Singapore Expats Forum

Divorced with kids?

Discuss about the latest news & interesting topics, real life experience or other out of topic discussions with locals & expatriates in Singapore.

DVK

Divorced with kids?

Postby DVK » Sun, 07 Aug 2005 12:26 am

Sorry guys/gals- hope you dont mind if i moved that post in here cos i felt it was not fair to hijack the other thread. I posted it there mainly to get SMS attention cos he has mentioned several times about being married a a 'few' times so i thought i'd put this question to him

So any others with comments and stories to share about kids n divorce- would really like to hear from those who took the plunge and did it anyway instead of saying- "Im staying for the sake of the kids" because i too believe kids DO get emotionally scarred from listening to their parents' endless fighting!


Divorcedwith kids?
Guest






Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:23 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
samantha wrote:
I'm happy being single and independent now.. and i guess i'm going to maintain that for a long long time.. hee i'm too independent to tie myself down with any relatonship... haha!!


At 17 and probably living at home and still in school how can you say your independent?

Anyway, I must believe in marriage, I keep doing it over and over again. Either that or I never learn my lesson!

sms


SMS- (and any one else who is divorced and has children from their previous marriage) - SMS- i dont know if you have children so forgive me for being presumptious

I hear a lot of men/women say they remain in their unhappy marriages BECAUSE OF their children. But they remain in the marriage while they fight and one or both parties continues to be unfaithful or do whatever it is that has created the breakdown in the marriage.

How is remaining in a marriage under those circumstances good for the children? Or is it just an excuse to avoid pain/alimony/loneliness/lose of face? etc

So my question to people who got divorced anyway- how did u muster the courage to just go ahead and file for the divorce?

Back to top


sundaymorningstaple
Chatter



Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 245
Game Trophies: 3

Location: Somewhere on this little Red Dot!
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:53 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Divorcedwith kids?

Yes, I have a family, a 15 boy & 21 year old girl. I cannot begin to answer your question with a definitive answer. My family is from my current marriage. Neither of my 1st 2 wives had any children during our marriages (well I did have a step-son in my 1st from her previous marraige but that's not the same).

That said, there have been times over the past 22 years of this marriage that we have had some rather rough patches. Show me a family who hasn't. Was it the kids who kept us together? Good question. An honest answer would probably be yes. Sometimes its the kids that stop us from acting on impulse and doing something we may regret later. That said, if the marriage totally and irretrievably breaks down then I would have to say it's time for a divorce before we do subconscious damage to the kids. I do think that a kid can be harmed psychologically in a family without love. But at the same time, I don't believe in hiding everything from the kids because when the time comes and the marriage ends the kids then have no idea why and this is even harder to deal with. This I can vouch for from personal experience.

In a divorce with kids, I think it is still very important that the parents both maintain contact with their kids. This is where the problems with custody and bitterness create their own set of problems. Like the new rules in India, I think all people contemplating marriage should be required to have two things done before being allowed to say 'I do'. One is a current HIV negative certificate and the second is a psychological profile to see if the couple are basically compatible. This would help to eliminate trophy wives or husbands and also rule out people marrying for money ala Anna Nichol Smith.

Only my opinion folks so don't take all to heart.

sms
_________________
Middle Age is that perplexing time of life when we hear two voices calling us, one saying, "Why not?" and the other, "Why bother?"
Sydney J. Harris



Back to top


Divorced with kids?
Guest






Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:18 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for your reply SMS-- i especially agree with the points i have 'highlighted/bolded' with the quote box of your post


sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Divorcedwith kids?

Yes, I have a family, a 15 boy & 21 year old girl. I cannot begin to answer your question with a definitive answer. My family is from my current marriage. Neither of my 1st 2 wives had any children during our marriages (well I did have a step-son in my 1st from her previous marraige but that's not the same).

That said, there have been times over the past 22 years of this marriage that we have had some rather rough patches. Show me a family who hasn't. Was it the kids who kept us together? Good question. An honest answer would probably be yes. Sometimes its the kids that stop us from acting on impulse and doing something we may regret later.
That said, if the marriage totally and irretrievably breaks down then I would have to say it's time for a divorce before we do subconscious damage to the kids. I do think that a kid can be harmed psychologically in a family without love. But at the same time, I don't believe in hiding everything from the kids because when the time comes and the marriage ends the kids then have no idea why and this is even harder to deal with. This I can vouch for from personal experience.

In a divorce with kids, I think it is still very important that the parents both maintain contact with their kids. This is where the problems with custody and bitterness create their own set of problems. Like the new rules in India, I think all people contemplating marriage should be required to have two things done before being allowed to say 'I do'.
One is a current HIV negative certificate and the second is a psychological profile to see if the couple are basically compatible. This would help to eliminate trophy wives or husbands and also rule out people marrying for money ala Anna Nichol Smith.

Only my opinion folks so don't take all to heart.

sms

mouse

divoced with kids

Postby mouse » Sun, 07 Aug 2005 6:04 pm

I am a divorced parent thirds times a charm. I have a child from my 1st husband and to this day we are still the best of friends. Our child and now grandchild come first he has never shown any physocolical problem from it because we never badmouth or berate each other in front of him. I now have a 17 yr old from my marraige now and oh what a challenge but I always let him know he is loved. No problem just the teen error. He is so different from my child as well as the divorce they went through. My child has always been open to me about everything wheter it was wrong or right. This step child wants his precious devious manipulave mother to think he is a the perfect child although he drinks, drugs and anything else he can get into although he is a A student. Now I'm at a delima to tell her the truth. Husband says no. I say yes!! He is alot like his mother very manipulative What do you think SMS I always admire your advice most time anyways

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34782
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 07 Aug 2005 6:43 pm

mouse,

First of all, this is an area that I only have a very small amount of experience. I did have a step-son in my 1st marriage. And his mother thought he could do no wrong until I found a baggie of grass in his jeans pocket in the laundry basket one saturday morning. I though his mother was going to have kittens when the realization hit her. But that was a different kettle of fish as he lived with me and his mother. Bit different as he knew his real father was a jerk, etc., etc.

Secondly, I've been married 3 times. I don't, somehow, think I'm the best one to be asking for advice. I would like to think that I was not to blame for the first 2 failures as the 3rd one has lasted 22+ years. But who knows, the old saying is it takes two to tango. For anybody reading, both of my previous divorces were granted on mutual agreement as there were never any grounds for divorce by either party. We just fell out of love I guess.

Thirdly, the best advice I can probably give you is to have further discussions with your husband to find out why the disinclination to tell the boy's mother about his behavioural problems. I am surprised that he has custody in the first place. I do feel, that in the longer term, that if the boy eventually gets into trouble with the law, etc., etc. and only then the boy's mother finds out, both you and your husband will be accused by the mother of not doing anything prior to her son getting into trouble. It might be wise to look into the possibility of you and your husband talking to a professional before something serious really happens.

Again, only an opinion.

sms

User avatar
Wind In My Hair
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2306
Joined: Tue, 19 Jul 2005

Postby Wind In My Hair » Sun, 07 Aug 2005 9:27 pm

mouse, i sympathise with you. my ex-fiance had a son living with him and i was almost a stepmother so i know a little of how you feel. and it's tough cos you're kind of responsible for your stepson yet you're not the biological parent so your husband has final say over his child.

i think sms' advice about seeing professional counsellor is very sound. if you want to handle this on your own or if you can't get your husband and stepson to agree to seeing a counsellor, then maybe you should ask yourself whether telling his mother will do any good. no mother wants to hear nasty things about their own children, and especially not from you perhaps, as in her mind you may have 'usurped' her role as mother. so it is very likely that you will become the bad guy in both her eyes (for thinking the worst of her son) and in your stepson's eyes (for 'telling tales').

if you are very clear in your mind what good you are hoping to achieve and think that telling his mother is the best way to achieve that, then go ahead, but be prepared that your husband will not be happy. but if you are not completely sure then i would take a back seat in this matter. that's just my humble opinion and again, you have my sympathies.

Guest

Postby Guest » Sun, 07 Aug 2005 10:07 pm

thnks for your advice very much appreciated

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Mon, 08 Aug 2005 2:04 am

Divorced at the age of 28, and the ex had custody of both,

It was a very emotional upset, which i never really recovered from! The most difficult part was losing my children, to a very insecure ex wife, who eventually started drug taking and boozing, and dumping the kids every weekend at my mothers, on occasions she had left them alone aged 5 and 3 years, and they had woke up and walked to my mothers.

I hated having to pay a small fortune to her each month, becuase I knew it was going on booze and drugs. She was difficult becuase I refused to take her back after she had left me for a period of 6 months.

I couldn't stand the pain of seeing my screaming children every weekend for a couple of hours, she made me make appointments to pick them up, if i was late she would threaten with the police. I left the country to get away from the suffering, and visited my children only once a year.

Eventually the ex was arrested for drugs, by this time my son was 14
and she was having difficulty with him, becuase he always wanted to be with me, So she agreed that I could take him.

Unfortunately i had never had any influence on his life, and I could see he was far to much involved in my identity, it was scary, I had to get school psychological help, which didn't help, So he was learning the hard way, that the things his father did, was not always the right things. He joined the boy soldiers at 16, becuase he wanted to be like his dad.

It was quite disturbing for me, because i couldn't talk any sense into him, or for that matter also my daughter, I have tried and tried again, to guide them, but they have their own minds. I have given up saying I told you so, becuase, it is kind of rubbing it in, which doesn't help.

They are now in their 30's and they still do not listen to good advice, but they know I love them, and that I am always there for them. I don't spoil them, and they have both said to me, I have always been to strict, whatever that means. I can only guess that i have been disciplined by the military for many years, and that when I say something, then I mean it.

It makes me sad that they put all the blame on their mother, when I also know, that their mum, was always an insecure person, school age love! I was 17 and she was 14 and we married when i was 21 becuase I was being posted out to Singapore for 3 years, So it was either get married or finish the relationship. The ex wife eventually joined me in Singapore, Unfortunately Northern Ireland took me away from Singapore after only 1 year. So I should have stayed single.

Eventually I was spending more time in Ireland, than with my wife, and it had to happen, that she would be unfaithful. Sad she never did settle she's been married 4 times, and eventually tells me, that she as never ever experienced happieness since breaking up with me.

We have all suffered and yet I still try to get the kids, not to be so hard on their mum. They are happy that I have eventually remarried and they have a step sister.

But sincerely when I look back on life, which is very short, I have a problem to understand, what life is all about?

marriedwithkids
Member
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon, 10 Jan 2005

Postby marriedwithkids » Mon, 08 Aug 2005 1:36 pm

ksl, thanks for pouring your emotion into that one. That kinda speaks to me cos' I'm contemplating going through a divorce to go from 'marriedwithkids' to 'divorcedwithkids'.

I've married my wife six yrs ago after going out for 9 yrs cos' it seemed like the 'right' thing to do, she being a high school sweetheart and all. Personality wise, we're miles apart. Now we can't stand each other most of the time and life becomes a living hell. We both work, have good jobs, and will get irrirated at the slightest things we do. 3 kids later, it's kinda hard to act rashly although I know if not for the kids, we'd be history with each other a long time ago.

We just have values that are too different from each other. She's very family oriented- believes in doing everything for children herself, while I'm the 'outsourcing champion'. Would love to have a maid, but she says no doesn't like it, and ends up being stressed up cos she insists on doing everything (yes, even housework to her own standards) and ending up with no time to herself. Her idea of an ideal relationship is me at home every possible moment- no golf with friends on weekends ( I actually have to take annual leave to play golf with friends). My jobs requires me to do light travel (about a week a month or every two months) and she is now going bersek over the travel and has issued me with an ultimatum this morning- her & kids or job. I am choosing job and have never been happier. Am speaking to some lawyers for advice on how best handle this thing.

User avatar
Wind In My Hair
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2306
Joined: Tue, 19 Jul 2005

Postby Wind In My Hair » Mon, 08 Aug 2005 1:56 pm

gosh i'm so sorry to hear all your sad stories. i thought breaking up with my fiance a month ago was hard, but now i realise i may have had it easy and escaped a similar fate... the years of anguish that you have gone through. can't help much i'm afraid. hope things work out for you guys.

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Mon, 08 Aug 2005 3:13 pm

marriedwithkids wrote:ksl, thanks for pouring your emotion into that one. That kinda speaks to me because' I'm contemplating going through a divorce to go from 'marriedwithkids' to 'divorcedwithkids'.

I've married my wife six yrs ago after going out for 9 yrs because' it seemed like the 'right' thing to do, she being a high school sweetheart and all. Personality wise, we're miles apart. Now we can't stand each other most of the time and life becomes a living hell. We both work, have good jobs, and will get irrirated at the slightest things we do. 3 kids later, it's kinda hard to act rashly although I know if not for the kids, we'd be history with each other a long time ago.

We just have values that are too different from each other. She's very family oriented- believes in doing everything for children herself, while I'm the 'outsourcing champion'. Would love to have a maid, but she says no doesn't like it, and ends up being stressed up because she insists on doing everything (yes, even housework to her own standards) and ending up with no time to herself. Her idea of an ideal relationship is me at home every possible moment- no golf with friends on weekends ( I actually have to take annual leave to play golf with friends). My jobs requires me to do light travel (about a week a month or every two months) and she is now going bersek over the travel and has issued me with an ultimatum this morning- her & kids or job. I am choosing job and have never been happier. Am speaking to some lawyers for advice on how best handle this thing.


I think it's kind of ironic to think your wife seems to be such a good house keeper, and yet my new wife doesn't know one end of a brush from the other, but i love her all the same, what i also dislike is that she is a business woman that also works 12hrs a day 6 days a week, and is far from domesticated. So rather then me help 50/50, I have almost all the household chores to do, and look after my wife and daughter.

Basically she has been very spoiled from her parents, yet worked hard for her education, I must stress that in the European world, women still have their roles in the household, no maids, and therefore have much more to cope with, But we will survive and get on extremely very well.

In your case, I feel for your wife I'm afraid becuase she is the one actually trying to keep the household together, and like you say, you are the out sourcing champion. I suspect that because of your relationship, you may have missed out on quite alot of life, while your wife is more interested in a stable home.

I think it's very important to realise your circumstances of taking each other for granted!!! You need to arrange with your wife a time where you can both sit down, preferably on a dinner date, and have a real heart to heart talk. I'm quite sure you still have feelings for her, but resent the fact that you are missing out on life in a big way.

If you break up, it could have a devastating effect on your children, especially if you end up at each others throats, they will be unable to conscentrate at school, and may well end up with all sorts of hang ups.

The both of my children refused to continue education and only thought about getting married and having children, and succeeding were me and their mother failed. Only they end up with the same problems becuase they never listen to good advice.

Sit down with your wife and see if you can come to some kind of settlement, where you get a little more time for your hobbies, all people need their own space for development, lives change daily, for many people, we set different gaols and hobbies. Yet some like my own wife have no hobbies only work. it's very sad, that they do not even try to learn to ride a bike, go swimming, have interest in art, or fitness, or get involved with her own daughter. it is after all a learning process.

Is it not possible to take your wife golfing! Anyway if i was you, I would be thankful for what you have, becuase the next time, you may not be so lucky. Your wife probably feels she doesn't need a maid, and if you was to give her a helping hand, she may even let you play golf.

You must understand, I have know idea of what is going on in your relationship, and I would never tell anyone what to do. But like anything else, if there is a problem, it needs to be solved, rather than coming back with excuses. if the situation cannot be solved, then it is time to discuss a seperation, not a divorce. Keep your relationship on friendly terms, for the sake of all concerned.

It just may well work out, that a seperation allows peace in the household
You get what you want, and your wife, providing she is financially secure, may well get some peace also.

But remember you must agree also on the terms of the relationship, seperation doesn't allow you to go chasing other women, if you do that, you will soon realise what you lost, was in fact your wife and family.

Whatever your arrangement, you must give your wife equal terms, and she must agree, if you can do that, then i believe you could possibly get on together. even to the extent of having girlfriends, providing your wife is allowed boyfriends, discretion for the sake of children is very important.

Explain to the Children, that you are just falling out, like they also do at school, with their own friends. Children do notice behaviour patterns in parents, and do worry. Hope you can work something out, before taking any drastic steps.
[/quote]

Damselfly

Postby Damselfly » Mon, 08 Aug 2005 7:06 pm

marriedwithkids wrote:ksl, thanks for pouring your emotion into that one. That kinda speaks to me because' I'm contemplating going through a divorce to go from 'marriedwithkids' to 'divorcedwithkids'.

I've married my wife six yrs ago after going out for 9 yrs because' it seemed like the 'right' thing to do, she being a high school sweetheart and all. Personality wise, we're miles apart. Now we can't stand each other most of the time and life becomes a living hell. We both work, have good jobs, and will get irrirated at the slightest things we do. 3 kids later, it's kinda hard to act rashly although I know if not for the kids, we'd be history with each other a long time ago.

We just have values that are too different from each other. She's very family oriented- believes in doing everything for children herself, while I'm the 'outsourcing champion'. Would love to have a maid, but she says no doesn't like it, and ends up being stressed up because she insists on doing everything (yes, even housework to her own standards) and ending up with no time to herself. Her idea of an ideal relationship is me at home every possible moment- no golf with friends on weekends ( I actually have to take annual leave to play golf with friends). My jobs requires me to do light travel (about a week a month or every two months) and she is now going bersek over the travel and has issued me with an ultimatum this morning- her & kids or job. I am choosing job and have never been happier. Am speaking to some lawyers for advice on how best handle this thing.


No judgement here just wondering- you BOTH work and she comes back to play housewife, mother and maid all in one? Does she get any help from you? could it be she is stressed a bit and feels resentful?

Sounds like she did get a chance to have a life outside work and taking care of family- any chance you can take the load of her?

Please go see a counsellor- its ok if you dont want the marriage but just go see a counsellor so you can iron out what is really the issue, get a chance to air grieviences in a neutral setting -

Have a bit of compassion for her and you may find some things you didnt notice

Damselfly

Postby Damselfly » Mon, 08 Aug 2005 7:08 pm

I meant to say sounds like she "didn't"


Sounds like she did get a chance to have a life outside work and taking care of family- any chance you can take the load of her?

marriedwithkids
Member
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon, 10 Jan 2005

Postby marriedwithkids » Tue, 09 Aug 2005 2:35 pm

damselfly and Ksl: she's a control freak.Everything has to be done her way. The way the floor is swept, dishes, laundry. I've offered to help and she says she rather do it herself cos' she ends up doing it all over again because it's not done her way. Which is why we've had a maid and that didn't work out. The control goes beyond this and I feel so repressed and stiffled in our relationship it's not fun anymore. A relationship should magnify the connectedness and love you feel, not repress it.

The only reason why I'm still in this is the kids. No doubt, she's a great mother and puts them above her own needs but she expects me to do the same as well. Can't live on love, bread and fresh air alone can we?

I've suggested counselling but she says it's her way or the highway.....gosh.

Divorced-with-kids?

Postby Divorced-with-kids? » Wed, 10 Aug 2005 7:46 am

marriedwithkids wrote:damselfly and Ksl: she's a control freak.Everything has to be done her way. The way the floor is swept, dishes, laundry. I've offered to help and she says she rather do it herself because' she ends up doing it all over again because it's not done her way. Which is why we've had a maid and that didn't work out. The control goes beyond this and I feel so repressed and stiffled in our relationship it's not fun anymore. A relationship should magnify the connectedness and love you feel, not repress it.

The only reason why I'm still in this is the kids. No doubt, she's a great mother and puts them above her own needs but she expects me to do the same as well. Can't live on love, bread and fresh air alone can we?

I've suggested counselling but she says it's her way or the highway.....gosh.



kinda unusual for the guy to suggest counselling so kudos to you, cos usually its the women suggesting it and men resisting..
your kids will grow up dysfunctional one way or another if she is projecting all her needs, hopes and fears on them...

thats why i agree with sms about the marriage counselling BEFORE getting married- and really i strongly recommend therapy as an ongoing thing- we carry so much of baggage from our own childhoods and then we procreate and dump it on the children- UNINTENTIONALLY of course!!

My sister is a control freak too - and she is thinking getting divorced- more because of husband's infidelities- your wife and my sister wouldnt be related in some way would they!! :?

AlexY

Postby AlexY » Wed, 10 Aug 2005 1:15 pm

My parents divorce when i was 9 and my younger sister was 6. I have college friends also with divorce parents they all say its because one or both parents had affairs but always blame the other and fight and say bad things about each other. I hate both my parents for a what they did to me and my sis. we r the adults and they r the children- they dont know how to behave with each other - since i was 4 yrs old already i can remember the fighting. i dont understand why they hve another child later- it got worse after that i think..i dont think i want to have children or get married.. im 19 now and have a girlfriend but i told her dont ever ask me about marriage

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Wed, 10 Aug 2005 5:47 pm

AlexY wrote:My parents divorce when i was 9 and my younger sister was 6. I have college friends also with divorce parents they all say its because one or both parents had affairs but always blame the other and fight and say bad things about each other. I hate both my parents for a what they did to me and my sis. we r the adults and they r the children- they dont know how to behave with each other - since i was 4 yrs old already i can remember the fighting. i dont understand why they hve another child later- it got worse after that i think..i dont think i want to have children or get married.. im 19 now and have a girlfriend but i told her dont ever ask me about marriage


yes it is very tough on kids, I also come from a divorced background, and pledged to myself never to be like my father. I only knew my father to be a womaniser, and a cheat on my mother.

It's a very sad affair, and we, my mother and i always ended up walking the streets all night, until someone offered us shelter, my parents eventually divorced, and I only started to visit my dad, when he became ill. I must say there are two sides to every story.

After my father told me about my mum being very very jealous and never trusted him, I wondered why, I recall my mother did follow him some times, but she must have had reason. Even though they were like cat & dog, they still loved and hated eachother, just couldn't live together, it took them 30 years before getting divorced. My father died, only after he heard my mother died, 4 weeks after, he just gave up.

Even though I have kept my pledge never to be a womaniser and remain faithful, I thought I would remain married for ever, it never turned out that way. because it does take two, with the same mindset to make it work. I was quite happy to remain single for another 20 odd years. So never give up hope, you need to keep your family alive. Life and history is important to all families, and you do have the influence to change things. Like myself mix breeding, strengthens the genes in many ways, to prduce something more wonderful.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “General Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests