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Quasimodo
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Postby Quasimodo » Tue, 25 Oct 2005 9:14 pm

bangladeshi_wonder wrote:
Quasimodo wrote:
don't jump on the bandwagon to chant "oh wow! what a beautiful country!"


You are spot on - we have no opinion of our own as opinions should never be duplicated.

Oh, hang on - by that reasoning anyone agreeing with you is just jumping on the bandwagon . . .


I'm so confused :???:


are you trying to make fun of me? well believe me in RACIST singapore it's not unusual for certain "races" to be made fun of....as sick as it may sound, I truly wish that tiny red dot were blown up by the terrorists (not just a part of it, the whole of it) because of the obviously inhumane way in which certain "races" or nationalities are always treated.



Me? Make fun of you? Never!!!! I mean, I am more of a newcomer than you, and I have only alienated half of the US contingent on this board, where you have managed to alienate everyone. Kudos, dude! =D>

(I'd go a bit light on the terrorist blowing up Singapore bit, however . . . )

As an afterthought - if Singapore is so miserable to you, why would you want to stay here? Honest question. If I were discriminated against where I live, I would be out like a bat out of hell.
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Postby benjamin » Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:34 am

bangladeshi_wonder wrote:
Quasimodo wrote:
don't jump on the bandwagon to chant "oh wow! what a beautiful country!"


You are spot on - we have no opinion of our own as opinions should never be duplicated.

Oh, hang on - by that reasoning anyone agreeing with you is just jumping on the bandwagon . . .


I'm so confused :???:


are you trying to make fun of me? well believe me in RACIST singapore it's not unusual for certain "races" to be made fun of....as sick as it may sound, I truly wish that tiny red dot were blown up by the terrorists (not just a part of it, the whole of it) because of the obviously inhumane way in which certain "races" or nationalities are always treated.


Hi bangladeshi_wonder, what a thing to say. Have you read about the bloggers who were being jailed for blogging racist remarks? That has been Singapore's position all these while. You have so much anger in you. So should we welcome you into Singapore or shouldn't we?
I am a Singaporean and this is my home. I for one do not judge your skin color or nationalities. We welcome anyone who wants Singapore as their home.
If you want the terrorist to bomb Singapore, you may be an undesirable figure to us. This is very upsetting. :(

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Postby Quasimodo » Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:48 am

benjamin - he is just looking for attention, let him have his say, humour him and in the end ignore him. Like a bad smell on clothes, all it needs is a wash and it's gone.
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Postby benjamin » Wed, 26 Oct 2005 2:26 pm

Quasimodo wrote:benjamin - he is just looking for attention, let him have his say, humour him and in the end ignore him. Like a bad smell on clothes, all it needs is a wash and it's gone.


Quasimodo, this thoughts of his is dangerous isn't it? Should we stop his thoughts at the door or pick up the pieces later?
This is what Singapore government did by taking swift action with the bloggers. To me, everyone is welcome to my country to set up home even if it is just for a few years and that include you Quasimodo :) .

Everyone adds value to this country no matter you are a construction worker or an investor. :)

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Postby Quasimodo » Wed, 26 Oct 2005 7:34 pm

benjamin wrote:
Quasimodo wrote:benjamin - he is just looking for attention, let him have his say, humour him and in the end ignore him. Like a bad smell on clothes, all it needs is a wash and it's gone.


Quasimodo, this thoughts of his is dangerous isn't it? Should we stop his thoughts at the door or pick up the pieces later?
This is what Singapore government did by taking swift action with the bloggers. To me, everyone is welcome to my country to set up home even if it is just for a few years and that include you Quasimodo :) .

Everyone adds value to this country no matter you are a construction worker or an investor. :)


Including me? Aw shucks . . . O:) Been here 5 years and love it!!!

It's difficult to differentiate between someone who is upset and says something stupid, like our friend here, and those that have serious gripes which pass the grumbling stakes and enter the more physical stage.

I also wouldn't want to be Bangla-Deshi in Singapore, as we know that darker skin colour does have its drawbacks, in terms of how people treat you, your job options and many more things (of course Singapore is not alone in this at all)

I fully understand your position and endorse it, as one of the lovely facets of Singapore is the safety we all enjoy - as well as the freedom to do pretty much anything we did at home as well.

Let's not let some nutjobs make this place more restrictive.
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Postby benjamin » Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:26 pm

Yes, I agree with you that every country has the same problem. :( A part of our Singapore pledge is "...regardless of race, language or religion..". We have been instilled since young about this. :) During the tsunami, the Indian fellow who washed my car, I gave him $50 :oops: for him to send home. His grandma passed away in the unfortunate event.

And yes, Singapore is a boring and restrictive place, no doubt about it. :D
Also if you notice, we are not that into politics hahaha... :D

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Postby Quasimodo » Thu, 27 Oct 2005 9:31 am

Yet I do not ask myself why I like it here so much, no need to, just enjoy the lifestyle we would not be able to replicate at home.

Given a one-on-one Singapore has fewer negative aspects than the places I have lived previously - although I do miss the political discussions - here it's a matter of PAP - ok . . . White clothes - ok. . . LKY - Ok. . . . LeeSL - ok . . .
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Postby benjamin » Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:13 am

Quasimodo wrote:Yet I do not ask myself why I like it here so much, no need to, just enjoy the lifestyle we would not be able to replicate at home.

Given a one-on-one Singapore has fewer negative aspects than the places I have lived previously - although I do miss the political discussions - here it's a matter of PAP - ok . . . White clothes - ok. . . LKY - Ok. . . . LeeSL - ok . . .


For Singaporean here, we don't waste time discussing politics. We decide once every 4 years :) That is how much most of us are bothered about politics.

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Postby hammer » Sat, 29 Oct 2005 5:51 pm

Well we have only been here for a few months, but we have found a lot to like about this place. I think its pretty clear that it will suit some people more than others. Its great if you have children as we do (well one very little one).

It has certainly made us wonder if we will ever want to go back to the UK, as the lifestyle advantages are significant. The fact that we don't have to go through the gloomy winter nights in the UK, the great food, the non- stop football on cable (a serious plus point there), the great countries around that are so close, cheap taxis, the lack of crime; there is a lot to make life here very pleasant.

All places have their downsides and Singapore is not exception. The fact that nobody, and I mean nobody, will ever let you change lanes when driving is so frustrating. I think that most Singaporeans would rather smash up their car than let you in :x . Why? Somebody please tell me, as its one of the only annoying aspects of this place. In the end, you learn to drive the same, but I don't like it one bit. All in all though, that's a minor complaint in an otherwise very pleasant country.

I think that the best tribute I can pay the place is that I do not long to go home or miss very much from home; other than the obvious - family and friends.

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Re: Singapore

Postby benjamin » Sat, 29 Oct 2005 6:51 pm

hammer wrote:Well we have only been here for a few months, but we have found a lot to like about this place. I think its pretty clear that it will suit some people more than others. Its great if you have children as we do (well one very little one).

It has certainly made us wonder if we will ever want to go back to the UK, as the lifestyle advantages are significant. The fact that we don't have to go through the gloomy winter nights in the UK, the great food, the non- stop football on cable (a serious plus point there), the great countries around that are so close, cheap taxis, the lack of crime; there is a lot to make life here very pleasant.

All places have their downsides and Singapore is not exception. The fact that nobody, and I mean nobody, will ever let you change lanes when driving is so frustrating. I think that most Singaporeans would rather smash up their car than let you in :x . Why? Somebody please tell me, as its one of the only annoying aspects of this place. In the end, you learn to drive the same, but I don't like it one bit. All in all though, that's a minor complaint in an otherwise very pleasant country.

I think that the best tribute I can pay the place is that I do not long to go home or miss very much from home; other than the obvious - family and friends.


I had long wanted to go overseas for a few years and experience the life and freedom as what many had said but never got down to it. :(

As for driving, do stay away from taxis. They will stop at any place so as to pickup fare. I agree it is frustrating to drive in Singapore. The high car population and the peak hour makes it worst.
During peak hour, I drive differently..I will look out for traffic when I need to change lane once confident that I can slot through without danger, signal for 1 second and change lane.

There are alot of queue cutter drivers in Singapore. They do not like to queue up. So I don't give way to these people..but with a friendly wave I give him the benefit of doubt.

Btw, if you are adventurous, try out the various local fare here. Hope you like them. :)

Pls update us if you can one year down the road if you still like your life in Singapore.

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Postby bangladeshi_wonder » Thu, 03 Nov 2005 7:25 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:hey calm down. people here are not faulting you for your race, but because of the things you say. you will find that racial slurs and prejudices are generally not very welcome here, but genuine issues and observations will be civilly discussed.



Although no one directly faulted me for my "race", what they said did have such an undertone.

as far as prejudices not being welcome in singapore... from talkingcock.com (considering how singapore lacks freedom of speech/expression, this tells you a lot about the singaporeans' racist attitudes)...

BANGLA (Contributed by Andrew Yong)
Racist abbreviation of "Bangladashi."


http://www.talkingcock.com/html/lexec.php?op=LexView&lexicon=lexicon&alpha=B&page=1


I'm pretty certain all of you heard this slur before, used in a derogatory manner, more than once during your stay in Singapore; so you know it's not a figment of my imagination.



k1w1 wrote:Just wondering, Bangladeshi Wonder, where do you think things might be better for you?

It's certainly not perfect here, but I am realistic enough (I think) to know that home (NZ) is certainly no better - for me anyway. This is one little island I will be happy to call home for a wee while yet.


For your first question, it's not DIRECTLY relevant to this discussion. This discussion centres around singapore and not somewhere else. I just injected a few contrarian ideas to this otherwise bland discussion. Most forumers are apparently of the opinion that singapore is heaven on earth while I merely pointed out that the same place, with the same peoples occupying it, is NOT quite as great if you happen to belong to some "undesired" group, say some undesired "nation" or "religion" or "race" or something along that line.


Since you brought it up k1w1, is there anything remotely resembling a racial slur for people from Bangladesh in NZ? Is "Bangla" considered the worst of the worst slurs in NZ? I'd be glad to know if it exists over there. I'm pretty sure you'd be much better informed than myself on kiwi attitudes towards foreigners (which I suspect will be somewhat linear - as in either an attitude of disgust , or one of nonchalance or of admiration etc will exist and it will be the same for ALL foreigners. In singapore, certain foreigners are highly admired while others aren't even considered human, so the general attitude towards foreigners is not uniform, it varies greatly depending on who the foreigners are).



For the second part of your post, I don't think I need to make a comment as that's just YOUR opinions.

Besides what point is there of stating the obvious - it isn't perfect in singapore (obviously!) and it isn't anywhere else on earth either (again, obviously!).

No society is free of crimes and neither is singapore. BUT for MOST foreigners, isn't Singapore relatively crime-free? No one complains about crimes in Singapore. Similarly there are bound to be many places where the extent of overt (or even, covert) discrimination is much much lower than Singapore and other places where it's somewhat higher. Stating the obvious isn't of much use IMHO....esp. in this context.


This is one little island I will be happy to call home for a wee while yet.


Even if we were to ignore my comments as "foolish", wouldn't your own assertion above, that you won't like to stay in singapore for an extended period of time, tell us about how desirable, how great it is as a place to stay in?



I understand there are many foreign construction workers in Singapore, hailing from India, Bangladesh, Thailand and many other countries. But given that there are Singaporeans who are locally known as "Indians" no one will like to make the "Indians" the subject of ridicule as it may lead to racial riots. Given the racist inclinations of the Singaporeans, they'd much rather deride a different "race" of workers and consequently the one country that they all agreed upon to deride is Bangladesh.

While given the myopic local viewpoint, this is perfectly reasonable no society that wants to avoid the label "racist" will brook such nonsense in the first place. Afterall, for the singaporeans, Bangladesh is a poor country. There isn't exactly a sizable minority of Bangladeshis in Singapore who call it their homes and the cultural and racial differences from a Singaporean either of Chinese or Malay descent is so great that Bangladeshis seem to be the perfect scapegoat for ALL things alien and wicked/troublesome.

Basically that's why they think it's fun to consider a certain nation to be below themselves, as I myself often noticed during my interaction with many Singaporeans. Funnily enough, foreigners from neighbouring countries aren't much better in Singapore. Malaysians, Indonesians and many Indians (from India) are of the same ilk.

While it may surprise many of you, the LEAST racist people turned out to be foreign white/Caucasians, who in Singapore are generally perceived to be the greatest race (as in, they are generally respected the most and held in high esteem) by the majority of its inhabitants, whether they be local singaporeans, or foreigners from neighbouring countries or from India, China or many other countries.

As it turns out, there have been many genuine friends I made who were white. But not even ONE singaporean/chinese/indian could I trust because of the (same good old reason) attitudes of condescension.

Try to think about it, why did no singaporean/chinese/indian/malaysian or other asians find me suitable as a friend/equal (not just asians, any nonwhites) while white persons of european descent more often than not did?

I can't ascribe it to my attitude, to my lack of understanding of their cultures or even my nationality. It just seems plainly obvious that only a certain group of peoples hold the least amount of bias, in general, relative to other chinese/malay/indian/malaysian/PRC/korean/japanese/etc etc ethnicities.



I'm just worried that stating the obvious (that whites, those people of european descent, are generally highly regarded by all nonwhites IN singapore) may lead to censorship. But it isn't my intention to deride or glorify any "races".

I'm just curious as to why only a minority of inhabitants in Singapore will display favourable attitudes towards myself while a majority, in fact, ALL of the local singaporeans, the foreigners from china, india, malaysia, indonesia, brunei, thailand, korea, japan, vietnam etc did not.


I'm eager to know WHY the friendly people came from ONLY among those of european descent. Mind you, not ALL caucasians were friendly and nor was I towards them. And that's what I consider perfectly natural.

What's unnatural is that americans (just an example, other foreigners of chinese, african, or japanese descent were alike) who're NOT white behaved in exactly the same manner as the nonwhite local or foreign population in singapore.

Perhaps to all those ultra pro-singapore fanatics, it just happens that a LOT of white guys and I have an attitude problem. The rest of the people in Singapore, like the chinese, malays, indians, malaysians, koreans, americans of chinese, korean or african, etc descent when it comes to dealing with "snobs" like myself show me the appropriate respect.

I just wonder how many such ultra pro-singapore fanatics are out there.

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Postby bangladeshi_wonder » Thu, 03 Nov 2005 7:26 pm

Quasimodo wrote:Yet I do not ask myself why I like it here so much, no need to, just enjoy the lifestyle we would not be able to replicate at home.

Given a one-on-one Singapore has fewer negative aspects than the places I have lived previously - although I do miss the political discussions - here it's a matter of PAP - ok . . . White clothes - ok. . . LKY - Ok. . . . LeeSL - ok . . .


may I ask what your religion, ethnicity, langauge and nationality is? If possible, please state your gender and age too.

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Postby bangladeshi_wonder » Thu, 03 Nov 2005 7:33 pm

Quasimodo wrote:
Me? Make fun of you? Never!!!! I mean, I am more of a newcomer than you, and I have only alienated half of the US contingent on this board, where you have managed to alienate everyone. Kudos, dude! =D>

(I'd go a bit light on the terrorist blowing up Singapore bit, however . . . )

As an afterthought - if Singapore is so miserable to you, why would you want to stay here? Honest question. If I were discriminated against where I live, I would be out like a bat out of hell.



btw, I am not interested in engaging in meaningless bantering. As far as
"alienating" the posters on this board goes, I don't care a whole lot. I won't cringe from saying what I feel is right, correct or appropriate whether others like it or not.

For example, I won't (and can't) change my ethnicity if I'm in some chinese dominated area even if most of the chinese would hate me for it. If I feel what I'm doing, saying or am is what I need to do, say or be, so I shall.

About your afterthought, you're actually ASSUMING a lot more than you should. You don't know if I'm in Singapore, how long I would want to stay there if I actually was over there and when I did stay over there or EVEN why someone may or may not want to leave some place where he's discriminated against.

And it's not even all that important to our discussions. What this discussion is about is Singapore. I am just trying to provide a perspective that most of you not only lack, but never even thought could exist.

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Postby bangladeshi_wonder » Thu, 03 Nov 2005 7:44 pm

benjamin wrote:Hi bangladeshi_wonder, what a thing to say. Have you read about the bloggers who were being jailed for blogging racist remarks? That has been Singapore's position all these while. You have so much anger in you. So should we welcome you into Singapore or shouldn't we?
I am a Singaporean and this is my home. I for one do not judge your skin color or nationalities. We welcome anyone who wants Singapore as their home.
If you want the terrorist to bomb Singapore, you may be an undesirable figure to us. This is very upsetting. :(


You make me laugh. At the slightest hint of disadvantage to your own self, you cringe in fear to such an extent that you actually misread my post. Now if you don't mind doing a thought-exercise, imagine what it would be like if you were to be in a foreign land where ALL locals had attitudes that put you at a disadvantage.

I know the bloggers you're talking about made racist comments about Malays who're singaporeans. Even the most racist countries generally offer some kind of protection for its different racial groups, nothing surprising there if you ask me.

Did I see any one or anything that suggest most singaporeans don't hold Bangladeshis in contempt? not quite. Did I see anything to suggest that most singaporeans do hold bangladeshis in utmost contempt? Most certainly.



IF I really wanted singapore to be bombed, I wouldn't care about what some bored singaporeans may be discussing with other expats who are bored in tiny and boring singapore. That means, I wouldn't even be posting here in the first place since it requires you to register before you can make a post.

From your post it appears you're quite confused about what to write and that's probably because from your own comfort zone, you feel you're not the least bit racist and nor is any of your friends or family members, but you can't quite put aside the lingering thought of even having to reply to a "Bangla" in front of expats in order to save face.

I know "kiasu"ism isn't exclusive a chinese trait, but may I ask if you're Chinese?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 03 Nov 2005 7:50 pm

bangladeshi_wonder wrote:About your afterthought, you're actually ASSUMING a lot more than you should. You don't know if I'm in Singapore, how long I would want to stay there if I actually was over there and when I did stay over there or EVEN why someone may or may not want to leave some place where he's discriminated against.

And it's not even all that important to our discussions. What this discussion is about is Singapore. I am just trying to provide a perspective that most of you not only lack, but never even thought could exist.


Before you start shouting ASSUMING to other posters, if they are assuming you are in Singapore is would be a good assumption. Otherwise, you are 'assuming' all your perceptions are correct without having experienced a long term stay here on this island. Due to the level of your written word, I am going to also make an assumption that you are relatively well educated. This assumption being so, then either your attack on the poster was unwarrented or, heaven forbid, your whole argument is unwarrented due to being fueled only by hearsay evidence.

For the record, I am a minority married to a minority of a different race and have lived in Singapore for over 23 years.

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