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Integrate or Get Out...

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wandering
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Re: Integrate or Get Out...

Postby wandering » Fri, 05 Aug 2005 4:05 am

Razia_Tehrani wrote:British moslems told, 'intergrate or simply get out'.

Is this a wise policy????


the ONLY wise policy

sved
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Postby sved » Fri, 05 Aug 2005 8:52 am

What the point of that ?

Extremists don't want neither to be integrated nor to get out ...

Muslims just want to live their lives and have already been integrated for years ...

Who is that thing for ?
Forgive my english, still learning ...

Guest

Postby Guest » Fri, 05 Aug 2005 8:20 pm

Eric from the Netherlands wrote:Agree with Yutenji here. Nice header for the papers to sell.

At the same time though, the thinking behind this shortliner is very much alive in a lot of European countries nowadays. Let me speak for my own homecountry, where this is today's policy.

Hundreds of thousands, if not a few millions of either refugees, asylum seekers and so called 'gastarbeiders' / foreign workers have come to The Netherlands, presumably because of its extremely accessible welfare system and the tolerance that Holland is known for.

The foreign workers came in the 1960's, as Holland needed them, the dirty jobs were just not attractive enough for the locals, cynically spoken. These people stayed in a lot of cases, grew their families, 2nd and now already 3rd generation Dutch Morocccans and - Turks. Most of them Muslim and not taking part in daily social life at all. Keeping their own culture, in a lot of cases the policy was even to stimulate them to maintain their culture and language (the so called OETC, which stands for language and culture education in own language). As a result, there was no integration at all. Economy went down, loads of jobless foreign workers, unable to find new jobs and cope with today's demands. Huge costs for unemployment benefits involved, as well as the inability to even talk the language of the country they reside in.

The gap is growing, the world is changing and the vast majority of the muslim community is not integrated. The government, being pushed by populous politicians on the far right side of the political spectrum, has to act and comes with policies as mentioned by the OP: either integrate or exit.

But in daily life, it is the different authorities and institutions, who have to translate this tough policy into real actions: provide tools for enabling the foreigners to integrate. Language courses, examens, processes, policies etc etc. And nobody knows how, nobody has a central overview, it is a total chaos. Muslim community points at the authorities and the government, locals getting sannoyed with lack of results and increasing intolerance, not in the last place because of continuing terrorist threats and acts, seemingly being done by 'muslims'.

For myself and my wife it was one of the main reasons to migrate and turn back to Singapore, away from the anarchy and chaos in today's Europe.

Eric



Ericooo, you always talk shit as usual. You have no clue as to what you are talking about.

Guest

Postby Guest » Fri, 05 Aug 2005 9:40 pm

sved wrote:What the point of that ?

Extremists don't want neither to be integrated nor to get out ...

Muslims just want to live their lives and have already been integrated for years ...

Who is that thing for ?


If you understood the backgound to the extremist, and the gaols set by the extremist. you would understand, that they have no room for other religions, they are all infidels and crusaders. there can only be Extreme Islam.

Of course they want to stay, they all get social welfare. but now the host countries have had enough.
Muslims just want to live their lives and have already been integrated for years
You really need to do some research on extreme Islam, there gaol is to conquer the world.

Why do you think they fight now in South Thailand? they want their own state. same every place, they cannot be satisfied with integration, its about taking your lands.

Posssibly yes

Postby Posssibly yes » Fri, 05 Aug 2005 10:25 pm

If Europe is in chaos, then the whole world is in chaos, Eric. You are very right about the policies of, mainly Northern European countries. They tried very hard to make integration as easy as possible, allowing and fostering the newcomers history and background = it all came to shit because for them European governments are there for the taking. Just have a look at mainland Chinese immigrants in New Zealand = taking the piss out of the social instututions and giving nothing back.

Yes, there shouold be integration or people should return to whence they came.

pro-integration

Re: Integrate or Get Out...

Postby pro-integration » Fri, 05 Aug 2005 11:49 pm

Razia_Tehrani wrote:British moslems told, 'intergrate or simply get out'.

Is this a wise policy????


Personally, I think that if a group forms a large, sizable proportion of population in a host country, and refuse to integrate, then it's as good as an invasion. I can't imagine any country would allow such an invasion.

I'll like to imagine that the Muslim community in London can stand up and declare that they are already integrated. They should have no quarrel with such a statement.

Although the USA is said to be a melting pot, the main components of the melting pot have already integrated - the various European and African migrants surely have. So in my opinion, the melting pot and integration are not mutually exclusive.

In my opinion, any immigrant who settles in a host country without an intention to integrate is very selfish and undeserving of the privilege. It is really essential to have in the immigration papers a declaration that an immigrant makes a commitment to integrate.

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Postby Vaucluse » Sat, 06 Aug 2005 3:31 pm

Definition of integration, anyone?

incorporation as equals into society or an organization of individuals of different groups


As long as an individuals rights are respected and guaranteed by the governing powers, and this includes religious freedom, people are free to do as they like. If a group does not try to integrate (as it is a two-way street) then my question is why they are there in the first place. Also not to be confused with the many Tamils, for example, living in Switzerland, arriving as refugees - but they still are integrated into society despite their different religion, skin colour, foods, habits . . .

Any country has the right to expel, send back to their originating country, individuals or groups that advocate non-integration and anti-democratic bullshit. I wonder why they are so against their host country when they chose to be there in the first place . . .

The days of occupation, infiltration and empire are over, military or religious, one simply cannot attempt to usurp the laws of a democratic and stable government by advocating hate and violence.
(this is not about invasion, so leave the anti-US or Brit Iraq-war comments aside for this)
......................................................

'nuff said Image

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat, 06 Aug 2005 4:04 pm

Vaucluse wrote:Definition of integration, anyone?

incorporation as equals into society or an organization of individuals of different groups


As long as an individuals rights are respected and guaranteed by the governing powers, and this includes religious freedom, people are free to do as they like. If a group does not try to integrate (as it is a two-way street) then my question is why they are there in the first place. Also not to be confused with the many Tamils, for example, living in Switzerland, arriving as refugees - but they still are integrated into society despite their different religion, skin colour, foods, habits . . .

Any country has the right to expel, send back to their originating country, individuals or groups that advocate non-integration and anti-democratic bullshit. I wonder why they are so against their host country when they chose to be there in the first place . . .

The days of occupation, infiltration and empire are over, military or religious, one simply cannot attempt to usurp the laws of a democratic and stable government by advocating hate and violence.
(this is not about invasion, so leave the anti-US or Brit Iraq-war comments aside for this)


Personally this is one time when i agree, with execution, No matter who what or where, a person should respect the host Countries laws, to go against these fundimentals of basic laws and national security is treason.

reality bites

Postby reality bites » Mon, 08 Aug 2005 4:05 pm

Answer to original question - yes, that's a good policy. But, the UK, like ALL Western nations is too soft to enforce it. The immigrants laugh at how silly we are, giving them money and protection while they deride our culture, maintain their own languages and values, and send money home, etc. It's a one way street, even if Westerners wanted to emigrate to Asian and African countries, which we don't, we would quickly be put in our place if we tried to insist the Japanese teach our kids in English in their schools or allow a pub in Saudi Arabia or the dole in China or Christmas in Thailand.

The West was once hard and, as a result, successful. Now, due to our success, we've allowed the fools among us to think it was ever thus, and that our former strength had no value or was a crime, and this multi-cultural BS proliferates and weakens us year by year. Our decline is well underway.

Ciparro

Postby Ciparro » Mon, 08 Aug 2005 6:54 pm

reality bites wrote:Answer to original question - yes, that's a good policy. But, the UK, like ALL Western nations is too soft to enforce it. The immigrants laugh at how silly we are, giving them money and protection while they deride our culture, maintain their own languages and values, and send money home, etc. It's a one way street, even if Westerners wanted to emigrate to Asian and African countries, which we don't, we would quickly be put in our place if we tried to insist the Japanese teach our kids in English in their schools or allow a pub in Saudi Arabia or the dole in China or Christmas in Thailand.

The West was once hard and, as a result, successful. Now, due to our success, we've allowed the fools among us to think it was ever thus, and that our former strength had no value or was a crime, and this multi-cultural BS proliferates and weakens us year by year. Our decline is well underway.


Well said and you have really spoken my mind for me. Thank you. What I don't understand is why has the UK government become so lenient over these people. Only few days ago I read over the internet that most of their clerics are living off the state benefits with large families. Why have the authroities not done anything about this once they know about them and their whereabouts?

If you look at it, it is really the fault of the UK government and the authorities, don't you agree?

I have also seen the same clerics burning the British Union Jack in front of the media cameras. They have openly announced they are going to take over Britain and turn it into an islamic state!!! I SAY THEY ARE SPEAKING FROM THEIR AND THEIR PROPHET'S ASSEHOLES, don't you agree?

What about other communities belonging to different religions living in the UK have to say about the black flag of islam over number 10 Downing Street???? ALL I CAN SAY IS THEY CAN GET THE freak OUT OF UK AND TAKE THEIR freak RELIGION FOUND IN THEIR freak KORAN WITH THEM. Their religion preaches to kill innocent people, what kind of religion is this?

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Postby sved » Mon, 08 Aug 2005 8:00 pm

I think that none of you should melt extremists and religion.
Extremists are NOT religious anymore, as they go against their own laws to fulfill their purposes.

And blaming a whole religion for some people's acts is one of the worst generalisation I can find.

Shouldn't we get rid of all the christians for clergy, crusades, KKK and all the other things, if we think that way ?
Forgive my english, still learning ...


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