Is Singapore Losing Its Appeal?

[raptor_from_vietnam]

Wd40, your life story gives me hopes. I have been working in Singapore for 5 years plus without being able to obtain a PR (applied twice but failed). My wife and I earn a decent paycheck here, not crazy high like those working in tech but we are still able to save up a significant chunk. However, I have always felt unease without the PR. My wife really wants to stay here so we are not planning for other countries, but I keep thinking what is the point staying here without a hope of a permanent future. It's like living the life of nomad. But I see that it worked out well for you. You have managed to save up a lot and can afford a comfortable retirement back home. That in itself is also a gain. So I'm telling myself if our subsequent PR applications keep failing, our stay here wont be in vain.

[Wd40]

Wd40, your life story gives me hopes. I have been working in Singapore for 5 years plus without being able to obtain a PR (applied twice but failed). My wife and I earn a decent paycheck here, not crazy high like those working in tech but we are still able to save up a significant chunk. However, I have always felt unease without the PR. My wife really wants to stay here so we are not planning for other countries, but I keep thinking what is the point staying here without a hope of a permanent future. It's like living the life of nomad. But I see that it worked out well for you. You have managed to save up a lot and can afford a comfortable retirement back home. That in itself is also a gain. So I'm telling myself if our subsequent PR applications keep failing, our stay here wont be in vain.

Thanks. As you both are working, you have that insurance against job loss. Also Vietnam is so closeby and you have Asean passport it is so easy for you to come and visit Singapore and look for jobs, even in case of a jobloss.

So, all you have to do is be good at your jobs and stay employable, you dont need a PR. You need to worry about your next generation, if you have kids. You could then try and enroll into the local schooling system, if you are really keen on living here and then eventually that will be a path for PR for your kid(s) and then you could continue living here on LTVP in your old age or go back to Vietnam.

For Indians, because there is a big Bay of Bengal seperating us, we dont feel the same closeness to Singapore also culturally our food and the way we look there is huge difference from mainstream Singapore. As Vietnamese you would probably assimilate a lot more easily.

So for us PR is not really something we have to have and lots of Indians, have given up their PR and gone back to India, which is probably one of the reasons why we dont get it so easily anymore.

My main concern is about my daughter, we are pretty happy to go back to India. In old age we want to be with our relatives and friends, during working life, Singapore is great.

[Wd40]

I realize this; in life any choice we make, we gain something and we lose something. When we make this choice of an expat posting, all we are thinking about is the financial arbitrage, to make tonnes of money and be able to have a comfortable life back home. This is what most Indians think, when we leave India.

But once we start living here and we have our kids here, we forget that our kids dont have any experience or attachment with India. For them Singapore is home. So after living here for 15-20 years, if you are taking your kids back to India, you are doing a big disservice to them. I think that is the cost of the an expat assignment, which I never considered, when I made the move to Singapore. Other than that I have no regrets, I have absolutely loved my stay in Singapore and it is has been extremely fruitful.

[malcontent]

Even many locals retire off island due to the high cost of living. Many prefer to “live large” in a neighboring country at a fraction of the cost. However, if you have family here and don’t mind living like a monk, you can live on island and partake of free activities… for example, spending time at the void deck and talking to the uncles.

[Wd40]

Even many locals retire off island due to the high cost of living. Many prefer to “live large” in a neighboring country at a fraction of the cost. However, if you have family here and don’t mind living like a monk, you can live on island and partake of free activities… for example, spending time at the void deck and talking to the uncles.

I read this brilliant tweet thread, I would recommend everyone to read:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1762 ... 44716.html

It is about the reason why when we are kids time seems to pass very slowly, every year feels like very long, but now when we are grown up and established in our careers, time just whizzes past.

The reasoning given is that when life is very predictable and no surprises, then our brain doesnt store those repititive events. Our brain is efficient form of storage, so if everyday is same, there is no need to store that information, so we dont make any memories out of the days, where there are no surprises.

There are ofcourse pros and cons, if you live a very predictable life like in Singapore, it is very comfortable, you have no problems. Life is easy. But then the question is life just goes away like this in a comfortable way, is this the kind of life you want or you want to live a life full of surprises and make a lot of memories. Surprises in evitably means moving out of comfort zone, exploring the unknown and that comes with risks. So what kind of life you want to lead?

[malcontent]

There are ofcourse pros and cons, if you live a very predictable life like in Singapore, it is very comfortable, you have no problems. Life is easy. But then the question is life just goes away like this in a comfortable way, is this the kind of life you want or you want to live a life full of surprises and make a lot of memories. Surprises in evitably means moving out of comfort zone, exploring the unknown and that comes with risks. So what kind of life you want to lead?

Variety is the spice of life, so it’s best to have a mix of both. Whenever I go to Chicago I now take the local train, everytime, even after midnight which can get a little dicey. When I was in Manila they said not to take the local train, but I did anyway and it was no problem. Just be prepared. Like in Chicago I carry an extra decoy wallet with a little cash, which I’m happy to give up. I have always relied on my humility to survive, which has never failed when confronted with the threat of violence. Of course no guarantees, bad stuff can always happen, but living in fear isn’t living.

[NYY1]

Wd40, your life story gives me hopes. I have been working in Singapore for 5 years plus without being able to obtain a PR (applied twice but failed). My wife and I earn a decent paycheck here, not crazy high like those working in tech but we are still able to save up a significant chunk. However, I have always felt unease without the PR. My wife really wants to stay here so we are not planning for other countries, but I keep thinking what is the point staying here without a hope of a permanent future. It's like living the life of nomad. But I see that it worked out well for you. You have managed to save up a lot and can afford a comfortable retirement back home. That in itself is also a gain. So I'm telling myself if our subsequent PR applications keep failing, our stay here wont be in vain.

Just keep giving it a try every so often. There's not much else to do at this point. You may strike gold and get through at some point. If not, at least your perspective will help the situation.

[NYY1]

I believe long-term immigration opportunities are a significant factor when deciding where to setup camp. Most kids will develop some sense of belonging or home wherever they grow up. At the same time, people aged 15 - 25 are pretty adaptable, as they are less likely to have some belief about what is best. Still, I get that being able to return (freely) is different from potentially not being able to do so.

Nevertheless, while we like to create opportunities for the kids, perhaps don't worry about it too much. In the end, they will have to find their own way. I know a lot of first gens (in many locations) that think the second gens have (or had) it too easy (in hindsight). The offspring are very smart and by no means lazy (often admitted to the most selective universities), but sometimes they lack the scrappiness of the prior generation. It takes a lot of effort to transmit the same characteristics, values, and drive to the next generation, especially if one thinks getting to X, Y, or Z has already "won."

[raptor_from_vietnam]

I realize this; in life any choice we make, we gain something and we lose something. When we make this choice of an expat posting, all we are thinking about is the financial arbitrage, to make tonnes of money and be able to have a comfortable life back home. This is what most Indians think, when we leave India.

But once we start living here and we have our kids here, we forget that our kids dont have any experience or attachment with India. For them Singapore is home. So after living here for 15-20 years, if you are taking your kids back to India, you are doing a big disservice to them. I think that is the cost of the an expat assignment, which I never considered, when I made the move to Singapore. Other than that I have no regrets, I have absolutely loved my stay in Singapore and it is has been extremely fruitful.

That is also the reason we would like to obtain PR and settle down here. To be honest, even at our current savings, we can already bought 2 decent houses in the city back home, so moving back isnt a problem for us. We don't have a kid yet, but we want to. I keep thinking if one day I have a kid and we have to suddenly pack up and go, that would be mentally devastating to the kid. That is indeed the hidden non-financial cost of being an expat.

I really hope you can secure your place here until your daughter is old enough. When she reaches a certain age, she can develop the mental fortitude to survive anywhere, including India. May she develop a curiosity to explore her home in India as well. I have been to India a couple of times on work assignments, it is totally the opposite of "boring".

[raptor_from_vietnam]

[/quote]
Just keep giving it a try every so often. There's not much else to do at this point. You may strike gold and get through at some point. If not, at least your perspective will help the situation.
[/quote]

Thank you for the advice. Yes, we will keep trying, and hope the best will somehow happen one day.

[malcontent]

I feel for those who can’t get PR after being here 5 or even 10 years, especially now because you have to tough it out financially during that time. Housing and schooling costs have gotten especially inhospitable in recent years with the 60% ABSD and MOE school fees (if you can secure a seat in local school). Primary school fees for non-ASEAN will exceed $1000 per month in 2026, and for secondary will surpass $2000 per month in 2025. The prospect of a foreigner coming to live in Singapore is now like a game of hot potato, you can’t hold on long before getting burned, especially if you have school aged kids.

[smoulder]

I realize this; in life any choice we make, we gain something and we lose something. When we make this choice of an expat posting, all we are thinking about is the financial arbitrage, to make tonnes of money and be able to have a comfortable life back home. This is what most Indians think, when we leave India.

But once we start living here and we have our kids here, we forget that our kids dont have any experience or attachment with India. For them Singapore is home. So after living here for 15-20 years, if you are taking your kids back to India, you are doing a big disservice to them. I think that is the cost of the an expat assignment, which I never considered, when I made the move to Singapore. Other than that I have no regrets, I have absolutely loved my stay in Singapore and it is has been extremely fruitful.

I recall we discussed this about a year or two ago. You mentioned that your daughter is living in an Indian bubble but in Singapore so she shouldn't have much trouble adjusting to life back home. Why do you think otherwise now?

[Wd40]

I realize this; in life any choice we make, we gain something and we lose something. When we make this choice of an expat posting, all we are thinking about is the financial arbitrage, to make tonnes of money and be able to have a comfortable life back home. This is what most Indians think, when we leave India.

But once we start living here and we have our kids here, we forget that our kids dont have any experience or attachment with India. For them Singapore is home. So after living here for 15-20 years, if you are taking your kids back to India, you are doing a big disservice to them. I think that is the cost of the an expat assignment, which I never considered, when I made the move to Singapore. Other than that I have no regrets, I have absolutely loved my stay in Singapore and it is has been extremely fruitful.

I recall we discussed this about a year or two ago. You mentioned that your daughter is living in an Indian bubble but in Singapore so she shouldn't have much trouble adjusting to life back home. Why do you think otherwise now?

Yes, it does help that my daughter lives in an Indian bubble. But some of the stark reality of India cannot be escaped, when my daughter has visited India during vacations and now she tells me, she doesn't like to go to India even for vacation.

Maybe she just likes to be with her laptop and WiFi

[malcontent]

Most of my Indian friends and their families tend to live in that bubble. It makes it hard to go on vacations with their family due to the food, even for non-vegetarians. Fortunately I love Indian food, I can eat it every day, so I’m always happy to join my Indian friends for lunch.

While this bubble thing is not unique to Indians, it is more prevalent. You can even see this in the US census data, where among Asians, Indians are the least likely to marry outside their race. Many people think Americans are very open minded, maybe in some ways, but not all. Just try invading someone’s personal space in the US and you will quickly find out how open minded they are.

[NYY1]

Take it for what it is worth (a Bloomberg article based on someone else's index/ranking)...

I tend to agree; the opportunity set here is now (at least) equal to that in many of the other popular immigration destinations (that are ranked slightly below Singapore), although long-term immigration will be easier in those other places for some.

I do think the gap between US (#2) and Singapore (#3) is understated, at least relative to #3 vs. #4-#6. So again, who knows what the index is made up of...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/compani ... 5207&ei=11