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PR chance 2024 for Vietnamese EP

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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sundaymorningstaple
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Re: PR chance 2024 for Vietnamese EP

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 14 May 2024 8:01 pm

seetha_1981 wrote:
Tue, 14 May 2024 11:18 am
Hi everyone, if you never try for PR, you will never know your chances. There are many in my expat circle who have applied 4 to 5 times, rejected. Applied and finally got it. ICA also sees your genuine interest in applying for PR and how well integrated you are in Singapore and your plans in SG for the next 5 year.s
Where, pray tell, did you get the 5 year figure from? Link please.

Or, are you related to hopeislife and it is only a pipedream opinion?

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Re: PR chance 2024 for Vietnamese EP

Post by singaporeflyer » Wed, 15 May 2024 10:33 am

hopeislife wrote:
Tue, 14 May 2024 12:14 pm
By the way, I hope you are not a pr application agency, because your statements very much looks like someone who is from an agency :-? . If you are not form agency, i seek your apologies.
Spot on. I confirm.

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Re: PR chance 2024 for Vietnamese EP

Post by aaron13579 » Fri, 24 May 2024 7:57 pm

Please keep up the hope! While it is more difficult for Viets to get PR in Singapore, it is certainly not impossible - I knew at least 5+ who managed to get it before 30 years old albeit they are very high-flying people.

My own observations + conclusion is that if the quota is aimed at maintaining racial ratio (which is 75% Chinese, 15% Malays, 8% Indians, 2% Others), then the actual approved PRs ratio would be very different. It's much more likely that the Others category is around 5-10%, Indian 10%, and Chinese 80%+, which explains my own anecdotal observation as well.

This is because you also need to take into account the existing foreigner nationality/ethnic composition, and the existing total fertility rate of the 4 race categories of Singapore.

Let's look at the argument from a macro-level perspective:

1. As of 2020-2021, there are more than 2 millions foreign nationals in Singapore, of which more than 1 millions are Malaysians. Around 500k are from China, 300k are from South Asia, the rest are from various different ASEAN countries and a minority (I would guess 50k?) are non-Asian.

Sources is quoted and estimated here: https://www.asianmigrantcentre.org/singapore

Of course, we should also think of the distribution by valid working passes for PR (EP, SPass...) - which still shows that at least 65% of these pass holders are Chinese (mostly Malaysians/PRC), and 25% are South Asians. An approximately 15% are Others, which I think can be subdivided by ASEAN, non-ASEAN Asians, and non-Asians.

This figure is approximated and supported by the following article, so take it with a grain of salt:
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/ ... favourable.

Note that based on observations, the population of foreign Malays from Malaysia/Indonesia is not substantial (a large majority are not either not holding strong enough working pass, or will not prefer Singapore at all due to their native countries' preferential treatments). I would take at most 1-2% of valid working passes statistics as Malay, and I believe almost all of them would get PRs/citizenships if they wish due to the quota.

2. The TFR of Chinese as of now is below 1, TFR of Indians is around 1-1.1 approximately, while the TFR for Malays is 1.8-1.9 approximately. All of these figures are below replacement rates of 2.1, and meaning that the SG government would prefer Chinese, then Indian, then Others, for PR applications.

Now, with these hypotheses in mind, let's revisit the existing quota for PRs + Citizenships which amount to 35000 and 20000 respectively every year.
This means that at least 28000-29000 PRs are granted each years to ethnic Chinese, 3000-4000 to Indians, and approximately 3000+ to non-Chinese and non-Indians. I have plotted graphs and visualize that by using this approximate figure, the CMIO quota would remain largely the same over the next 20-30 years.

There are 200k EPs in Singapore, 180k SPass in Singapore. The approximate annual PR applications is around 100k. If you take into account my figures, and assume normal distributions for PR applications, around 70k applications are Chinese, 20k are Indian, and 10k are Others.

Sources: https://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-workforce-numbers

So the competition for Chinese ethnic is 1 against 2, for Others is 1 against 3.5, for Indian is 1 against 5. I rounded up the number as a way to visualize the statistics.

It's also very likely that the competition ratio is 1:3 for non-Chinese Asians, and 1:4 for non-Asians. Within the figures for Chinese ethnics, there will be a slight preference for Malaysian/Indo Chinese as well.

Taking into account the ratio, this means that I don't think it is significantly easier for Malaysian Chinese to get PRs (although they are definitely preferred). With the current policies, non-Chinese Asians are still somewhat preferred over non-Asians.

And there are always options to marry a local Singaporean or invest 3 million dollars in a Singapore entity if you want quicker way to get PR.

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Re: PR chance 2024 for Vietnamese EP

Post by the observer » Sat, 25 May 2024 8:47 am

aaron13579 wrote:
Fri, 24 May 2024 7:57 pm
Please keep up the hope! While it is more difficult for Viets to get PR in Singapore, it is certainly not impossible - I knew at least 5+ who managed to get it before 30 years old albeit they are very high-flying people.

My own observations + conclusion is that if the quota is aimed at maintaining racial ratio (which is 75% Chinese, 15% Malays, 8% Indians, 2% Others), then the actual approved PRs ratio would be very different. It's much more likely that the Others category is around 5-10%, Indian 10%, and Chinese 80%+, which explains my own anecdotal observation as well.

This is because you also need to take into account the existing foreigner nationality/ethnic composition, and the existing total fertility rate of the 4 race categories of Singapore.

Let's look at the argument from a macro-level perspective:

1. As of 2020-2021, there are more than 2 millions foreign nationals in Singapore, of which more than 1 millions are Malaysians. Around 500k are from China, 300k are from South Asia, the rest are from various different ASEAN countries and a minority (I would guess 50k?) are non-Asian.

Sources is quoted and estimated here: https://www.asianmigrantcentre.org/singapore

Of course, we should also think of the distribution by valid working passes for PR (EP, SPass...) - which still shows that at least 65% of these pass holders are Chinese (mostly Malaysians/PRC), and 25% are South Asians. An approximately 15% are Others, which I think can be subdivided by ASEAN, non-ASEAN Asians, and non-Asians.

This figure is approximated and supported by the following article, so take it with a grain of salt:
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/ ... favourable.

Note that based on observations, the population of foreign Malays from Malaysia/Indonesia is not substantial (a large majority are not either not holding strong enough working pass, or will not prefer Singapore at all due to their native countries' preferential treatments). I would take at most 1-2% of valid working passes statistics as Malay, and I believe almost all of them would get PRs/citizenships if they wish due to the quota.

2. The TFR of Chinese as of now is below 1, TFR of Indians is around 1-1.1 approximately, while the TFR for Malays is 1.8-1.9 approximately. All of these figures are below replacement rates of 2.1, and meaning that the SG government would prefer Chinese, then Indian, then Others, for PR applications.

Now, with these hypotheses in mind, let's revisit the existing quota for PRs + Citizenships which amount to 35000 and 20000 respectively every year.
This means that at least 28000-29000 PRs are granted each years to ethnic Chinese, 3000-4000 to Indians, and approximately 3000+ to non-Chinese and non-Indians. I have plotted graphs and visualize that by using this approximate figure, the CMIO quota would remain largely the same over the next 20-30 years.

There are 200k EPs in Singapore, 180k SPass in Singapore. The approximate annual PR applications is around 100k. If you take into account my figures, and assume normal distributions for PR applications, around 70k applications are Chinese, 20k are Indian, and 10k are Others.

Sources: https://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-workforce-numbers

So the competition for Chinese ethnic is 1 against 2, for Others is 1 against 3.5, for Indian is 1 against 5. I rounded up the number as a way to visualize the statistics.

It's also very likely that the competition ratio is 1:3 for non-Chinese Asians, and 1:4 for non-Asians. Within the figures for Chinese ethnics, there will be a slight preference for Malaysian/Indo Chinese as well.

Taking into account the ratio, this means that I don't think it is significantly easier for Malaysian Chinese to get PRs (although they are definitely preferred). With the current policies, non-Chinese Asians are still somewhat preferred over non-Asians.

And there are always options to marry a local Singaporean or invest 3 million dollars in a Singapore entity if you want quicker way to get PR.
I must add that Malaysian Indians gets PRs quite easily as well. I suppose coming from a multicultural setting helps.

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Re: PR chance 2024 for Vietnamese EP

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 25 May 2024 1:08 pm

singaporeflyer wrote:
Wed, 15 May 2024 10:33 am
hopeislife wrote:
Tue, 14 May 2024 12:14 pm
By the way, I hope you are not a pr application agency, because your statements very much looks like someone who is from an agency :-? . If you are not form agency, i seek your apologies.
Spot on. I confirm.
@ aron13579
By the way, I hope you are not a former member of this board, because your statements very much looks like someone who was recently banned for outing another member. If you are not a former member, my apologies.
However, if you are.....

tic...toc...tic...
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: PR chance 2024 for Vietnamese EP

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 25 May 2024 1:20 pm

the observer wrote:
Sat, 25 May 2024 8:47 am
I must add that Malaysian Indians gets PRs quite easily as well. I suppose coming from a multicultural setting helps.
That is because the vast majority of those Malaysian Indians are at least 2nd generation Indians in Malaysia and also are adept at assimilation. This being said, I reckon, like the Malays and Chinese they also have relatives or strong connections with individuals in both countries.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: PR chance 2024 for Vietnamese EP

Post by malcontent » Sat, 25 May 2024 5:41 pm

hopeislife wrote:
Tue, 14 May 2024 12:14 pm
It is not always about genuine interest in applying PR (everyone is interested in applying)
Everyone has unique circumstances and motivations and should not just blindly follow the crowd applying for PR.

I have no interest in applying for PR despite living here 28 years on EP. Those who apply for PR should fully understand what they are signing up for.
It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows - Epictetus

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Re: PR chance 2024 for Vietnamese EP

Post by roslind.fong » Fri, 05 Jul 2024 2:32 am

Chances are slim. Salary low is less important, I have seen quite low salary but Chinese race with two boys got PR even citizenship though single parent. They finally all got Singpaore citizenship - two boys and a girl and mother.

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