Question on education

[mysticalx]

Keep in mind most of these 'free' programs do not give an (internationally) recognised degree, on the contrary. Even the Swedish examples you give, issue a degree that is not even recognised in Sweden, so you may wonder what your 'free' course is worth besides 'learning a new culture'.

I suspect the mentioned 'universities' try to attract foreigners with these 'free' programs in order to compete with the universities which do have international status and standards.

I don’t know but it seems to me like you don’t think much of Scandinavian universities.

NUS is higher on the list of internationally reputed universities btw...

In fact I did my Bachelor’s degree in NUS. Actually I don’t really think much of university rankings. Most of the time they are rather biased… And I actually enjoyed my time at a Finnish university a lot more than NUS though don’t get me wrong, I had a great time in NUS as well!

Oh, and check the cost of living in countries like Sweden, Norway or Finland.

Just a silly example, but a cucumber in Norway does not go by price per piece or weight, but a price per part of a cucumber.

You'll be shocked...

Again, I never said it was cheap in Scandinavia. (Australia, US, UK etc ain’t cheap either btw) People don’t go there to study just because they don’t have to pay tuition fees. Scandinavia is a beautiful place and has a lot to offer. I have lived in Finland before and I know roughly what to expect. Would love to go back there again. And I also believe I managed my expenses pretty well – about 400 Euros (probably less) per month believe it or not, partly because I was there as a student and students get cheaper housing. And oh yeah…I tried not to drink too much either! Alcohol is EXPENSIVE!

No hawkercentres either.

Yeah I know.

By the way, I must make it clear that I’m neither the OP nor the ‘guest’ except for that last post whereby I got logged out by the system when posting but I came back on and mentioned that it was me. It is hard to tell who you’re referring to sometimes…

[Guest]

Mysticalx,

Congratulation for being a smart shopper. You went to the place that offer the best value-for-money in terms of education. Congratulation for venturing into new horizons. And I am sure you did not end up with S$ 100 000 in debts.

It seems to me that Singaporeans are smart shoppers when it comes to buy a chilli crab 1 dollar cheaper, but not when it comes to education.

Eric, even if the cost of living is 1 or 20, even 30 % higher in Sweden or Norway than in the US, this is still a much better deal that US education.

And if you look at academic results, the nordic universities obtains the best result, whatever criteria is being used (e.g. academic productivity, publication output, student knowledge and literacy and so on)

[Guest]

Can your forward this thread to anyone willing to study overseas ?

[Guest]

mysticalx

If I were a prospective employer, I would hire you.
You managed to find the best value-for-money education.

Congratulations !

[mysticalx]

*Blush* Thanks for the compliment.

[Vaucluse]

Found it funny how some people think that we're out to get 'free' education. We still pay for living expenses etc and most of the foreign students in these universities come from everywhere around the world. You'll see many South Americans, Chinese, Iranians, Africans, not that many south-east asians just yet (quite a number of Indonesians though) but getting there! Not all foreigners are loaded and they too have to struggle to making a living there by working part time or something. Some of them come from countries where their education system is not very well recognized so this comes as an opportunity to get a good education.

, funny because the original question pertains to where one can get free education in Europe . . .

Yes, you pay for living expenses - as you would were you to pay fees - would this alone qulify you to receive free education - please explain.
Also, your sentences about struggling to make a living - please explain how that is relevant to your edcation being paid for by someone else tax Euros.

The fact remains that your 'free' studies are being financed by someone, the local taxpayer, who gets no benefit from you receiving free education. Another 'victim' is the student whose place is taken by foreign students on their quest for free education - irrespective if you have higher marks than he/she - this is their country and they deserve, first and foremost, to receive an education where they, their parents etc . . . have paid taxes to build the infrastructure of the state - which includes education.

[Disillusioned]

Vaucluse,
Its really sad to see you , from a developed country, begrudging students from poorer countries the opportunity to study in countries who can afford to give free education.
Sad to know you are all the time feeling this 'hate' in you. I had thought you were a very nice person

[Guest]

"The fact remains that your 'free' studies are being financed by someone, the local taxpayer, who gets no benefit from you receiving free education"

Too much hate in your message.

There are indirect long-term benefits in terms of cultural, intellectual and economic influence.

[mysticalx]

I must stress that there are admission quotas, not any tom, dick and harry are accepted into these universities. Singapore, for one, has benefited a lot from pulling in many of the best students from its neighboring countries by giving away scholarships and tuition grants. You even get students from places like New Zealand coming to NUS to study these days. And no, they are not exchange students but real full-time students! With good students, you also raise the standards of your university. And by encouraging diversity, you find discussions more productive and this is especially important for an institution of higher learning. Most students who go there come from developing countries and without some form of subsidy, would never dream of going to Scandinavia, Europe or many other places for that matter for further studies. Do you know that Singapore too is considered a rather expensive option for students coming from less developed countries?

Vaucluse,
For all your “worldliness”

[dot dot dot]

[quote="mysticalx"]
Vaucluse,
For all your “worldliness”

[mysticalx]

I don’t think there’s really a need to repeat myself or what many of the other posters have already mentioned. There are definitely benefits of taking in foreign students. Call this a sort of “investment”

[Non Mat salleh]

Eric and Vaucluse,
Your impression of asians are certainly not very flattering. I wonder what made you both come to Singapore then if you find us so money grabbing?
Do you realise that expatriates in Singapore earn much more than locals ? Do we begrudge you all for taking away our job opportunities? NO! In fact we welcome you all to our country so that we may learn to improve our lot.
I'm sure the rest of the Mat Sallehs here are not as condescending as both of you towards us asians....

[Another Mat Salleh]

Thanks Mat Salleh

With all the nonsense going around here, someone should contact the ISD regarding individuals starting racial hostility towards Asians. Also, have the posters already forgotten the cases where 2 Singaporeans were jailed recently for inciting racial hatred? Think about how it would turn out for foreigners who try to stir up racial hatred towards the Asian population.

I suggest the individuals concerned (registered frequent posters) revist their old posts and rethink what they post in future, lest this site be monitored by the Singapore authorities.

[CloseEncounter]

You can't do that! You can't threaten everybody with this sedition act just because they say something you rather not hear or don't agree with.
If you're not careful, almost everyone will end up in Changi jail!
How about growing up and learning to accept positive criticism... hmmm ....Another Mat Salleh (me thinks you're a Singaporean)

[Carpe Diem]

Interesting (?) how, again, this kind of discussion derives to personal fighting...

In an attempt to cool down the debate and hopefully get everybody talking about the topic again, I will try to summarize the different points of view...

mysticalx and others claim that there are benefits for a country of taking in foreign students for 'free'. This is a sort of 'investment' by these governments.

Eric and Vaucluse, on the other hand, explained that it is at the expenses of local taxpayers that foreign students get their 'free' studies.

Indeed both are right.

mysticalx is talking about how the money is spent, and sure, it can bring diversity in the university, potential good employees in the country, and certainly has -on the long run- a positive impact of the image of the said country overseas.

Eric and Vaucluse are discussing about where the money comes from. A government must raise taxes before spending that money. And taxes are paid by local individuals. In Europe, tax levels are very high. And every individual is interested to know where their money goes, as they would like to see some benefit for them. So, like it or not, the opinion expressed by these gentlemen is representative of what you would have for answer if you discussed the subject with people back there.

Until it came to personal attacks, I found this discussion quite interesting, because it gave an opportunity for people from different countries of origin to explain, and hopefully also understand, what is the perception on the other side.

Again, my intention was to cool down the debate. If I have made anybody upset -most probably- let's continue the fight!

(but without me )