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Singapore Citizenship for Baby?

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Langsat

Singapore Citizenship for Baby?

Postby Langsat » Sat, 10 Sep 2005 5:42 am

Can anyone help with the following query?
I'm Singaporean with a British husband. We are planning on moving back to Singapore from the UK. As I am pregnant and will probably have the baby in Singapore, I would like to know if the child will be a Singaporean citizen by birth? Perhaps I have been looking at all the wrong websites but I can't find any information on the citizenship rights of locally born offspring of Singaporean women with foreign husbands. (Lots about the offspring of Singaporean men though...)

Obviously we are concerned about what to do if the baby is a boy and all that good stuff about National Service...

Many thanks.

Guest

Re: Singapore Citizenship for Baby?

Postby Guest » Sat, 10 Sep 2005 8:45 pm

The baby will be Singaporean by birth.

If you're concerned about NS, then you should have the baby in the UK and then you can apply for PR for him. At least with PR, when your son reaches NS going age, he can just pack up and go if he doesn't want to do NS. He can't do that if he's a citizen as the govt will put restrictions on the validity period of his passport.

langsat

Re: Singapore Citizenship for Baby?

Postby langsat » Sat, 10 Sep 2005 9:49 pm

Anonymous wrote:The baby will be Singaporean by birth.

If you're concerned about NS, then you should have the baby in the UK and then you can apply for PR for him. At least with PR, when your son reaches NS going age, he can just pack up and go if he doesn't want to do NS. He can't do that if he's a citizen as the govt will put restrictions on the validity period of his passport.


Thank you for the reply.

We are still wondering though:

If baby is born in Singapore, we will apply for British citizenship for him. So baby will have both Singaporean AND British passports. Can he not just pack up and leave when he reaches NS age as he could leave on his British passport, which will not have the restrictions that his Singapore passport will have?

Thereafter, we understand that he may not be able to live in Singapore but would he still be able to travel to and from Singapore on his British passport, to visit family for eg.?

I hope this further query makes some sense!

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:10 pm

Then it would make no difference whether he's born in Singapore or the UK. Your son would have to pick at the age of 23 which nationality he wishes to keep as dual-nationality is not allowed at this point in time. If he wants to pack up and leave before he can renounce then there should not be a problem with NS.

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:14 pm

Also, I don't see why he needs both passports. A baby will almost certainly need to go with one of his parent's passport as a dependant while travelling, and when he gets older he can just apply for a British passport to avoid complication - there is no need to have a separate passport in Singapore until 15 years of age anyways. Why increase your troubles just because you can apply for two passports? It's just a travel document. Your rights come with your residency status, not the passport. Even if you don't use the Singapore passport, he will still be summoned to do NS if he's still a Singaporean citizen. Those are two separate issues. So if he leaves he will still be breaking the law, so to speak, or have to renounce by legal requirement.

langsat

Postby langsat » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 3:41 am

Anonymous wrote:Also, I don't see why he needs both passports. A baby will almost certainly need to go with one of his parent's passport as a dependant while travelling, and when he gets older he can just apply for a British passport to avoid complication - there is no need to have a separate passport in Singapore until 15 years of age anyways. Why increase your troubles just because you can apply for two passports? It's just a travel document. Your rights come with your residency status, not the passport. Even if you don't use the Singapore passport, he will still be summoned to do NS if he's still a Singaporean citizen. Those are two separate issues. So if he leaves he will still be breaking the law, so to speak, or have to renounce by legal requirement.


Thank you for your reply.
Yes, we know that he will be breaking the law if he does a runner when he gets to NS age. However, we were wondering if he could nonetheless still enter Singapore on a British passport after even though he has become persona non grata. Are passport control systems there sophiscated enough to know that he is trying to enter Singapore on a different passport? Perhaps it is better just not to risk it!

About holding two passports:
Holding a British passport is very important as it proves citizenship as the British do not issue national identity cards. Hence our concern that any child of ours will have a British passport, especially if we are abroad. Also just to clear up another misconception: British minors are no longer permitted to travel on their parents passports. They must hold their own passports. Our two older children have their own, the older one got his when he was three months old.

Guest

Postby Guest » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 10:07 am

I was talking about having no need to have a Singaporean passport. I'm sure you are more familiar with the British system than I am seeing you live there. I'm just not sure why your child also needs a Singaporean passport. If you renounce there is no problem, as I've said. But being a runner, that's a different story. He will be blacklisted. Singapore has a very sophisticated computer system. This country is small enough to have surveillance over everyone.

Guest

Postby Guest » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 10:14 am

I reread my post before yours and I was just talking about having two passports in general, sorry about the confusion. If your child needs a British passport, you have to get one obviously. You can travel with just one passport. Don't try to play the system, just do everything by the book and renounce as and when it's the proper time. They can't fault you for it. You just lose the rights that come with a Singaporean citizen but at that time your child(ren) would presumably have milked it for all its worth - middle-class adults don't really get many benefits here so it's not much of a loss. You should probably read the Singapore Constitution. There's a copy on the web somewhere.

Guest

Postby Guest » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:49 pm

The simpliest thing to do to keep your life UNCOMPLICATED in the future is to NOT give birth in Singapore and never sign any paper that would give your child citizenship through decendancy laws. Come after the baby is born then if it is a boy he will be free to come and go when he is old enough. Why make your life tricky when it doesn't need to be. In the long run it will be worth waiting a few months.

Guest

Postby Guest » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 1:30 pm

If I were you I wouldn't apply for citizenship through descendancy. It's not worth it. If you're just back for a short time, maybe apply for PR for your kids so they can enjoy some education benefits. Public school isn't expensive (there is no private schooling until high school btw) even if you don't have PR status. Otherwise you're stuck with the NS if you have a boy. If you truly feel that you only want UK citizenship, perhaps you shouldn't come back at all. It's more difficult for your kids to assimilate into this culture and then have to give it up again when they're older. I'm just not sure why you feel that it's important to have both and then complicate your life further.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 4:13 pm

This is funny as hell. Nobody will register with their replies which more or less proves everybody is afraid of the Government here. What a bunch of wimps.

Guest

Postby Guest » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 4:27 pm

Your point?

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Postby Carpe Diem » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 4:48 pm

Anonymous wrote:Your point?


His point was: What a bunch of wimps.

Well that's what I understood.
La vie est trop courte, profitons de chaque instant

Guest

Postby Guest » Sun, 11 Sep 2005 5:39 pm

Even if you register it's still anonymous. Or rather, even if you don't register your IP can still be logged. What's the difference? There is very good reason to be afraid of the government. People who aren't careful are being very very stupid. So I really don't see the point.

SansHeadaches

Postby SansHeadaches » Mon, 12 Sep 2005 2:14 pm

To OP: In summary, don't ever make your offspring a Singaporean. It just ain't worth the trouble you and your offspring will have to go to especially if your kid is a male. If you must come back to Singapore, just apply for a PR for your kid. Take note that even then, the authorities will try to convince you to register the kid as a Singaporean vs becoming a PR but at least in that situation you have a choice. If you give birth in Singapore, they're gonna force the Singapore citizenship down your baby's throat, irrespective whether you agree to it or not. Think about it. Is it worth making your offspring a citizen of such a country ?


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