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Benefits of Singaporean PR?

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sundaymorningstaple
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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 12 Mar 2007 8:27 pm

I wonder if somethouht is still here after the almost 2 years since he posted that? Hopefully he wised up and gave that employer short shrift!

:wink:
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by Strong Eagle » Mon, 12 Mar 2007 9:14 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I wonder if somethouht is still here after the almost 2 years since he posted that? Hopefully he wised up and gave that employer short shrift!

:wink:
Yeh... I noticed that AFTER I posted. Amazing how old posts get resurrected.

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OPT-OUT ORGAN DONATION

Post by dutch69 » Wed, 14 Mar 2007 11:55 am

sundaymorning, as a moderator here, i'm surprised with your tone in reply to some of these posts (posting about organ donation), are you by any chance a singaporean? I also think its ridiculous abt all these so-called opt-out schemes and frankly if people make you opt-in they should clearly let you know how to opt out. In parliament the only thing they could bring up was that they will shortly do a campaign to educate people about organ donation - obviously to prevent an avalanche of people who will be signing their hard-to-find opt out forms.

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Post by Bonbon » Wed, 14 Mar 2007 12:51 pm

I like that example Strong Eagle.

PR I thought is no different than an EP, since you dont get to vote like a citizen, though the healthy regime is changing to benefit PR more than an EP.

CPF I find it only useful if you want to buy an apartment, you can use your CPF to pay for the mortgage (that is if you need one). If you dont need it the CPF simply just stays in there until the day you leave Singapore, that you're trying to get it out. Even that think you have to apply to forfeit your PR first, (and you will never be able to re-apply), and finally when you get your money, the rate is according to my mate is only like 2ish %...which is lower than the deposit rate y ou can get from the banks out there?

hmmm........am I right?????

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Post by huggybear » Wed, 14 Mar 2007 1:21 pm

i'm surprised no one has brought up the national service requirement?

to me that is a big negative. then again maybe i could use it since i'm carrying too many stones haha.

National Service Liability
Under the Enlistment Act, all male Singapore Citizens and Permanent Residents (PRs) are liable to register for National Service (NS) upon reaching 16 1/2 years old. They are required to serve 2 years of full-time NS at 18 years old, followed by 40 days of Operationally Ready National Service per year till the age of 50 years (for officers) or 40 years (for other ranks).

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 14 Mar 2007 2:02 pm

Huggy, I normally wouldn't do this but in order to answer your question without rehashing an area that I have done to death in another thread on another forum I am going to post a link to that thread over at the Angry Board. Read it at your leisure as it covers a time frame of about 1 year I think. PR, Kids and National Service & Going from PR to EP

This is one of the few threads that while it did meander now and then and does have it's fair share of ignorant trolls, it is a good thread regarding the PR vrs NS obligations.
Last edited by sundaymorningstaple on Wed, 14 Mar 2007 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by huggybear » Wed, 14 Mar 2007 2:25 pm

Many thanks. i'm honored.
unfortunately this is the best "emoticon" i could find.
[-o<

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Re: OPT-OUT ORGAN DONATION

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 14 Mar 2007 2:32 pm

dutch69 wrote:sundaymorning, as a moderator here, i'm surprised with your tone in reply to some of these posts (posting about organ donation), are you by any chance a singaporean? I also think its ridiculous abt all these so-called opt-out schemes and frankly if people make you opt-in they should clearly let you know how to opt out. In parliament the only thing they could bring up was that they will shortly do a campaign to educate people about organ donation - obviously to prevent an avalanche of people who will be signing their hard-to-find opt out forms.
No I'm not a Singaporean. I am a PR and have been for quite some time. I also have a son will be doing is NS in about a year. As far as my tone is concerned, I'll put it to you this way........

Nobody is forcing you to take up PR. If you are going to make a major, possibly life-changing decision, it would stand to reason that you would find out all you could about the country "before" you signed on the dotted line.

If, on the other hand, you are taking up PR only because you don't have to leave in 2 weeks after some Singaporean Graduate takes your job.......

......and you don't bother to check out the fine print - who's to blame?

Opt-in Schemes work fine in countries when the numbers are there - but with a population of only 4 million, this country needs to find some way to ensure that they have the necessary when they need it. The only resources this country has is it's people. If you visited my links posted on the other thread regarding HOTA, you will notice that you are informed 2x years and when you get your PR as well. If I were going to think about taking up PR, knowing that the country has subsidized medical care, I think I would have done some reading at the MOH website (Ministry of Health) to find out just how much it covered so I would know how much additional insurance to carry. If you did go the the MOH website then you would have already known about HOTA before making the decision to become PR. Otherwise, maybe the government made a mistake about "Foreign Talent"

Sometimes, you need to look at the practical side of things on this small island city-state without any natural resources. It is the only example in the world like it. It has never used the commonly thought out processes but created ones that work for it. If you want to stay here then adapt or move on.

That's how it is. There is lots here I don't like either. When it gets to be more than I can handle, I'll leave.

Another thing......CPF

For the past 8 years, financial professionals in Singapore and the region could not do better than the CPF interest rates. What makes you think you can do better (risk on risk - with the same risk factor). It's only recently (last 6 months) that you can find CD's paying 3% and they are the closest to being the same level of risk. Passbook savings are still joke. And the latest Fixed Deposits paying around 3% have your money tied up just as well. The Special Account and the Medisave Accounts are paying 4% while the ordinary account is paying 2.6% and are guaranteed by the govenment. When you give up your PR you are allowed to withdraw every last cent without penalty and the CPF board with transfer your funds within 10 banking days to any bank in the world without penalty. Somebody has been feeding you a bunch of bull.

If you ever want to return and become a PR again, that's when it gets a bit sticky. However, all that has to be done is to deposit all of the withdrawn funds along with whatever interest that would have accrued during the interim while you were not a PR (in other words, having left all on deposit with the CPF board). Bit stiff, but again, only fair. I have a friend who is a Kiwi who worked here back in the early '90's when EP holders still were paying into CPF by law who has left it there all these years. He's contemplating taking up PR now as he is back working here again.

sms
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by lost_canuck » Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:46 am

sms; are you going on Deal or No deal? I wanted to apply but not a PR :(

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Post by stanleycheng » Wed, 28 Mar 2007 5:55 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
somethouht wrote:When I got my PR, my company deducted my pay to account for the Company's contribution to CPF.

I am not sure how other companies treat EP to PR conversion.

Have a nice day.
If the company is deducting their portion of CPF they are performing an illegal act.

CPF is capped at 33 percent of $4500 monthly salary. 13 percent is paid by the employer, 20 percent by the employee. Thus, if you were making $8,000, I would withhold 20 percent of your pay up to $4500 ($900), and write you a check for $7,100. I would have to pay 13 percent of $4500 ($585). The payment I make to CPF is $1,485.

I think you are being stiffed.
Hi Strong Eagle,

Recently I decided to apply for PR and request my company to complete the Form 4A that confirm the status of my employment. FYI, I apply as EP holder. Then I was told that the company will deduct their portion of the CPF from my salary. The reason is I was employed as an expat so the salary I got is slightly higher. What can I do in this case? I just started my employment in Singapore for 7 month so there's no way I will leave the company. So please advise what option i have?

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 28 Mar 2007 7:37 pm

Not SE but it's an easy answer. Legally you have two choices.

One, because they hired you as an EP holder at a higher salary (partially because they DIDN'T have to pay the employers CPF) you can renegotiate your contract if they will.

or Two, don't apply for PR until such time as your contract comes up for renewal. Then you can leave should you find it necessary. They kinda have you be the short hairs at the moment as they don't have to sign the employers affirmation unless you agree. Course, you won't get that in writing so it's your word against theirs in a country that is pro-employer unless you make less than 1,600/mo.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by stanleycheng » Fri, 30 Mar 2007 12:44 am

This is really a tough call, I want to go for the PR but do not want the CPF to burden me especially when it comes to the 3rd year where the combine contribution is 33%. So my take home pay is less 1/3, this is a lot.

Anyone with the same experience, what the company will do when I do plan to go ahead with the PR? If I withdraw at this time, my boss will think I want to get their contribution only.............both is lose lose situation

Actually what the company will lose if they contribute to PR? The CPF is tax deductible, is this correct?

:-|

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 30 Mar 2007 1:20 pm

stanleycheng wrote:This is really a tough call, I want to go for the PR but do not want the CPF to burden me especially when it comes to the 3rd year where the combine contribution is 33%. So my take home pay is less 1/3, this is a lot.

Anyone with the same experience, what the company will do when I do plan to go ahead with the PR? If I withdraw at this time, my boss will think I want to get their contribution only.............both is lose lose situation

Actually what the company will lose if they contribute to PR? The CPF is tax deductible, is this correct?

:-|
They don't lose anything if you renegotiate your contract for a lesser amount or you let them take the whole 33% from your salary (which is illegal).

However, If you go ahead with the PR application, you may well be in breach of your contract (if it says you were hired on an EP somewhere in the contract). They can also refuse to sign the sponsorship form which will shaft you unless you are applying based on family ties in Singapore (spouse).

If they let you get your PR without changing your contract they they will lose an additional 13% (again variable as a PR the 1st three years) as the Employer's CPF will have to be contributed based on your base salary as stated in the contract and you would have (after 3 years) 20% of your stated salary deducted for CPF Contributions.

My question is this........

As an HR Manager, I have noticed that the majority of times that someone goes from EP to PR they leave their job anyway within 3 months of acquiring same. I've seen them leave in less than a month in my current position.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by Strong Eagle » Fri, 30 Mar 2007 4:24 pm

stanleycheng wrote:Actually what the company will lose if they contribute to PR? The CPF is tax deductible, is this correct? :-|
CPF is a salary expense. So, if the company has sales of $200, and as an EP, pay you $100, they have a profit of $100 and owe a corporate tax of $20.

As a PR, you would make $100, they pay an extra $13, so net profit is $87. Corporate tax is now $17.40. So, they only pay $2.60 less in tax and have to pay you $13 more... and expense increase of $11.40.

You do not have to have your employer sign a form to apply for a PR. If they refuse to do so you can note this in your application and supply pay stubs, tax assessments, and copies of contract.

If I were you, the first thing I would do is review your contract as SMS suggested. Next I would call CPF and get the straight poop on whether deducting your CPF is legal given the contract.

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