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Forum opinion article in Straits Times

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JWNYsg
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Forum opinion article in Straits Times

Post by JWNYsg » Sat, 13 Jan 2024 9:56 am

Not going to lie, this spoiled my morning coffee

https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/fo ... you-let-us

First, I mean no malice. I’m not sure if it’s ignorance

Bottom line is most people who can marry foreigner or live and get a second passport are from the privileg group. If we agree to her logic, Singapore will be left with people who cannot afford buy a life outside Singapore. Citizenship is a privilege which comes with obligations.

One of the reasons also easier to qualify to Singapore national team for thse sports because less competition than their home countries.

So many athletes in similar background or scenario fending themselves not ever asking for such requests because they understand how it works.

Sorry for my rant. I just couldn’t hold it in

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Re: Forum opinion article in Straits Times

Post by jalanjalan » Sat, 13 Jan 2024 1:24 pm

I laughed reading this. If she can write such a letter, she is really out of touch with average Singaporeans.

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Re: Forum opinion article in Straits Times

Post by malcontent » Sat, 13 Jan 2024 10:33 pm

JWNYsg wrote:
Sat, 13 Jan 2024 9:56 am
Not going to lie, this spoiled my morning coffee

https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/fo ... you-let-us

First, I mean no malice. I’m not sure if it’s ignorance

Bottom line is most people who can marry foreigner or live and get a second passport are from the privileg group. If we agree to her logic, Singapore will be left with people who cannot afford buy a life outside Singapore. Citizenship is a privilege which comes with obligations.

One of the reasons also easier to qualify to Singapore national team for thse sports because less competition than their home countries.

So many athletes in similar background or scenario fending themselves not ever asking for such requests because they understand how it works.

Sorry for my rant. I just couldn’t hold it in
To me the whole thing is pretty cut and dried; every country is different - you have to know the rules of engagement and plan accordingly. Being a citizen is not going to be everyone’s cup of tea. I know a female citizen who flew to the other side of the planet to give birth in her last trimester - - all that trouble just to avoid citizenship for her son. People might scoff, but it was a practical decision. At the time she knew she would be permanently migrating there. A few years after the birth, that is exactly what happened. It’s now been 10 years and she is still there. While this kind of thing might seem like an unattainable privilege to some, it’s actually getting more common. Today 3 out of 10 marriages here are mixed marriages, and this is only likely to grow. As it does, I think Singapore will need to consider tolerating dual citizenship in some shape or form. To be honest, the whole renouncing thing is a bit of a crock anyway, with countries like India, Indonesia and the Philippines allowing reinstatement after renouncing… plus other loopholes which we can’t discuss here.
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Re: Forum opinion article in Straits Times

Post by jalanjalan » Sun, 14 Jan 2024 10:18 am

As an individual, sure it's nice to have your cake and eat it too. But I don't see Singapore (or much of the world at this point) going more into global citizen territory. As JWNYsg says, it will create another rift between the haves and have-nots, which we can ill afford.

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Re: Forum opinion article in Straits Times

Post by malcontent » Sun, 14 Jan 2024 12:01 pm

jalanjalan wrote:
Sun, 14 Jan 2024 10:18 am
As an individual, sure it's nice to have your cake and eat it too. But I don't see Singapore (or much of the world at this point) going more into global citizen territory. As JWNYsg says, it will create another rift between the haves and have-nots, which we can ill afford.
I can’t help but wonder how much of that rift is being perpetuated by policies like sharper differentiation and the growing sense of entitlement that it seems to generate. And I totally agree, it’s not just here — populism is what caused Brexit and propelled Trump to the presidency. Someone here once famously said “just because it’s popular doesn’t mean it’s right” … I couldn’t agree more.
It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows - Epictetus

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Re: Forum opinion article in Straits Times

Post by malcontent » Sun, 14 Jan 2024 12:07 pm

jalanjalan wrote:
Sun, 14 Jan 2024 10:18 am
As an individual, sure it's nice to have your cake and eat it too. But I don't see Singapore (or much of the world at this point) going more into global citizen territory. As JWNYsg says, it will create another rift between the haves and have-nots, which we can ill afford.
What are your thoughts on a minimum wage?

In Australia, I believe it is $23.23/hour.
It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows - Epictetus

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Re: Forum opinion article in Straits Times

Post by jalanjalan » Sun, 14 Jan 2024 1:03 pm

malcontent wrote:
Sun, 14 Jan 2024 12:07 pm
What are your thoughts on a minimum wage?

In Australia, I believe it is $23.23/hour.
I honestly don't know. I can see the rationale for it in some scenarios but I can see why it's not an ideal solution too. I'd defer to the economists. As a layperson, I immediately think: cost of living will soar even higher.

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Re: Forum opinion article in Straits Times

Post by Wd40 » Sun, 14 Jan 2024 8:08 pm

India got this right. India freely allows people.to go and acquire foreign citizenship and then come and live in India on a lifelong citizenship like visa. Most Indians these days even those who give up their citizenship are very patriotic and contribute to the country and most look forward to come back to India for retirement.

Indians going abroad have brought very good name for India especially in the last 10 years.

I just have a feeling 10 years from now, there won't be a reason to leave India or give up Indian citizenship. India would have developed, so much, China is already behind now.

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Re: Forum opinion article in Straits Times

Post by Lisafuller » Tue, 16 Jan 2024 6:17 pm

jalanjalan wrote:
Sat, 13 Jan 2024 1:24 pm
I laughed reading this. If she can write such a letter, she is really out of touch with average Singaporeans.
I do believe ST lives for letters like this, plenty of potential to stir up conversations.

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Re: Forum opinion article in Straits Times

Post by Lisafuller » Tue, 16 Jan 2024 6:18 pm

malcontent wrote:
Sun, 14 Jan 2024 12:07 pm
jalanjalan wrote:
Sun, 14 Jan 2024 10:18 am
As an individual, sure it's nice to have your cake and eat it too. But I don't see Singapore (or much of the world at this point) going more into global citizen territory. As JWNYsg says, it will create another rift between the haves and have-nots, which we can ill afford.
What are your thoughts on a minimum wage?

In Australia, I believe it is $23.23/hour.
I support it, but am sure that'll raise prices which will upset everyone.

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Re: Forum opinion article in Straits Times

Post by Lisafuller » Tue, 16 Jan 2024 6:19 pm

jalanjalan wrote:
Sun, 14 Jan 2024 1:03 pm
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 14 Jan 2024 12:07 pm
What are your thoughts on a minimum wage?

In Australia, I believe it is $23.23/hour.
I honestly don't know. I can see the rationale for it in some scenarios but I can see why it's not an ideal solution too. I'd defer to the economists. As a layperson, I immediately think: cost of living will soar even higher.
Could definitely go both ways. From the perspective of minimum wage workers, they would surely welcome it. If I'm not mistaken, fast food chains like McDonald's pay something like seven dollars an hour here, which is pretty crazy and downright unlivable. On the other hand, instituting a minimum wage higher than what is current will certainly see a rise in costs.

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Re: Forum opinion article in Straits Times

Post by tiktok » Tue, 16 Jan 2024 10:26 pm

The reason there is no minimum wage is because the economy is addicted to low cost imported labour. This drives down salaries and keeps labour productivity low. However, it makes GDP looks good.

Here's what a insightful, caring government would do: stop undercutting it's citizens with cheap foreign workers and giving the best jobs to non-singaporeans. Create an entrepreneureal domestic workforce with western style liberal education and incentives for small businesses. Nurture and protect the local economy and stop the reliance on foreign capital and expertise.

The result will be higher wages, better living standards, more output per worker, and a self sustainaning local economy. Then a minimum wage can be set. Better lives for Singaporeans at the cost of not so stellar GDP figures.
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Re: Forum opinion article in Straits Times

Post by malcontent » Wed, 17 Jan 2024 9:58 am

Lisafuller wrote:
Tue, 16 Jan 2024 6:19 pm
jalanjalan wrote:
Sun, 14 Jan 2024 1:03 pm
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 14 Jan 2024 12:07 pm
What are your thoughts on a minimum wage?

In Australia, I believe it is $23.23/hour.
I honestly don't know. I can see the rationale for it in some scenarios but I can see why it's not an ideal solution too. I'd defer to the economists. As a layperson, I immediately think: cost of living will soar even higher.
Could definitely go both ways. From the perspective of minimum wage workers, they would surely welcome it. If I'm not mistaken, fast food chains like McDonald's pay something like seven dollars an hour here, which is pretty crazy and downright unlivable. On the other hand, instituting a minimum wage higher than what is current will certainly see a rise in costs.
It is true. My daughter has been pounding the pavement looking for work here before she starts university in Sep. She managed to land an $11/hr job at a department store, but she noticed Starbucks only pays $9/hr, and others are worse. Businesses like this seem to rely on young people who live with their parents… so in a way, their businesses are subsidized by people like me who provide kids free lodging — without that, it would seem impossible to live here.

I imagine the biggest cost for businesses here is the monthly lease they are paying, I imagine wages by comparison would be far less of a cost for them… but this is just my guess.

If she ends up going to California, working there for minimum wage will be double, around S$22/hr.
It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows - Epictetus

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Re: Forum opinion article in Straits Times

Post by jalanjalan » Wed, 17 Jan 2024 11:45 am

While people are young and economically active, setting a high minimum wage may look attractive even if cost of living rises, but what about the old people (we are legion) on fixed income or modest increase at most. Habis.

Also, lets not forget taxes. As wages get higher, you keep less of them.

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Re: Forum opinion article in Straits Times

Post by NYY1 » Wed, 17 Jan 2024 12:52 pm

Housing and wages here are connected. Not necessarily linked 1:1, but they are related. If there were no subsidies, wages would need to be higher. If the wage level magically doubled (for example) overnight, housing prices would also take off like a rocketship.

The above is part of the challenge with nominal GDP comparisons. A high figure is generally favoured for geopolitical power and gov't revenues. However, often the bulk of a population doesn't really care or benefit if their income is X or 2X assuming the corresponding costs are X or 2X as well. Of course, higher figures are often associated with other good things, but there are usually relative winners and losers as well (ideological preferences aside).

Generally speaking, if there is a large subsidy and you take it away, segments of the population will be impacted in different ways (and to varying degrees). Often, some part of the population will get blown-up (and need help), and all of the competing interests make change difficult (probably true of any gov't program anywhere).

There are plenty of academic answers to an economic question like a minimum wage. Some are probably 100% right, others 99% right, and many mostly right. What they don't always consider is the social or political implications of doing this or that. For example, maximizing aggregate utility sounds great until some people are starving or voting you out of office.

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