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National Service in Singapore

Do you have a question about National Service (NS) in Singapore? Discuss it here.
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Zipp
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National Service in Singapore

Post by Zipp » Mon, 08 Aug 2005 4:03 pm

Hi All,

Am new here, so I will require your kind understanding if this issue has been covered previously in this forum. First off, let me say that I am a Singaporean, and I have finished up my full-time NS some time back.

I was wondering what are people's views here on national Service in Singapore? Specifically, if you are a PR, would you want to go through NS? Would you want your son to go through the 2-year programme, as well as the reservist obligation it entails? Of course, this question would really only be relevant to those who would want a Singapore citizenship.

I am asking because I have come across PRs who have considered taken up citizenship in Singapore, but decided not to, citing NS as the major obstacle. On the other hand, I have encountered non-Singaporeans who voluntarily go through NS. Case in point, my BMT Company actually had a blonde-haired Danish guy. I also know for a fact that there are guys from other Asian and non-Asian countries who have passed through the NS system. However, they seem to be a minority.

The issue is, of course, a personal one. I am not demanding that all PRs must serve time in NS, or anything. Rather, I was wondering if you could share your views on NS here.... would it be a big obstacle if you wanted (hypothetically) to become a Singapore citizen?

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sundaymorningstaple
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Re: National Service in Singapore

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 08 Aug 2005 5:30 pm

Zipp wrote:The issue is, of course, a personal one. I am not demanding that all PRs must serve time in NS, or anything. Rather, I was wondering if you could share your views on NS here.... would it be a big obstacle if you wanted (hypothetically) to become a Singapore citizen?
Hi Zipp,

I've been a PR for about 12 years now. If I hypothetically wanted to become a Singapore citizen it would definately be a no go if they wanted me to do NS.

Why? I am an Ex-Vietnam Veteran of the late 60's, I doubt very seriously whether they would 1) want someone who "actually" has "real" combat experience and 2) was in his mid 40's when he got PR. I can't really give you an opinion on what I would think if I were a young man as too much water has gone under the bridge.

My son, on the other hand, is a Singaporean citizen (dual) courtesy of his mother. I have no intention of removing him from Singapore until he actually does his NS. Not fair to him? Frankly, I think it is. They have given him an education, cheap medical, housing (HDB) for his entire life. I think he should give something back. I could, very easily, have gotten him out of Singapore had I wanted to due to his dual citizenship. He actually wants to do NS as well, unlike the rest of his singaporean peers who do not appreciate their country of birth.

sms

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Merlion
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Re: National Service in Singapore

Post by Merlion » Mon, 08 Aug 2005 8:36 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:

Why? I am an Ex-Vietnam Veteran of the late 60's....

My son, on the other hand, is a Singaporean citizen (dual) courtesy of his mother.....

sms
I am assuming you are American because of being an Ex-Vietnam Veteran. If you are American how on earth did you manage to get dual citizenship for your children? I was under the impression that Singapore does not recognize dual.

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sundaymorningstaple
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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 08 Aug 2005 10:48 pm

Minor children can hold dual citizenship until they reach the age of majority. At that time they have to renounce one or the other. My son will probably give up is Sing citizenship after NS. My daughter is unknown at the moment but she is engaged to a Singaporean.

sms

3SG (Ret)

Post by 3SG (Ret) » Thu, 11 Aug 2005 2:04 am

I went thru NS and got my sitizenship here. Paid a good price for it mentally and physically.
Generally I would not suggest to give them your children (if you are PR and holding a sitizenship of a "good" country). Especially if they personally dislike the idea of beign inferior and deprived for 2.5 years. Those who came here from "bad" countries - you can do it. But I should remind you that your kid has to give them a lot - 2.5 years of his young life. Low salary, not enough sleep, lousy food, medicine and commanders, no sexual life however it is possible to LIVE there.
I forgot to tell you. I volonteered to do NS. I could throw away my PR and come back to the place where I came from. Also I had military experience before.
Compare to other armies I rate the conditions in SAF between "good" and "excelent". The unoficial rules are the same as in any other army. Read Merphy laws and military jokes about smart privates making fun of stupid low educated commanders etc.
The best way to survive in SAF hostile environment is to complain and backstab anyone who is trying to abuse their powers. I'm talking about regular uniformed and civilian commanders.
Best regards.
P.S. Zipp, MINDEF would like to know the opinion of expats? Tell to big brother that I would like to see more girls in army. It will encrease the birthrate and defencive abilities of SAF. NS for women! Give them right to fulfil this eligibility together with their or other men!
:)

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ksl
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Post by ksl » Thu, 11 Aug 2005 2:09 am

The issue is, of course, a personal one. I am not demanding that all PRs must serve time in NS, or anything. Rather, I was wondering if you could share your views on NS here.... would it be a big obstacle if you wanted (hypothetically) to become a Singapore citizen?
I have been a volunteer for my own Country, UK with q 22/9 option, i would have completed the 22 had my domestic circumstances not changed. My son on the other hand, thought he could hack it and went in the boy soldiers at 16, after joining man service, the novelty started to wear off. and he came out, his reasons are his.

But my opinion is for any young man, that NS will open their eyes, to discipline and organisation and will probably develop you physically and mentally for the real world, building character and using your own initative are assets, that need to be developed, early the better, for confidence building. I think it's very important for all adults, even women.

2 years NS is nothing, I damn wish the UK would start NS to clean up all the anti-social yobs over there! You should be proud of your NS and your Country.

With ref to dual nationality! I will say that, the UK citizenship I have been told in Denmark for example, can never be revoked Denmark do not allow dual Nationality, that is to say, they take my passport, when I change to Danish citizenship, But the Danish police told me UK passport cannot be revoked, so if I go to UK, I can just apply for a new one.

I'm not sure if this will apply in the USA, if so SMS children, should be OK, even though Singapore will take their USA passport, they maybe able to get them back in the states. I also know that many Taiwanese have dual nationality also with the USA, even though Taiwan do not allow it.

However after reading the above post I would like to say, that bullies exsist in all services, parents should support their kids, and inform them that this may happen. Do not stand for bullying. The shouting and abuse to a certain extent is traditional live with it, in one ear and out of the other. yes sir yes sir 3 bags full sir! and do not condone racism.

I have seen racism and bullying, by power crazy little shits, believe me, and even a Major I used to drive around, accused me here in Singapore of stealing his Fcuking orange juice, while partying with other officers out in the jungle, I can tell you he come very very close to getting a head butt.
I got posted out to the desert for my threat! So yes it is a balancing act, and you must not show signs of weakness, others will take advantage of.

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