Anyone's son renounced PR before NS?

[nomadinsg]

Hi all - just trying to get an understanding of the actual consequences of doing this from people's experiences when their sons were these ages:
1. 13-16.5
2. >16.5 (after registering for NS)
3. >18

I've read about the theoretical consequences, just wanted to hear some lived ones. I've heard some word-of-mouth ones of:
- not being able to get EPs later on
- being able to get EPs despite PR renunciation

ChatGPT says this

Also, I'm assuming it's not possible for just the son to renounce PR if the family got PR status in the same application, correct?

And yes, totally understand this is what we signed up for and this is probably the route we will take, but when your kid asks almost every day why they have to do NS, it starts to wear one down...

[PNGMK]

Your son has an NS obligation full stop as a second gen PR.

Avoiding it will mess his chances up in Singapore for work in the future.

You will NEVER get a definitive answer because Singapore doesn't operate openly to avoid people gaming the system.

If you need to leave, you need to leave.

[malcontent]

Even with genuine word-of-mouth, you have to take it with a grain of salt, because there is never a guarantee that what worked in the past will continue… but the trend is undeniable - - the screws only get tighter over time.

Singapore has a very unique immigration policy; you need to approach with a lot of circumspection and weigh the pros/cons very carefully.

[nomadinsg]

Indeed, I'm grasping at straws here a bit, as neither of us think it will hurt him to have a couple of years to consider what he wants to study in uni, but what can I say he seems weirdly eager to join the rat race.

[Strong Eagle]

Two thoughts for your son regarding NS. If I recall correctly, the chances of a PR being drafted into the armed forces are slim. Much more likely to be drafted into fire/rescue/EMT/some other civil service for the duration.

Second, in my dealings with Singaporean businessmen, I discovered that NS ties are like a giant fraternity, with lifelong connections. Those who have done NS get a number of perks... like the National Service Resort and Country Club. Besides reduced costs for golf and a host of other recreational activities, I can't help but think that quite a few deals get cut on the links or the tennis courts.

[PNGMK]

My son has benefited from NS. From NS he has gone into a full paid program for paramedicine and from there he plans to transition to a fully paid program in Nursing (paid - as in fees are paid and they receive a salary).

[nomadinsg]

My son has benefited from NS. From NS he has gone into a full paid program for paramedicine and from there he plans to transition to a fully paid program in Nursing (paid - as in fees are paid and they receive a salary).

Amazing! And also, how wonderful that he's going into nursing.

[malcontent]

Unless you have definite plans to migrate permanently to another country, it’s almost always best to just do it.

[nomadinsg]

Unless you have definite plans to migrate permanently to another country, it’s almost always best to just do it.

That's it, with a family of mixed nationalities like mine, nowhere feels truly permanent. Besides eventual death lol.

[SingerExpat]

True story happened to a family friend. Had two sons born and raised in Singapore as PRs. When the kids reached 18, parents decided they knew better and made their kids give up PR and go overseas for Uni with the idea , the whole family were going to migrate. End up, parents decided they didn’t like life overseas, and took up SG citizenship. Kids took on the foreign PR, could come back to singapore to visit. But can never get back their singapore PR or an EP. Parents went to see their MP multiple times (MP had zero sympathy and was pretty sarcastic), and even said their sons can come back to serve NS in their late 20a (sons were willing. Parents did not want their sons to serve). Apparently even appealed to minister of defense. But no go. So now parents are in Singapore. Sons can never return to singapore for long term stays and the sons are estranged from their parents for this life changing decision. Bottom line, your son is free to give
Up PR and unlike a citizen giving up his passport, he will still be allowed to visit as a tourist. But giving up PR and skipping NS will guarantee all future PR applications will be rejected, and even EP will not be possible. Yr son can only visit singapore as a tourist based on the visa conditions of his nationality. And it is an irreversible action.

[SingaporeEP]

I have been considering applying PR, but I always hold back on the thought of ‘what if’ we need to move for work 10 years down and how will that impact prospects for the kid to find future employment in Singapore, after having given up PR a few years ago.

Are the potential repercussions/consequences same if you cancel PR at age 5-10 vs 15-16 (NS age)?

[nomadinsg]

True story happened to a family friend. Had two sons born and raised in Singapore as PRs. When the kids reached 18, parents decided they knew better and made their kids give up PR and go overseas for Uni with the idea , the whole family were going to migrate. End up, parents decided they didn’t like life overseas, and took up SG citizenship. Kids took on the foreign PR, could come back to singapore to visit. But can never get back their singapore PR or an EP. Parents went to see their MP multiple times (MP had zero sympathy and was pretty sarcastic), and even said their sons can come back to serve NS in their late 20a (sons were willing. Parents did not want their sons to serve). Apparently even appealed to minister of defense. But no go. So now parents are in Singapore. Sons can never return to singapore for long term stays and the sons are estranged from their parents for this life changing decision. Bottom line, your son is free to give
Up PR and unlike a citizen giving up his passport, he will still be allowed to visit as a tourist. But giving up PR and skipping NS will guarantee all future PR applications will be rejected, and even EP will not be possible. Yr son can only visit singapore as a tourist based on the visa conditions of his nationality. And it is an irreversible action.

Hey thanks for your story. Honestly I'm surprised the kids could give up PR and the parents keep theirs and even get citizenship! Guess it was a while ago, because that doesn't seem possible now.

[nomadinsg]

I have been considering applying PR, but I always hold back on the thought of ‘what if’ we need to move for work 10 years down and how will that impact prospects for the kid to find future employment in Singapore, after having given up PR a few years ago.

Are the potential repercussions/consequences same if you cancel PR at age 5-10 vs 15-16 (NS age)?

No idea. You would think though that if you left while the kids were little you weren't just going it to dodge NS.

I just met someone who's been here >20 years on EP, waited till his kid turned 17 to give him the choice to decide whether or not he wanted to do NS, kid said yes, but when the family applied for PR they were rejected, and they're planning to try again.

[PNGMK]

True story happened to a family friend. Had two sons born and raised in Singapore as PRs. When the kids reached 18, parents decided they knew better and made their kids give up PR and go overseas for Uni with the idea , the whole family were going to migrate. End up, parents decided they didn’t like life overseas, and took up SG citizenship. Kids took on the foreign PR, could come back to singapore to visit. But can never get back their singapore PR or an EP. Parents went to see their MP multiple times (MP had zero sympathy and was pretty sarcastic), and even said their sons can come back to serve NS in their late 20a (sons were willing. Parents did not want their sons to serve). Apparently even appealed to minister of defense. But no go. So now parents are in Singapore. Sons can never return to singapore for long term stays and the sons are estranged from their parents for this life changing decision. Bottom line, your son is free to give
Up PR and unlike a citizen giving up his passport, he will still be allowed to visit as a tourist. But giving up PR and skipping NS will guarantee all future PR applications will be rejected, and even EP will not be possible. Yr son can only visit singapore as a tourist based on the visa conditions of his nationality. And it is an irreversible action.

Yep - K Steele's sons did the same - they've been offered jobs at very high roles here and the CMPB simply respond "There are outstanding issues" and MOM cannot issue an EP. He deeply regrets that decision as he is firmly established here. If there are exceptions I don't know what the basis.

[SingerExpat]

Yeap. This family friends were Malaysians and been here since the late 1970s. Kids grew up
And went to local schools. So for all
Intents and purposes, they were raised as Singaporeans. But got totally screwed by parents decision. Funny thing, kids were willing to serve. Parents didn’t want them to. So the door to move back to singapore permanently has been forever shut. Now if kid give up PR but parents don’t, maybe the parents Re entry permit will not be renewed. Not sure tho. But pretty sure about consequences for the kids