15 years in Singapore!

[Wd40]

It has been about a month since we came back to India. We are staying in the upper floor of the landed house of my parents. It was empty when we came and we initially lived with our parents and bought all the furnitures needed. This was really exciting because it was the first time we were buying furniture of our choice. The 16 years we spent in SG, it was always fully furnished houses and we made sure we didnt buy anything, because we didnt want to accumulate stuff as we were on EP.

We moved to our own house in 2 weeks and now everything is set. I bought a nice motorcycle and everyday I drop my daughter to school and pick her up. I love riding the bike and it is the best part of my day and I sorely missed riding in SG. My daughter loves her new school, it has way more extracurricular activities than the intl school we put her in SG.

The biggest positive is that I can see and speak to my parents everyday. Also my uncle lives nearby and he is my beer buddy, he calls me for a drink couple of times a week.

We love the fact that everything here feels like it is made for us, nothing is foreign. The language, the people, the culture, the food, everything feels home. In Singapore, we always felt like outsiders. We didnt know the local language. It is funny we stayed 16 years in SG, but dont know more than 2 or 3 words of Mandarin.

Our neighbourhood here in Bangalore also feels so lively and happening. Although for a foreigner it may seem chaotic. There are all kinds of shops and eateries the moment we step out of our home. In Singapore, the place we lived, it was all HDB HDBs all around.

The one month we stayed feels like eternity, it feels like we never left Bangalore at all. Singapore 16 years feels just like a long term vacation. Singapore was definitely awesome place, but somehow we never felt at home there.

So, based on Initial impressions, our move bank home is a massive success. It is like we didnt leave India, because we didnt like it or anything. It is just that I got an opportunity to move to SG and initially I hated SG, the fact that I couldnt buy a car, we lived in expensive rental houses etc. Over time we started valuing the safety and way SG is so organized and we thought we would get addicted to it. But far from the truth, we are back to how we were before we came to SG. We will surely be grateful for the exposure and experiences we had in SG and the financial independence we have achieved.

So that is my update after 1 month.

Cheers

[smoulder]

Great to see that you are not having reverse culture shock. That is definitely an important factor to help you settle back in as quickly as possible.

[NYY1]

Congrats Wd40!

[malcontent]

Love the update WD. I’m going on 6 months now and I wish I could say it felt like my wife and I never left - but my wife only lived 5 years in the US in the early 90’s, and we spent all that time in the Midwest. Now we are on the West Coast, plus we were in our 20’s back then, and now we are in our 50’s… so I’ve come to accept that things will NEVER be the same. However, that doesn’t mean we can’t have a different life that we enjoy - and I would say we are finding ways to do that. Our focus right now is on getting our kids through college, and so far that is going as well as can be expected… but we did hit one snag with qualifying for in-state tuition (subsidy), with one school not counting our time spent in-state prior to my wife applying for PR… that means Fall 2026 before we stop paying through the nose.

[PNGMK]

After being in Australia for 10 days in June...I am wondering if it's time to move back too.

[malcontent]

After being in Australia for 10 days in June...I am wondering if it's time to move back too.

I think it’s important to focus on benefits rather than nostalgia.

Some benefits I wanted to impart on my kids by moving back: more street smart, more broad minded, culturally flexible & linguistically sophisticated… and I see this happening regularly.

And then there are things like being able to afford landed property without ABSD or SSD.

[raptor_from_vietnam]

Congratulations Mr. Wd40! I just saw this thread today. I am facing the uncertainty of whether I can settle down in Singapore too. Your life story has been an incredible source of encouragement for me.

[Strong Eagle]

After being in Australia for 10 days in June...I am wondering if it's time to move back too.

I left Singapore a bit more than 10 years ago... a combination of circumstances... a wife that wanted to go "home" and a global recession that both killed by business and changed the entire business model in which I had successfully operated.

At first this was very difficult. Not only did I enjoy living in Singapore, I loved the opportunity to travel to many countries and meet many different people. Back in the states, I was/am just one more old white guy... in fact, my experience mattered less than my age while job hunting... a real pisser.

But, moving on 10 years later, I have a different perspective. The wife and I traveled to Singapore in 2018 and while it was great to return, both of us couldn't quite see living there anymore. What was previously "quaint", if you will, about Singapore society moved into the "irritating" column. And being in Texas, there are so many different things to do and see (republicans notwithstanding)... indeed, so many things to see and do on the continent... not to mention re-establishing long time relationships with friends and family.

Singapore was a great run but on the whole, we knew that we'd never be fully accepted into society... we are "Ang Mo"... and while our neighbors were friendly, they were distant. And unless we became citizens, participation in politics was not possible.

There are exceptions like SMS, who has pretty much fully integrated into Singapore but I think his story is rare amongst expats. My advice to anyone considering Singapore is that it's a great adventure for 5 to 15 years but make plans for the future, for there is no certainty in Singapore that you will be able to stay.

[RobSg]

Strong Eagle, I could not agree more. I called Singapore home for 25 years, and that includes keeping a place there while I ventured off to other countries to teach. I moved back to the States in late 2013 and wondered if I made a mistake. I loved the simple life in Singapore with food courts, not needing a car and walking everywhere. I was set to retire there, but like Strong Eagle said, I knew there was no way I would be totally accepted and integrated there even after all these years. I gave up my PR and returned to the States. I live on the border with Vancouver, Canada and drive up there quite often to visit friends. There are Singapore type food courts all over the place. I often drive up to Vancouver to get takeout, and return to the States to eat it.

At 78 now and comfortable on Medicare and with my trusty Labrador Retriever, I am very contented with my life. I still enjoy coming to this forum and seeing how life is in Singapore. That will always be a part of me.

[jalanjalan]

I wonder if the main hurdle to integrating in Singapore is largely due to most expats not living in HDB. And not just living in the flat but hanging around the neighbourhood, going to the community centre, neighbourhood parks, local shops. I live near an active ageing centre and my goodness.. if the aunties and uncles catch you they will talk your ear off. The kids are about the same. Just the working adults are often too preoccupied so can seem distant.

[malcontent]

I wonder if the main hurdle to integrating in Singapore is largely due to most expats not living in HDB. And not just living in the flat but hanging around the neighbourhood, going to the community centre, neighbourhood parks, local shops. I live near an active ageing centre and my goodness.. if the aunties and uncles catch you they will talk your ear off. The kids are about the same. Just the working adults are often too preoccupied so can seem distant.

I lived in an HDB for my first 3 years in Singapore, and I’m not sure how much it helped me integrate. As a young person (24 at the time) you don’t tend to mix much with the aunties and uncles. However, I had a major advantage with my significant other (SO) pretty much a local… I was sitting down to chicken rice and a barley water on day one. And just 4 months in I met some local guys my age from the office and we hung out all the time, they taught me a lot of choice Hokkien phrases (it was still a thing back then, hardly today (in fact, when I use Hokkien in the hawker center nowadays I often get corrected with the proper Mandarin, which is at least mildly irritating).

So overall, I would say the “real” connections mattered and not casual interactions in my HDB life.

[Wd40]

I wonder if the main hurdle to integrating in Singapore is largely due to most expats not living in HDB. And not just living in the flat but hanging around the neighbourhood, going to the community centre, neighbourhood parks, local shops. I live near an active ageing centre and my goodness.. if the aunties and uncles catch you they will talk your ear off. The kids are about the same. Just the working adults are often too preoccupied so can seem distant.

We lived in HDB all throughout my 16 years tenure.
Reason for not integrating is simply because we are not encouraged to integrate.
By expats, I am assuming you mean EP holders. We have no chance of getting PR. We have no chance of getting our kids in local school. We have no chance of buying a house and settling down. So it is by design that the system wants us to come and work and leave once we are done.

We are kind of invisible and we are not part of the core society. The funny part is none of our neighbours would even talk or smile at us. There was no community spirit. I mean it is multicultural for name sake. We would bump into the same people but neither they nor us acknowledge each other's existence. The last house we stayed for 7 years! I mean nobody would even notice that we are gone. When we shifted to Jurong in 2018, there were lots of Indian families and all the Indian kids would play in the playground. But now the demographics has completely changed. No Indian kids at all.

My wife did participate in CC activities, she even participated in the NDP as part of the Indian dance contingent, crochet group, she volunteered for Nila, Chingay etc. But none of that made her a part of their inner circle.

Anyways, maybe this was in the best interest of everyone, no regrets, we enjoyed our time in Singapore, but it just felt like a very very long term holiday of 16 years. As if 16 years just disappeared and we are back to living our normal lives back in India again, as if the 16 years were just a dream.

[PNGMK]

I wonder if the main hurdle to integrating in Singapore is largely due to most expats not living in HDB. And not just living in the flat but hanging around the neighbourhood, going to the community centre, neighbourhood parks, local shops. I live near an active ageing centre and my goodness.. if the aunties and uncles catch you they will talk your ear off. The kids are about the same. Just the working adults are often too preoccupied so can seem distant.

We lived in HDB all throughout my 16 years tenure.
Reason for not integrating is simply because we are not encouraged to integrate.
By expats, I am assuming you mean EP holders. We have no chance of getting PR. We have no chance of getting our kids in local school. We have no chance of buying a house and settling down. So it is by design that the system wants us to come and work and leave once we are done.

We are kind of invisible and we are not part of the core society. The funny part is none of our neighbours would even talk or smile at us. There was no community spirit. I mean it is multicultural for name sake. We would bump into the same people but neither they nor us acknowledge each other's existence. The last house we stayed for 7 years! I mean nobody would even notice that we are gone. When we shifted to Jurong in 2018, there were lots of Indian families and all the Indian kids would play in the playground. But now the demographics has completely changed. No Indian kids at all.

My wife did participate in CC activities, she even participated in the NDP as part of the Indian dance contingent, crochet group, she volunteered for Nila, Chingay etc. But none of that made her a part of their inner circle.

Anyways, maybe this was in the best interest of everyone, no regrets, we enjoyed our time in Singapore, but it just felt like a very very long term holiday of 16 years. As if 16 years just disappeared and we are back to living our normal lives back in India again, as if the 16 years were just a dream.

It's interesting that ICA expect the applicant to do the integration but clearly in your case.... you did and it didn't work.

[smoulder]

I wonder if the main hurdle to integrating in Singapore is largely due to most expats not living in HDB. And not just living in the flat but hanging around the neighbourhood, going to the community centre, neighbourhood parks, local shops. I live near an active ageing centre and my goodness.. if the aunties and uncles catch you they will talk your ear off. The kids are about the same. Just the working adults are often too preoccupied so can seem distant.

We lived in HDB all throughout my 16 years tenure.
Reason for not integrating is simply because we are not encouraged to integrate.
By expats, I am assuming you mean EP holders. We have no chance of getting PR. We have no chance of getting our kids in local school. We have no chance of buying a house and settling down. So it is by design that the system wants us to come and work and leave once we are done.

We are kind of invisible and we are not part of the core society. The funny part is none of our neighbours would even talk or smile at us. There was no community spirit. I mean it is multicultural for name sake. We would bump into the same people but neither they nor us acknowledge each other's existence. The last house we stayed for 7 years! I mean nobody would even notice that we are gone. When we shifted to Jurong in 2018, there were lots of Indian families and all the Indian kids would play in the playground. But now the demographics has completely changed. No Indian kids at all.

My wife did participate in CC activities, she even participated in the NDP as part of the Indian dance contingent, crochet group, she volunteered for Nila, Chingay etc. But none of that made her a part of their inner circle.

Anyways, maybe this was in the best interest of everyone, no regrets, we enjoyed our time in Singapore, but it just felt like a very very long term holiday of 16 years. As if 16 years just disappeared and we are back to living our normal lives back in India again, as if the 16 years were just a dream.

My thoughts.

Trying to integrate in Singapore is on the foreigner and even then there is no guarantee that they will be integrated in as you pointed out.

My wife who is a Malaysian and therefore as close to a born and raised Singaporean as possible for a foreigner, still can't fit in completely. Yes, she does have friends who are Singaporean including those who are now quite close. But there are some major differences - the things that typical Singaporeans focus on vs what foreign raised people like us do. For instance, the mothers largely focus on enrichment for their kids like it is the only way to raise your children vs many foreigners who think it isn't necessary.

My wife and I do parent volunteering for the nearby primary school. (trying to get a better chance of admission there in the 2026 admission) Other parents typically just greet you but otherwise are not very social. Some parents are completely transactional and don't even look at you let alone acknowledge you because they probably think they are there for one reason and that isn't to be social. Now, they would probably behave the same way with fellow born and raised Singaporeans, but that's the whole point - imagine a foreigner is going to find it much harder to have a meaningful interaction in such an environment.

My wife also tried her hand at volunteer work the local grass roots committee. It turned out to be a mix of born and raised folks, a few from China (now Singapore citizens) and a handful of foreigners. Almost all probably had one thing in common - they are all there for some ulterior motive. Mostly to get ahead in primary school admission or to enhance their PR and citizenship chances. The result - similar to the experience of the parent volunteers I mentioned above. Or worse. People are completely unfriendly. It was such a turn off to see so many sour faces, that she stopped going there.

[Max Headroom]

I think it's the social competition. In a place as packed as Singapore, with so few resources, where you need to chope your seat and table, queue for everything and run for an MRT seat, subconsciously, we're beginning to regard everyone as a potential competitor first and a potential friend second, if at all.

I don't think it used to be as bad as it is now.

Lidat lor.