Thoughts/advice for relocating back to SG with spouse and child

[uglymale]

Hi! First of all, as a lurker on this forum let me express my gratitude to this community - you are a godsend to people like me who have a international family and need to navigate so many process and procedures. Most of my friends/family are clueless about such things and cannot really help.

I would like to consult you guys on my situation... Appreciate any thoughts/advice from anybody:

(Myself):
Nationality: Singaporean
Race: Chinese
Age: early 40s
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married since Feb 2022
Degree: Masters in IT (USA)
Occupation: Manager in Tech company / FTE
Basic salary: 200K/year
** Currently residing overseas (Japan)

(Spouse):
Nationality: Japanese
Race: Japanese
Age: late 30s
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Married since Feb 2022
Degree: Masters in Social Science (Japan)
Occupation: Sales operations in Tech company / FTE
Basic salary: 100K/year
Years in SG: <6 months
Pass Type: LTVP, expired in Jun 2023
** Currently residing overseas (Japan)

(Child):
Nationality: Japanese
Race: Mixed Japanese/Chinese
Age: Newborn, <1 year
Gender: Male
Pass Type: Probably applying for SC soon
** Currently residing overseas (Japan)

Background:
(a) My wife and I got married in 2022 after a 5 year relationship. At that time I was still employed in Singapore and she in Japan. Original plan was for her to relocate to Singapore and find a job.
(b) She came to Singapore in 2022, and successfully applied for LTVP+PLOC with 1 year validity. Unfortunately, after a few months, her parents had health issues and she had to return to Japan to care for them where she still is now. Both LTVP+PLOC have expired in 2023, though she still has her FIN card. She has made a couple of visits back to SG on tourist pass without issue, other than not being able to get GST refund.
(c) After she went back to Japan, I decided to join her in late 2022 and have been employed in Japan since.
(d) This year (2024), she gave birth to our son and now we are a family of 3 Since he was born in Japan and has a Japanese parent, he received Japan citizenship automatically. He also qualifies for Singapore citizenship through me, but I have not applied for him yet.
(e) Our intention is to relocate to Singapore in late 2025 or 2026 long term. Motivation is to look after my own aging parents, and for son to grow up in a different environment (company of my extended family, better education, more international exposure.. etc). Assuming that my son is granted SC, I want to sponsor my wife for LTVP+PLOC first and then PR in future.

Questions:
(1) My wife is still holding on to her FIN card though LTVP has expired. Does she need to return this card before reapplying for LTVP?
(2) Am I right to say this will be a brand new LTVP application?
(3) Previously, we had PMLA before applying for LTVP and therefore it only took 6 weeks to process. However, since we are already married and do not have PMLA, how long will it take this time?
(4) Can we start the LTVP process in Japan and only go to Singapore after its approved? Given that we need to wait unknown amount of time and how long it will take for me to find jobs in the current job market and have to depend on savings, a few extra months of her income and childcare is precious to us before we uproot.
(5) Is there a chance it will NOT be approved?
(6) Will getting son's SC first be advantageous to wife's LTVP application?
(7) What are wife's chances of getting PR? I am doubtful because it seems there is a quota system and she falls in the "Others" category. When would be the ideal time to apply for PR?

(bonus) If you were me, would you get SC for your son and taking up the NS obligation? I'm 90% sure I want to (my wife too), but as a (first time) parent and somebody who did NS, I can't help getting some doubts/anxieties e.g. injury during NS, him upset about the choice I made for him. What are advantages of SC (e.g. Baby Bonus)? Is it possible for him to stay in SG long term without getting SC/PR and not do NS? Additionally if my wife is not able to get LTVP (or PR), then it really makes no sense for him to get SC?

Thank you for reading up to here! I will appreciate your objective thoughts/advice.

[PNGMK]

You'll get LTVP.

I'm going to be brutally frank.

I've seen more mixed Japanese marriages fail than any other and I've seen more issues with non Japanese fathers losing access to their kids (like 100% of the time) that any other. We have a well known poster here who can allude to that.

For THAT reason alone, if you can relocate and lock your son into Singapore I would. Under no circumstance should you let him move back to Japan with your wife on their own.

[malcontent]

Certainly one should consider how to protect themselves in any cross-border marriage. I’m not sure taking up SC guarantees anything in that regard… but have you seen what it costs to send a non-citizen to school here lately? There’s also P1 registration to think about.

BTW, I still believe the vast majority of Japanese women are genuinely good and make great wives, but there can always be a bad apple in any batch.

[NYY1]

I also think there is a very high chance for your wife to get LTVP and eventually PR (assuming the child is a SC).

I'm not sure when in 2024 your son was born, but within a year he is likely eligible for citizenship by descent. After a year, you can still apply for him. I'm not 100% sure but I would think the former is probably processed faster.

The child should be able to stay in Singapore via an LTVP, but doing so may kill the chance of him working/living in Singapore in the future when he's an adult.

[uglymale]

You'll get LTVP.

I'm going to be brutally frank.

I've seen more mixed Japanese marriages fail than any other and I've seen more issues with non Japanese fathers losing access to their kids (like 100% of the time) that any other. We have a well known poster here who can allude to that.

For THAT reason alone, if you can relocate and lock your son into Singapore I would. Under no circumstance should you let him move back to Japan with your wife on their own.

thanks for your reply and concern. its a well known topic in the foreign community here in japan as well, caused by the inadequate laws here. believe me, i've thought long and hard about this! i don't know what the future holds, but ultimately marriage and having a child is a leap of faith and i need to put my trust in my wife and our relationship.

[uglymale]

Certainly one should consider how to protect themselves in any cross-border marriage. I’m not sure taking up SC guarantees anything in that regard… but have you seen what it costs to send a non-citizen to school here lately? There’s also P1 registration to think about.

BTW, I still believe the vast majority of Japanese women are genuinely good and make great wives, but there can always be a bad apple in any batch.

having been traveling frequently and practically living outside singapore for most of the last 10 years, i have no admit i have lost touch with cost of living, especially as a parent! its something i'm anxious about as well, not to mention to weak job market. do you have any idea about my questions 1-4? i want save up as much buffer as possible and save some time before relocating.

PS, like women of all nationalities there are really all types, and same for Japan: there are those that are career driven, those that are a little crazy, and everything in between. while i think i've managed to find somebody that is kind and i'm thankful, check in with me in 10 years and i'll let you know if she has evolved like a pokemon.

[malcontent]

1. Not unless they ask. If the card has no expiry (QR code) they might expect you to reuse, hold onto it.

2. I would try renewal. Either way, they’ll know she was approved previously.

3. Why would you do PMLA again?

4. We have seen other cases of successful LTVP when applied from abroad.

[uglymale]

1. Not unless they ask. If the card has no expiry (QR code) they might expect you to reuse, hold onto it.

2. I would try renewal. Either way, they’ll know she was approved previously.

3. Why would you do PMLA again?

4. We have seen other cases of successful LTVP when applied from abroad.

thanks for your reply. re: 3, i understand PMLA doesn't apply anymore as we are married. so does that mean that processing will take a much longer time?

[malcontent]

1. Not unless they ask. If the card has no expiry (QR code) they might expect you to reuse, hold onto it.

2. I would try renewal. Either way, they’ll know she was approved previously.

3. Why would you do PMLA again?

4. We have seen other cases of successful LTVP when applied from abroad.

thanks for your reply. re: 3, i understand PMLA doesn't apply anymore as we are married. so does that mean that processing will take a much longer time?

It’s never a predictable timeframe. It can depend on how many applications they are handling at the time… what side of the bed the officer reviewing your case woke up on… or, they might even question your financial ability to support your family after you move back to Singapore.

If you ask them how long it takes… they will repeat their favorite line: it’s on a case by case basis.

[PNGMK]

You'll get LTVP.

I'm going to be brutally frank.

I've seen more mixed Japanese marriages fail than any other and I've seen more issues with non Japanese fathers losing access to their kids (like 100% of the time) that any other. We have a well known poster here who can allude to that.

For THAT reason alone, if you can relocate and lock your son into Singapore I would. Under no circumstance should you let him move back to Japan with your wife on their own.

thanks for your reply and concern. its a well known topic in the foreign community here in japan as well, caused by the inadequate laws here. believe me, i've thought long and hard about this! i don't know what the future holds, but ultimately marriage and having a child is a leap of faith and i need to put my trust in my wife and our relationship.

No problem. Glad you've thought ahead. The Japanese courts are incredible unfair to foreign fathers, but the Singapore courts are moving towards a shared custody model which is much fairer.

[MOCHS]

1. Not unless they ask. If the card has no expiry (QR code) they might expect you to reuse, hold onto it.

2. I would try renewal. Either way, they’ll know she was approved previously.

3. Why would you do PMLA again?

4. We have seen other cases of successful LTVP when applied from abroad.

thanks for your reply. re: 3, i understand PMLA doesn't apply anymore as we are married. so does that mean that processing will take a much longer time?

It’s already clearly stated under “Processing Time” in the ICA website.

Applications will be processed within 6 weeks provided all the required documents are submitted and in order. For multiple products applied for within a single application, the processing time will be based on the product with the longer processing time. Some applications may take longer to process.

An LTVP application by a foreign spouse of a Singapore citizen who did not submit the Pre-Marriage Long-Term Visit Pass Assessment (PMLA) will take up to 6 months to be processed.

You will be informed of the outcome of the LTVP application via email. You may also check the LTVP application status online at MyICA or the e-Service.

[uglymale]

It’s already clearly stated under “Processing Time” in the ICA website.

Applications will be processed within 6 weeks provided all the required documents are submitted and in order. For multiple products applied for within a single application, the processing time will be based on the product with the longer processing time. Some applications may take longer to process.

An LTVP application by a foreign spouse of a Singapore citizen who did not submit the Pre-Marriage Long-Term Visit Pass Assessment (PMLA) will take up to 6 months to be processed.

You will be informed of the outcome of the LTVP application via email. You may also check the LTVP application status online at MyICA or the e-Service.

hi MOCHS, thanks for your reply and quoting the ICA website. i'm a little thrown off by the interpretation in my situation because when we applied the LTVP the first time round, we did the PMLA first and the processing took 6 weeks. now that we are applying LTVP second time, it seems to make no sense to do PMLA again as we are already married. so in your response you are saying it will take 6 months this time?

[malcontent]

It’s already clearly stated under “Processing Time” in the ICA website.

Applications will be processed within 6 weeks provided all the required documents are submitted and in order. For multiple products applied for within a single application, the processing time will be based on the product with the longer processing time. Some applications may take longer to process.

An LTVP application by a foreign spouse of a Singapore citizen who did not submit the Pre-Marriage Long-Term Visit Pass Assessment (PMLA) will take up to 6 months to be processed.

You will be informed of the outcome of the LTVP application via email. You may also check the LTVP application status online at MyICA or the e-Service.

hi MOCHS, thanks for your reply and quoting the ICA website. i'm a little thrown off by the interpretation in my situation because when we applied the LTVP the first time round, we did the PMLA first and the processing took 6 weeks. now that we are applying LTVP second time, it seems to make no sense to do PMLA again as we are already married. so in your response you are saying it will take 6 months this time?

You’d need to divorce her to reapply PMLA.

There’s no more premarital anymore, you have consummated the marriage and produced offspring as a result. Now you can only apply for EMLA (extramarital assessment) to further check on your spouse’s fidelity

[MOCHS]

so in your response you are saying it will take 6 months this time?

Maybe. Who knows? You are searching for a definite answer that we cannot give because we are not ICA.

I would have said that you should have renewed the LTVP even if the entire family was overseas at that time in 2023.

But the past is the past. You won’t know the result until you submit the application.

[malcontent]

I have to believe that the 6 months guidance is for those who marry without doing any PMLA. I would be surprised if it applies to you. But as MOCHS rightly pointed out, we can never know for sure. And, even if the 6 weeks guidance applies to you, it clearly states that it can exceed that if they need more info, etc.