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Time for change - one man one vote is dated

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banana
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Postby banana » Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:37 pm

Four legs good! Two legs better!
some signatures are more equal than others

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Carpe Diem
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Postby Carpe Diem » Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:00 pm

:???:
La vie est trop courte, profitons de chaque instant

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banana
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Postby banana » Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:07 pm

Quatre jambes bonnes! Deux jambes mieux!
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Carpe Diem
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Postby Carpe Diem » Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:12 pm

Despite translation I am still :???:
La vie est trop courte, profitons de chaque instant

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banana
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Postby banana » Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:38 pm

Not a fan of George Orwell huh?
some signatures are more equal than others

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Carpe Diem
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Postby Carpe Diem » Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:00 am

I read that book but it was such a long time ago... can't remember!
La vie est trop courte, profitons de chaque instant

T2K
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Postby T2K » Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:55 pm

"But when you abolish the social welfare system, the rich will become richer and the poor, poorer."

Why do you say that? I don't draw that conclusion at all, in fact quite the opposite. Without a guaranteed income, those on social welfare will be more motivated to work because they will have to. In many Western countries, we have families on their 4th generation of "public assistance". They've lost motivation to work, and just see it as perfectly natural and reasonable that they live off other people's labor. They see the check/cheque they get in the mail every month as their salary, as if they've done something to earn it.

With less taxes to support these people, companies and individuals can make the economy more active.

I guess it's an old argument - free market capitalism vs socialism.

Singapore has nearly no social welfare system as far as I can tell. Certainly nothing like the major Western nations. And the standard of living for the vast majority is very high. Why? They work hard. If a sales manager loses his job he knows that he might need to drive a taxi for a while to make ends meet.

There will ALWAYS be poor people. Just like there will always be people who fail the exam, don't get the joke, can't find a date, are unhappy with life, are lazy, etc. That's the bell curve, we can't make it go away. Making a system where others must support them is what I am opposed to. Not supporting them is the best way to help them.

I'm fine with helping children, the elderly, and the seriously ill. But, any able-bodied person between 18 and 65 - you should stand on your own two feet and take care of yourself and your responsibilities.

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Postby locallass » Fri, 21 Oct 2005 1:31 pm

T2K, we’re on the same page with regards to children, elderly etc and the need for able-bodied people to learn how to support themselves.

I’m bemused however that Singapore is held up as a good example. As a young girl, I’ve volunteered on various occasions at homes for the elderly, Spastic Associations and family centers for latchkey kids. I’ve seen first hand how little support is provided for these people, especially when public donations are sucked away from glamorous charities like NKF. These people have slipped through the cracks in our system because little or no provisions have been made for them.

Another point to highlight is that even though Singaporeans are affluent, many of them don’t feel a strong national identity. Polls held a few years back indicated that a large proportion would not hesitate to migrate for better economic opportunities abroad. A significant portion also indicated that they would rather leave the country than defend it against a foreign invasion. Such attitudes could be due to fact that we’re a young nation. But they could also highlight how it’s “every man for himself”

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 21 Oct 2005 2:10 pm

Ling2 wrote:Discrimination

one person dictatorship sounds good except 5 yrs is too long. I don't even give my managers that long to prove himself worthy. If you think the wise one should dictate (definately wiser than my managers) so, less than a year should be enough.

Power would never be given back to the people, because one revolution overthrown the govt. the next patch will change once they have power & wealth, their heart is no longer in the right place. History repeats itself again & again. Govt. is a joke.


I find this somewhat perplexing for someone who is a product of a virtual 30 year velvet-fisted dictatorship. I do agree that he was a benevolent dictator and did what he did for the sake of the country, and did it successfully at that. Can we assume you are a supporter of the local opposition? :?

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Fri, 21 Oct 2005 2:39 pm

T2K wrote:There will ALWAYS be poor people. Just like there will always be people who fail the exam, don't get the joke, can't find a date, are unhappy with life, are lazy, etc. That's the bell curve, we can't make it go away. Making a system where others must support them is what I am opposed to. Not supporting them is the best way to help them.

agreed, T2K. poverty is a relative term because of the bell curve. anyway the welfare system does not look to be sustainable in the long run. the US government has more or less admitted that it will not be able to honour its welfare obligations in the next few decades. socialism has imploded on itself. capitalism at this point seems the only viable option.

actually, just by looking around, the people who contribute most to education and the poor have been the rich. there is a trickle down effect that many fail to recognise. at the upper end of maslow's hierarchy, as part of self-actualisation, is the desire for significance. when you've got more money than you need, you start to think about giving back. hence i've long thought that capitalism, together with a strong civic consciousness where people willingly do their part for the needy, would be the utopian option.

so here's the paradox that i'm proposing. perhaps today we have too many poor and needy because we're not allowing enough people at the other end of the spectrum to get rich enough!

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Postby Shilo2010 » Fri, 21 Oct 2005 4:04 pm

Un educated does not necessarily mean un intelligent.
Low IQ to a certain degree also does not mean un intelligent.
There are various depths to intelligence not covered in formal IQ tests.
Is it not possible for a person with a low IQ to be in touch with who they are, what they are good at, and what they are not ? These strengths would usually be undocumented, gained through life experience and the particular persons pre disposition to think a little deeper by nature and understand his or her mind and place in the scheme of things.
I wonder how educated Gandhi or Nelson Mandela where ?
In saying that, as someone who I feel fits the above critera, I do believe that when 97% of the population vote one way on important issues and only 3% the other, the minority vote is usually either the freaks or the educated few, an issue I always consider

For what its worth.
Rhys.
:)


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