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So much falseness in Singapore 8 Aug 05....

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Postby dot dot dot » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 1:00 pm

Those 4 people should run for president in coming 'elections'... :mrgreen:

Eric

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 1:07 pm

Anonymous wrote:
WIMH, this is why the man in the street is scared. They sent out Riot Police for four people (2 men & 2 women). And the government wants the people to speak up? 4 people consitute a Riot? :mrgreen:


ok, that would explain why i am not scared. i'm not a man! :lol:

seriously, i know it's hard to understand given that demonstrations and protests are common, accepted, perhaps even lauded, in the US and Europe. i'm sure the police were called in not because of any real danger posed but as a pre-emptive measure, perhaps to send a signal to others thinking of doing the same, and probably to prevent people from gathering around and forming a crowd forming in front of a government building which would be disruptive to normal operations.

i'm not defending the action, just trying to explain the thinking behind it. personally i think peaceful demonstrations are fine and quite entertaining even. the downside would be disruption of traffic etc that happens quite often in the UK.

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Postby k1w1 » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 1:08 pm

WIMH

There is a guy that sleeps in the park near our house. There is another guy that camps near the 7-11 rubbish bin. There is poverty here. Saying that there are no homeless people is not really true. I consider a three-room flat with 6 people in it, living in poverty too. OK, they're not living like the poor people in China, Thailand or India perhaps, but relatively speaking it's poverty. Overcrowding is a very serious issue.

And if charities are supposed to help these people, who is helping the charities? They still need premises, phone lines and even vehicles to deliver food or assistance.

I agree with most of your points, and I don't have any answers, but I think these issues have been overly-simplified.

Also, I think that anyone in their 60's and 70's still working (hen they would rather not), to be living in poverty too. Sounds like CPF is not doing much of a job at providing retirement funds for people either.

New Zealand has been a classic case of "what not to do with your welfare system". Retired pensioners who have paid 33% of their taxes their whole working lives are having their pensions cut, their houses sold to pay for their care, and their medical bills hiked up. As sms said, when people get to this age, it's very unfair to go and move the goalposts.

I think when you're young, healthy and in the prime of your life (working life or otherwise), it's very easy to ignore the fact that someday you may not be able to do what you are doing now. I'm guilty of the same thing, beign a young'n myself. The thought of living with my kids in my old age really gives the sh!ts though... although, the thought of my own mother living with me is far worse... :wink:

BTW, to the OP, I did notice the faces of people at the NDP. I agree and I had thought too that the PM looked as though he was stifling a yawn a couple of times.

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Re: So much falseness in Singapore 8 Aug 05....

Postby comdpa » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 2:04 pm

60 Minutes,

This is brilliant stuff...

60 minutes wrote:So much falseness in Singapore 8 Aug 05

Like most local media propaganda, NDP website depicts Singaporeans as vibrant, jovial, cheerful and very proud of celebrating their national day.

http://www.ndp.org.sg

NDP is supposed to be made for the citizens to make them feel proud, happy and patriotic for living in their homeland.

But it is very strange, because every year whenever I watch NDP on television, I can never feel the spirit nor the happiness among the spectator's behaviour or faces.

Especially last year's NDP when the camera does a continuous sweep of thousands of spectators in close-up views, one can only see sad, sour, stressed, sarcastic, nonchalant faces all around. Some even have a look as if they had just lost a huge amount betting lotteries.

Smiling faces comes mainly from the celebrities. Even most performers showed a stressed, zombie look.

Most eerie and shameful part is during one of the video sweeping segment, I can only see ONE genuinely cheerful person - A Caucasian women frantically waving her flag so enthusiastically as if Singapore is her homeland. Goodness gracious.

I am sure many of you who watched the show have noticed this as well. For those who have recorded the show and don’t believe what I say can watch it again. Open your eyes, do not be blind.

I felt so sick and ashamed that we need a foreigner, to demonstrate to us what is true pride and joy for the country.

Why is everything so sad, stressed and fakey in Singapore?

Fakey infrastructures with lack of social grace and zombie souls inside, fakey faces on NKF shows, fakey edited smiles on posters and media propagandas to mask the truth of sadness among citizens in Singapore.

One can only think of the main reason is that we can lose our rice bowls anytime, as we have no true social security system and unemployment benefits.

It became more overwhelming since the 1990s when globalisation injected western organisation's culture and thinking into our country that emphasizes on performance and higher degree of multi-tasking. But it is a double-edged sword.

While all these are supposedly bringing more creativity, technology, innovation and entrepreneurial spirits into Singapore, a major problem was overlooked.

The westerners, besides having a dynamic society with cultures that centers on humans rights, freedom and social grace, one main reason they can afford all these antics is because they have unemployment insurance which one can qualify after working for a few years (not applicable to beggars of course, lol). They can afford to word hard in dynamic fashion, protest, argue and push through their ideas while not having to worry that they will starve for the coming months, whereas MAS vehemently banned any such form of insurance. From what I know, the closest insurance scheme that MAS has allowed till now is the pathetic Disability Income, whereby you must satisfy the strict criteria of disability as stipulated in the contract in other to qualify to the income benefits.

Hence, if you are unemployed in Singapore, you must chop off both legs to get some income for instance.

When I was in France for instance, people are so genuinely cheerful and happy, I remembered walking into any pubs in shy and wary manner, but only to see relaxed, friendly faces and anyone can just chat up with you and become your friend with genuine sincerity.

Citizens there lean towards not comparing material achievements, or wanting to compete or win your fellow citizens in a hostile manner, unlike Singapore, whereby a staring incident end up in fights.

On the other hand, even in big stressful cities like New York, yes they are very competitive, but they do not have that over-worrying mentality like pitiful S'poreans because they always have a cushion to fall on, at least they do not starve immediately.

In Singapore, once you are unemployed, you get into overdraft debts immediately. Is this a new democratic theory that our government has formulated to resolve unemployment?

Why is our government always so vague and evasive when answering this issue?

Why must we only get the same old answer that ‘Singapore has no natural resources’ or reply like those from our deputy PM Dr. Tony Tan who says that if such schemes are implemented, he will ‘resign tomorrow’ to get the benefits and end the arguments once and for all.

Is this the way how a senior government minister should reply to a crucial issue? Is there no way that he could have been more sensitive and sincere in his reply?

With such a Pro-state and hostile environment, breadwinners and workers must constantly worry about office politics and wary of anyone who might snatch their rice bowls in the working place.

In theory, this works very well. There is no free lunch, no man is an island, as mentioned by LKY. I do agree to a certain extent of not pampering the citizens so that they can work hard to fend off for themselves, to teach someone to learn how to fish is better than spoon-feeding and all that.

But in reality, we can look around among the commoners, among ourselves, friends and relatives, we can clearly see the huge numbers of citizens who are out of jobs for months of years despite trying very hard to find one but to no avail.

It is only in the light of all these can one then fully understand the reasons behind the sadness, sarcastic and scowling, self-righteous faces you can see everywhere on the streets.

I know that once the authorities read this, they might consider editing the media once again.

It is so strange that what one can only see from the media is either those elite’s success stories, or those extremely rare and tragic instances of poor or sick folks.

Letting people aware of the poorest citizen’s plight is certainly admirable so that we will not take things for granted.

But what happened to the rest of the working commoners, whose real-life problems seemed to have been cleverly swept under the carpet?

It’s such an irony when these people are the majority that voted earnestly for the ruling party, hoping that they will one day solve their problems.

Of course I am aware that Pap has done much to improve Singaporean’s standard of living and the economy and so forth.

But for so many years, what have they done so far to solve this problem? In fact the situation is getting worse.

As our salaries get more stagnant with rising costs, more couples give birth to lesser children or none at all.

To solve the problem on the push for towards achieving critical mass in population to support globalisation, more foreign talents are imported which , while being effective in solving immediate needs, suppressed the wages further too.

With lower salaries, it gives rise to more citizens who either delay marriage or have even lesser children. Then here comes more foreign talents again to solve the problem - creating a vicious cycle.

Probably in the year 2100, the only surviving humans in Singapore are either the elites, foreign workers, PRs and those who have converted their citizenships while the rest of the original groups of Singaporeans have either migrated or passed away.

But is this the right thing to do? So please do not tell me that our government is so entrapped in their policies that they must make citizens unhappy in order to be ‘happy’? For God’s sake, it even bothers on sinfulness. I seriously have no idea why is the government doing this to us.

I know that if the government were to read my statements, they will feel offended and throw it aside as a nuisance.

But for once, I hope they can just shove their pride in high pedestals aside, and learn from Malaysia’s PM Abdullah who mentioned last year that government leaders should take citizen’s curse as a form of blessing and should not always think they are right. Although a bit extreme, there is certainly an underlying truth in his statements.

But if our government wants to be blind to such issues, then I have nothing to say except to be resigned to my fate and more citizens will suffer.

I just hope that our government will seriously consider this reality and put forth sincere efforts to resolve this crucial problem.

Hence, may I borrow a sentence from our ruling party MP who denies any climate of fear here: ‘Get real, this is Singapore’, precisely, lets get real and face the real truth behind all the glittery lights

Is this a tragedy that must continue forever till the day we die?

NON-SCHOLAR ORDINARY FOLK

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 6:05 pm

k1w1 wrote:WIMH

There is a guy that sleeps in the park near our house. There is another guy that camps near the 7-11 rubbish bin. There is poverty here. Saying that there are no homeless people is not really true. I consider a three-room flat with 6 people in it, living in poverty too. OK, they're not living like the poor people in China, Thailand or India perhaps, but relatively speaking it's poverty. Overcrowding is a very serious issue.
...
I agree with most of your points, and I don't have any answers, but I think these issues have been overly-simplified.
....
I think when you're young, healthy and in the prime of your life (working life or otherwise), it's very easy to ignore the fact that someday you may not be able to do what you are doing now. I'm guilty of the same thing, beign a young'n myself.


i don't think a safety net means that we should eradicate poverty. of course that would be nice, but there will always be poor people because as you implied, poverty is relative. i define a safety net as making sure nobody starves or freezes to death, that everyone has access to at least food and shelter. survival, not prosperity, is the aim of a safety net.

those guys sleeping in the park and near the dustbin... i don't know their reasons and whether they are there for months on end or if their wives threw them out for the night... but if they were really homeless then if they or you went to the authorities i daresay something will be done for them.

and i don't speak for all young people, and again youth is relative... i'm not that young by some yardsticks... but i do not ignore the reality that someday i will not be as quick, as strong, as able, as in demand as i am now. in fact i think about that reality every single day and am working on my own safety net and prosperity, to ensure that when that day comes i am provided for. and not by my government or my employer or even my husband. i will make sure that i provide for myself.

like i said, you don't have to agree with me. to each his own. this is my way of dealing with economic reality. it boils down to personal values. personal choices. just don't blame anyone else for your choice. if you chose to trust a government to provide for your needs, and it didn't, it was your choice to entrust your future to something you had no control over. i'll probably get blasted for this i guess. maybe i'm just too independent minded. but i've learnt that you've got to stand on your own two feet. especially in the coming years, given the way the world is going.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 12 Aug 2005 11:36 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:... in fact i think about that reality every single day and am working on my own safety net and prosperity, to ensure that when that day comes i am provided for. and not by my government or my employer or even my husband. i will make sure that i provide for myself.


WIMH, I am curious just what you are doing that is so foolproof and ironclad that you can say right now you are ensuring that you will be provided for.

It obviously isn't stocks & bonds, currency, property, gold or other precious metals. We have all seen these go bust in our lifetimes. Somehow, I feel your comments, while meant with sincerity, ring hollow to me. Again, maybe you are young enough to not remember black friday, black monday, the Japanese property market crash and even the Singapore property Market crash of 98-99. Maybe you can't remember when the Singapore dollar was $2.27 to the US$ like it was when I arrived here in '82. Maybe you don't remember when the gold bullion toped 800 USD/ounce then crashed to 287/ounce. There are no certainties.....I hope you will be prepared or spared. What's more likely, however, is you will end up with the attitude like I have because of what I have said has all happened at some point or another during my Adult lifetime and may well happen again during the rest of yours. Sometimes it is good to not to be so idealist but to be a little more realistic. My generation was THE generation (the 60's) of idealists for all the good it eventually did us.

cool runnings,

sms

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sat, 13 Aug 2005 7:30 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:WIMH, I am curious just what you are doing that is so foolproof and ironclad that you can say right now you are ensuring that you will be provided for.

It obviously isn't stocks & bonds, currency, property, gold or other precious metals. We have all seen these go bust in our lifetimes. Somehow, I feel your comments, while meant with sincerity, ring hollow

sms


SMS, nothing in this world is foolproof and ironclad. it's also not always about money. yes that is important and is part of my plans. but if i were to lose everything i want to know that i will be able to start from scratch if i have to. so it's about building an attitude and skill set, not just an investment portfolio or a business empire.

all the facts you pointed out are valid. all i'm saying is that i will not depend on the government to feed my in my old age. it's ok if my comments ring hollow to you. and i don't need to give a blow-by-blow account of what i do, because it's not your approval or not that matters in the end, it's whether or not it works, and that only time will tell.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 13 Aug 2005 9:32 am

Wind In My Hair wrote:SMS, nothing in this world is foolproof and ironclad. it's also not always about money. yes that is important and is part of my plans. but if i were to lose everything i want to know that i will be able to start from scratch if i have to. so it's about building an attitude and skill set, not just an investment portfolio or a business empire.

all the facts you pointed out are valid. all i'm saying is that i will not depend on the government to feed my in my old age. it's ok if my comments ring hollow to you. and i don't need to give a blow-by-blow account of what i do, because it's not your approval or not that matters in the end, it's whether or not it works, and that only time will tell.


Agreed. :wink: (please do not take this personally :( - it's only a discussion) Unfortunately, all my acquired skillsets have become redundant in recent years, that's why after 56 years I went back to school as well. But unfortunately, even with updated qualifications I'm still 58 and can't get to the interview stage to sell myself due that chronological fact of people feeling the we are past our "use by date" :shock: .

cool runnings.....

sms

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Postby dot dot dot » Sat, 13 Aug 2005 12:00 pm

Let me get this clear: you are back into a job again, right sms?

Just interested....

Eric

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Postby LOS » Sat, 13 Aug 2005 1:48 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Wind In My Hair wrote:SMS, nothing in this world is foolproof and ironclad. it's also not always about money. yes that is important and is part of my plans. but if i were to lose everything i want to know that i will be able to start from scratch if i have to. so it's about building an attitude and skill set, not just an investment portfolio or a business empire.

all the facts you pointed out are valid. all i'm saying is that i will not depend on the government to feed my in my old age. it's ok if my comments ring hollow to you. and i don't need to give a blow-by-blow account of what i do, because it's not your approval or not that matters in the end, it's whether or not it works, and that only time will tell.


Agreed. :wink: (please do not take this personally :( - it's only a discussion) Unfortunately, all my acquired skillsets have become redundant in recent years, that's why after 56 years I went back to school as well. But unfortunately, even with updated qualifications I'm still 58 and can't get to the interview stage to sell myself due that chronological fact of people feeling the we are past our "use by date" :shock: .

cool runnings.....

sms



I think your are probably a portly, amiable, jovial, genteel, very likable jolly "old" fellow. Even your nick protray you as a responsible family man.

I am beginning to like you. Can I hug you? *hug sms* :D :D

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 13 Aug 2005 4:05 pm

Technically yes Eric. But it's something of a 'I help you as much as I can if you'll help me if you can' We both know it's temporary in nature as the salary is about 40% of my previous salary (he knows it as well and admits same) He's even given me upfront permission to use his client database to source for clients for my headhunting forays as well. Hell, I don't even have a job description as the position did not exist prior to him offering me the work - friend of a friend. I figure maybe I can get a couple of more months out of it only. 2 years ago I wouldn't have gotten out of bed for the salary I'm currently drawing. It doesn't stop the bleeding, it just slows it down to a trickle now.

sms

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sat, 13 Aug 2005 5:41 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Agreed. :wink: (please do not take this personally :( - it's only a discussion) Unfortunately, all my acquired skillsets have become redundant in recent years, that's why after 56 years I went back to school as well. But unfortunately, even with updated qualifications I'm still 58 and can't get to the interview stage to sell myself due that chronological fact of people feeling the we are past our "use by date" :shock: .


ok i won't :) i really do wish things could be easier for you and others like yourself, and perhaps i sounded harsh in my earlier posts. i do understand the reality, and the way you describe it is fine. i just have a problem when the finger-pointing starts, like blaming the government, blaming the employers... blame is never constructive. suggestions, explanations, co-operation, are.

anyway i know a little about the use-by-date syndrome. single girls like myself have a "shelf life" too and even if we don't think about it, others remind us... :(

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 13 Aug 2005 6:36 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:anyway i know a little about the use-by-date syndrome. single girls like myself have a "shelf life" too and even if we don't think about it, others remind us... :(


You've probably got a few good years in you yet! :mrgreen: When I married my current wife it was her 1st marriage and she was 37 so there's still hope! First Child at 38 and 2nd at 43.

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sat, 13 Aug 2005 10:32 pm

thanks for the encouragement, sms. you can be a darling when you choose to be. :wink: if my math serves me right, you married an older woman? not that it's any of my business...

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 13 Aug 2005 11:13 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:thanks for the encouragement, sms. you can be a darling when you choose to be. :wink: if my math serves me right, you married an older woman? not that it's any of my business...


As I said I think in some other post, I never was much for peer pressure. I've always marched to my own drummer. Yeah your right, she's 14 months older than me. Talk about an irregular East-West marriage. Who says our wives are always 10 to 20 years younger. :mrgreen:

1st wife 9 years older than me - She taught me! :shock:
2nd wife 10 years younger - I taught her! :wink:
This one basically same age - Just gettin it done! :mrgreen:

sms


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