My PR chances ?

[Potatwo]

Hi, would be curious to know what would be our chances to get a Singapore PR. Given what I read on this forum, I am a bit worried we might not make it.

Me (husband):
Nationality: French
Age: 31
Highest degree: PhD (Robotics) from a French Uni (not one of those that give bonus points for EP applications). Made patent applications during my time in SG, related to my work.
Salary: 168k per year
Position: Senior Machine Learning Engineer (expecting a promotion soon)
In SG since March 2021 under EP.

Wife:
Nationality: Chinese.
Age: 32
Highest degree: Master's degree in Computer Science -- same uni as me.
Salary: 94k per year.
Position: Senior IT consultant
In SG since May 2021, DP until August 2021, EP since then.

So yes, we came to Singapore during the COVID-19 period -- we both served some quarantine time upon arrival. In case this can (marginally) help.

We'd like to settle down in SG and start a family here, but do not really want to consider doing so without a PR. Though I understand that PRs are more about how people can contribute to society than giving security to expats.

[newsingaporeuser]

Just looking at your profile, I would say your chances are probably quite low.

Your field is definitely something that is very appealing but you haven't been in Singapore for that long so that stands against you.

The problem you face is that you aren't competing against everyone else. You are specifically competing against your nationality/ethnic group. I know a lot of French people in financial services as well as in the technology sector earning quite a bit more than you.

As therefore with respect to your wife, she is competing against all the other Chinese applying. And, as a "senior" IT consultant, I would expect her to be earning maybe 3 times she is earning - just to give you a reference point for what her cohort are earning.

Singapore has really clamped down on PRs (unless you are Malaysian Chinese), so if you want to, just apply and see how it goes but don't expect anything.

[Potatwo]

That's basically the answer I was expecting. Thanks anyway.

Just wondering where other Frenchies work in SG -- I work for an American company that bought an SG start-up, which they consolidated as their local office, while I think French engineers tend to work for French companies in SG (Thales, STMicro, Air Liquide...). But I might be wrong.

Kinda surprised by the salary you would expect my wife to earn at her level though, even if I indeed think she could be making much more. Maybe she should try to apply somewhere else.

[Max Headroom]

Wait a while longer, then just apply. That is, if you're really keen to get PR and stay in Singapore long-term.

On the face of it, odds of approval may not be high per se, but there are intangible factors at play here too, as you hinted to in your post. Apart from them, you also have a few tailwinds going for you.

Incidentally, can I ask, what's your rationale for the longer-term horizon in Singapore? I mean, as opposed to just going back to France ultimately.

[Potatwo]

Two main things.

First, from a professional stand-point, industrial prospects are much better here for me than in France, given my specialty (3D perception).

And as a sino-french couple, Singapore also makes sense for us, from a "cultural" standpoint.

[smoulder]

I would think that you have a better chance of success than a French French couple for instance. Mainly because of your wife being from the majority ethnicity, and despite not being Malaysian.

You tick some of the other boxes already - education, job, combined income and age.

Other things that could help -
1. Children
2. Not living in an enclave highly populated with expats.

[newsingaporeuser]

That's basically the answer I was expecting. Thanks anyway.

Just wondering where other Frenchies work in SG -- I work for an American company that bought an SG start-up, which they consolidated as their local office, while I think French engineers tend to work for French companies in SG (Thales, STMicro, Air Liquide...). But I might be wrong.

Kinda surprised by the salary you would expect my wife to earn at her level though, even if I indeed think she could be making much more. Maybe she should try to apply somewhere else.

Look if you are earning a decent amount (which you are), there is no real reason for you not to apply immediately and try your luck. I know some people disagree with me but you never know how the wind blows.
The real cost when it comes to the application is getting all the paperwork together. I always found that a chore when applying for PR, LTP or whatever it might be! The actual financial cost is pretty low.

With respect to your wife's salary, it's not a bad salary. I was not denigrating it and apologies if it came across that way. I guess the question is: is she an IT consultant, or a consultant who works solving IT issues - one is a specialist IT person (i.e. with a technical degree), the latter is someone with a non technical degree. If it's the latter I would have expected something starting from around 10k/month (which is kind of where she is). If it's the former, then she could be earning 20k/month salary at a full blown tech firm (e.g. multiple advertised jobs as front/backend engineers) - this would not include cash and RSU bonuses.

[Potatwo]

Oh no worries, I was not feeling like you were degrading my wife's salary ! Anyway, I also agree with the fact that her salary seems a bit low.

She has a technical degree, but she's mostly been involved in non-technical tasks lately, as the actual developments got outsourced abroad -- she's mostly interacting with clients and users, and managing some aspects of a given project, which again makes me think that her salary is a bit low. I don't think she could revert back to being a back-end / front-end engineer, but let's see.

Anyway, thank you all for your feedback ! And I agree with you, paperwork is a chore...

[raptor_from_vietnam]

Your PR chance may be low now. But you should apply as soon as you can. The number of applications matters. Some people eventually will get it approved after many rounds of rejection. If the 1st one is a rejection anyway, might as well it get over as early as you can.