"The game" in Singapore is rigged by the government for the citizens

[raptor_from_vietnam]

After living here for quite a number of years, I think Singapore is perhaps one of the best places to be born in. You don't need to be excellent, anyone with decent caliber can make it here, if you are a local. Think about it. If you are a Singaporean couple, you can BTO to get a flat at vastly subsidized rate compared to the market. After 5 years, they can flip it and pocket a few hundred Ks of profit, if not even half a million. Then they use the money to upgrade to a condo. After a short while, they can flip the condo for another few hundred Ks of profit. Anyone with a decent paying job, no need top percentile, just any MNC or cushy government job would be able to pull such a game to a certain extent. "The game" is incredibly easy compared to other countries. Even in other Asian economies now, like Japan, China, Korea, their youth are suffering financially, and only the top caliber people, or those with inheritance, can pull off a game plan to succeed financially. But here in Singapore, it's like the government just gives the locals a big leg up. You can be mediocre here and achieve the same financial success as the top people elsewhere. I think life is relatively easy for Singaporeans nowadays. What do you guys think?

[malcontent]

I have always called it “the way” but “the game” is an equally suitable description.

On a side note, I just re-watched the movie “The Game” which is currently on Netflix… a truly superb movie if you haven’t seen it.

But, yes, citizenship has some perks. If either or both of my kids decide to take up citizenship here, I will strongly advise them to follow “the way” by using CPF OA to BTO after ROM and once MOP, get another BTO. Two chances in a lifetime, and better to do it earlier than later. It’s also a great recipe to reach FIRE faster. Imagine having a fully paid off HDB that you can rent out — the income from that alone is easily enough to live well in a nearby country at a fraction of the cost, and you’ll still have CPF to boot. Any other investments will just be gravy.

[Addadude]

Imagine having a fully paid off HDB that you can rent out — the income from that alone is easily enough to live well in a nearby country at a fraction of the cost, and you’ll still have CPF to boot. Any other investments will just be gravy.

I could do that right now. Alas, my better half has no intention of ever leaving her beloved Singapore.

[malcontent]

Imagine having a fully paid off HDB that you can rent out — the income from that alone is easily enough to live well in a nearby country at a fraction of the cost, and you’ll still have CPF to boot. Any other investments will just be gravy.

I could do that right now. Alas, my better half has no intention of ever leaving her beloved Singapore.

Same for my SO… were it not for our son in SAS and on a DP (with no long-term Singapore prospects), I wouldn’t have been able to pry her away from Singapore.

[PNGMK]

I was thinking similar thoughts while in Japan recently (and prior to that MY, TH and even Australia). I do think Singapore is falling behind a little but what other global city houses it's people like this?

[malcontent]

I was thinking similar thoughts while in Japan recently (and prior to that MY, TH and even Australia). I do think Singapore is falling behind a little but what other global city houses it's people like this?

Definitely. Immigrants here often justify the high cost of living as worth it in exchange for the perceived safety and lifestyle. Such people are not the kinds of risk takers that drive a dynamic economy.

There has always been a “play safe” mentality here, and it permeates almost everything. When the world is in meltdown, it’s where you want to be… but in good times, you miss out.

[PNGMK]

I was thinking similar thoughts while in Japan recently (and prior to that MY, TH and even Australia). I do think Singapore is falling behind a little but what other global city houses it's people like this?

Definitely. Immigrants here often justify the high cost of living as worth it in exchange for the perceived safety and lifestyle. Such people are not the kinds of risk takers that drive a dynamic economy.

There has always been a “play safe” mentality here, and it permeates almost everything. When the world is in meltdown, it’s where you want to be… but in good times, you miss out.

My primary concern is that the ever increasing blind eye to corruption and rot here. You know who shouldn't (and wouldn't) be issuing POFMAs if old Pinky was around.

[raptor_from_vietnam]

I was thinking similar thoughts while in Japan recently (and prior to that MY, TH and even Australia). I do think Singapore is falling behind a little but what other global city houses it's people like this?

Definitely. Immigrants here often justify the high cost of living as worth it in exchange for the perceived safety and lifestyle. Such people are not the kinds of risk takers that drive a dynamic economy.

There has always been a “play safe” mentality here, and it permeates almost everything. When the world is in meltdown, it’s where you want to be… but in good times, you miss out.

I agree on the "play safe" mindset. It is basically the national mindset here. The thing is, the locals can afford to play safe and still have a decent life. Just play by the rule: get a decent degree, find a decent job, BTO, upgrade to condo, etc. It has worked for the past few decades here. I dont think this is a recipe to survive the next few though. Other Southeast Asian countries are catching up fast. Playing safe may get Singapore here, but not where it wants to be next.

[Wd40]

You are right in your assessment. However, if you look around you, it is not like you will find a lot of people who are happy. So success or "making it" is a relative vs what is your expectations out of life and vs everyone else around you.

If you are born in Vietnam or India, in a reasonably privileged family, by privileged, I dont mean like rich, but just having educated parents working in white collar jobs and you have an education, you are already better than 80% of the population. But in Singapore everyone has an education and so to be privileged in Singapore, the bar is way higher.

Also I feel in countries like India and Vietnam, being a white collar IT worker, you are already in the top 5-1 percentile and just relative to your surroundings you feel so successful. I was in India last month and there you can order groceries online for cheap, you can drive a car, you can buy a landed house etc and feel so privileged. I know Singaporeans will say, pollution and traffic and blah blah blah, but to me, all those issues impact mostly the bottom of the pyramid people. The top 5-1% of the population which we belong to, live very happy and privileged lives.

[raptor_from_vietnam]

I think it is wise to do geo arbitrage - to earn in Singapore and spend in cheaper countries. I think you would not want to be a fresh grad in China, Vietnam or India nowadays. There are just too many of them competing for few jobs, and they will never be able to buy properties with just their salary alone.

[the observer]

Being bottom percentile any where is horrible.
Being top percentile any where is great.

So let’s ignore the tails and talk about the middle of the bell curve.

I think there’s a chance your future generations may end up. “Everyone wishes for success, but there’s no guarantees”

So the question you shld ask is which country is best for the average joe.

As it stands, I find sg less restrictive for social mobility.

https://www3.weforum.org/docs/Global_So ... Report.pdf

[Wd40]

I think it is wise to do geo arbitrage - to earn in Singapore and spend in cheaper countries. I think you would not want to be a fresh grad in China, Vietnam or India nowadays. There are just too many of them competing for few jobs, and they will never be able to buy properties with just their salary alone.

If you are a fresh graduate in India, China or Vietnam and you are from a reasonably okay to do family, like for example our own kids will eventually be fresh grads in one of these countries; it is not so bad. Their parents have already earned enough the kids can explore whatever they want to do and more likely than not they will do well.

I know many second generation Indian PR kids here and most of them don't even get into one of the unis. Their ambition is poly. But in India the kids do engineering as bare minimum and then get into campus placement into one of the tech companies and they do well in India or even move abroad.

[Wd40]

Being bottom percentile any where is horrible.
Being top percentile any where is great.

So let’s ignore the tails and talk about the middle of the bell curve.

I think there’s a chance your future generations may end up. “Everyone wishes for success, but there’s no guarantees”

So the question you shld ask is which country is best for the average joe.

As it stands, I find sg less restrictive for social mobility.

https://www3.weforum.org/docs/Global_So ... Report.pdf

Singapore is great for the bottom percentile. They are well taken care off.

My point is about the barrier to feel that you have arrived or made it is quite high in Singapore. Yes you can buy a HDB, but then you get tied down to a mortgage and feel chained.

The barrier to buy a car or a condo which is really the barrier to feel that you have arrived; is quite high. Only people who are in the top percentile can afford this.

But in India, even average IQ people can afford a car and rent a nice apartment and feel privileged.

[Wd40]

Actually, the fact that Singaporeans have the lowest fertility rate and don't want to have kids, actually tells you everything you need to know about the "privilege" of being born in Singapore, doesn't it?

[the observer]

Actually, the fact that Singaporeans have the lowest fertility rate and don't want to have kids, actually tells you everything you need to know about the "privilege" of being born in Singapore, doesn't it?

It’s prevalent amongst East Asians though. Korea, Japan, Taiwan…