Hi. Some general comments / suggestions.iwobobul wrote: ↑Thu, 26 Oct 2023 4:27 pmHello, I am moving my family to Singapore, and was looking for expats to share their experience and help me budget my life.
We are in mid-30s, our kids are 3 year old twins. I have joined a startup, and my compensation is 14k + company equity. The equity part is a gamble roughly speaking, but I am not concerned about savings at this point, so my monthly budget is 14k (after taxes). I do have a diversified savings portfolio including immediately-available rainy day funds. Our insurances are covered by the company.
My wife has a DP, she might get her own EP eventually, but her current employer is reluctant to act on it and it seems we need to plan for worst case scenario and budget for 14k.
Our current lifestyle is very relaxed. I am making the 11K SGD right now, but we live in Prague, which is obviously much much cheaper. Rent is 3k SGD equivalent for a 140 sq.ft apartment downtown, preschool is 3k SGD for both kids. We only cook breakfasts and spend around 2300 SGD monthy for groceries (delivered) and food (delivered as well). We never go out, we do not have a helper. My wife is spending around 500 SGD/month on beauty products and services, I spend around the same on hobbies. Rest goes for gas (we own a car), toys, clothes, erc. and we essentially do not save anything from my salary at all.
I udnerstand very clearly that we would have to adjust our lifestyle, but I am not sure to what extent, and that is why I am asking for your advice here.
What I know for sure:
I want kids to go to school full day, it's great for their development. Would prefer school where there's a mix of expat kids and locals.
I will need to commute 2-3 days a week to office which is on Shenton way.
I would prefer a condo, as culturally I am used to small community living, but I sense I will only be able to afford an HDB.
I would prefer to stay somewhere lively with a mix of locals/expats, as long as we can afford it. When visiting I explored some less touristy areas, and I went to Punggol point, which I really did not like at all and felt overwhelmed there.
Won't be able to afford a car.
Would like to have a live-in help, but no idea if that would be even possible on this budget.
I would appreciate any suggestion on how to better spend 14k and maintain some quality of life.
I was thinking:
5500 rent including utilities (which is straight up excluding condos), I think we would need at least 1000 sq ft for 4 people.
3500 for school. I would appreciate suggestions here, as I saw a few schools, and really liked one, but it was in Hollang Village (4k for both kids full day). I saw a few chains like Maple Bear (in woodlands) and it's exclusively locals and no expats, and I want my kids to have an easier transition overall.
No idea on where to rent and go to school, I think home-school connection is much more important than home-work as bringing twins in every morning is a challenge even now, while we live 850m away from the school itself.
Food I was hoping to cap at 2500 and try to cooke more at home and do groceries in person instead of get them delivered to save a bit on that.
That's already 11500, and I am not sure if the rest would be enough for other expenses or if we should think about getting a helper, as I understand that is around 1000-1500/month total.
I was thinking that having a helper would be great from the cooking perspective at least, so we can just get the groceries and eat at home, but on the other hand it's another person to feed, and we would need additional space for one more adult which will probably drive the rent up, so I am not sure if there's anythign to be gained there.
Would appreciate any advice, thank you all!
You’ve got the right idea, you’ll need to make some substantial sacrifices in lifestyle just to keep a similar financial standing, even after spending the additional $3k in compensation. Hopefully you’ll be benefiting in other ways from this expat posting?iwobobul wrote: ↑Thu, 26 Oct 2023 4:27 pmHello, I am moving my family to Singapore, and was looking for expats to share their experience and help me budget my life.
We are in mid-30s, our kids are 3 year old twins. I have joined a startup, and my compensation is 14k + company equity. The equity part is a gamble roughly speaking, but I am not concerned about savings at this point, so my monthly budget is 14k (after taxes). I do have a diversified savings portfolio including immediately-available rainy day funds. Our insurances are covered by the company.
My wife has a DP, she might get her own EP eventually, but her current employer is reluctant to act on it and it seems we need to plan for worst case scenario and budget for 14k.
Our current lifestyle is very relaxed. I am making the 11K SGD right now, but we live in Prague, which is obviously much much cheaper. Rent is 3k SGD equivalent for a 140 sq.ft apartment downtown, preschool is 3k SGD for both kids. We only cook breakfasts and spend around 2300 SGD monthy for groceries (delivered) and food (delivered as well). We never go out, we do not have a helper. My wife is spending around 500 SGD/month on beauty products and services, I spend around the same on hobbies. Rest goes for gas (we own a car), toys, clothes, erc. and we essentially do not save anything from my salary at all.
I udnerstand very clearly that we would have to adjust our lifestyle, but I am not sure to what extent, and that is why I am asking for your advice here.
What I know for sure:
I want kids to go to school full day, it's great for their development. Would prefer school where there's a mix of expat kids and locals.
I will need to commute 2-3 days a week to office which is on Shenton way.
I would prefer a condo, as culturally I am used to small community living, but I sense I will only be able to afford an HDB.
I would prefer to stay somewhere lively with a mix of locals/expats, as long as we can afford it. When visiting I explored some less touristy areas, and I went to Punggol point, which I really did not like at all and felt overwhelmed there.
Won't be able to afford a car.
Would like to have a live-in help, but no idea if that would be even possible on this budget.
I would appreciate any suggestion on how to better spend 14k and maintain some quality of life.
I was thinking:
5500 rent including utilities (which is straight up excluding condos), I think we would need at least 1000 sq ft for 4 people.
3500 for school. I would appreciate suggestions here, as I saw a few schools, and really liked one, but it was in Hollang Village (4k for both kids full day). I saw a few chains like Maple Bear (in woodlands) and it's exclusively locals and no expats, and I want my kids to have an easier transition overall.
No idea on where to rent and go to school, I think home-school connection is much more important than home-work as bringing twins in every morning is a challenge even now, while we live 850m away from the school itself.
Food I was hoping to cap at 2500 and try to cooke more at home and do groceries in person instead of get them delivered to save a bit on that.
That's already 11500, and I am not sure if the rest would be enough for other expenses or if we should think about getting a helper, as I understand that is around 1000-1500/month total.
I was thinking that having a helper would be great from the cooking perspective at least, so we can just get the groceries and eat at home, but on the other hand it's another person to feed, and we would need additional space for one more adult which will probably drive the rent up, so I am not sure if there's anythign to be gained there.
Would appreciate any advice, thank you all!
I do think you may have overestimated housing costs. You will probably be able to find a condo for less that 5k, assuming you're not picky and are open to commuting.iwobobul wrote: ↑Thu, 26 Oct 2023 4:27 pmHello, I am moving my family to Singapore, and was looking for expats to share their experience and help me budget my life.
We are in mid-30s, our kids are 3 year old twins. I have joined a startup, and my compensation is 14k + company equity. The equity part is a gamble roughly speaking, but I am not concerned about savings at this point, so my monthly budget is 14k (after taxes). I do have a diversified savings portfolio including immediately-available rainy day funds. Our insurances are covered by the company.
My wife has a DP, she might get her own EP eventually, but her current employer is reluctant to act on it and it seems we need to plan for worst case scenario and budget for 14k.
Our current lifestyle is very relaxed. I am making the 11K SGD right now, but we live in Prague, which is obviously much much cheaper. Rent is 3k SGD equivalent for a 140 sq.ft apartment downtown, preschool is 3k SGD for both kids. We only cook breakfasts and spend around 2300 SGD monthy for groceries (delivered) and food (delivered as well). We never go out, we do not have a helper. My wife is spending around 500 SGD/month on beauty products and services, I spend around the same on hobbies. Rest goes for gas (we own a car), toys, clothes, erc. and we essentially do not save anything from my salary at all.
I udnerstand very clearly that we would have to adjust our lifestyle, but I am not sure to what extent, and that is why I am asking for your advice here.
What I know for sure:
I want kids to go to school full day, it's great for their development. Would prefer school where there's a mix of expat kids and locals.
I will need to commute 2-3 days a week to office which is on Shenton way.
I would prefer a condo, as culturally I am used to small community living, but I sense I will only be able to afford an HDB.
I would prefer to stay somewhere lively with a mix of locals/expats, as long as we can afford it. When visiting I explored some less touristy areas, and I went to Punggol point, which I really did not like at all and felt overwhelmed there.
Won't be able to afford a car.
Would like to have a live-in help, but no idea if that would be even possible on this budget.
I would appreciate any suggestion on how to better spend 14k and maintain some quality of life.
I was thinking:
5500 rent including utilities (which is straight up excluding condos), I think we would need at least 1000 sq ft for 4 people.
3500 for school. I would appreciate suggestions here, as I saw a few schools, and really liked one, but it was in Hollang Village (4k for both kids full day). I saw a few chains like Maple Bear (in woodlands) and it's exclusively locals and no expats, and I want my kids to have an easier transition overall.
No idea on where to rent and go to school, I think home-school connection is much more important than home-work as bringing twins in every morning is a challenge even now, while we live 850m away from the school itself.
Food I was hoping to cap at 2500 and try to cooke more at home and do groceries in person instead of get them delivered to save a bit on that.
That's already 11500, and I am not sure if the rest would be enough for other expenses or if we should think about getting a helper, as I understand that is around 1000-1500/month total.
I was thinking that having a helper would be great from the cooking perspective at least, so we can just get the groceries and eat at home, but on the other hand it's another person to feed, and we would need additional space for one more adult which will probably drive the rent up, so I am not sure if there's anythign to be gained there.
Would appreciate any advice, thank you all!
Holland Village is an excellent recommendation. Many expats, very kid friendly and extremely accessible.NYY1 wrote: ↑Thu, 26 Oct 2023 6:34 pmHi. Some general comments / suggestions.iwobobul wrote: ↑Thu, 26 Oct 2023 4:27 pmHello, I am moving my family to Singapore, and was looking for expats to share their experience and help me budget my life.
We are in mid-30s, our kids are 3 year old twins. I have joined a startup, and my compensation is 14k + company equity. The equity part is a gamble roughly speaking, but I am not concerned about savings at this point, so my monthly budget is 14k (after taxes). I do have a diversified savings portfolio including immediately-available rainy day funds. Our insurances are covered by the company.
My wife has a DP, she might get her own EP eventually, but her current employer is reluctant to act on it and it seems we need to plan for worst case scenario and budget for 14k.
Our current lifestyle is very relaxed. I am making the 11K SGD right now, but we live in Prague, which is obviously much much cheaper. Rent is 3k SGD equivalent for a 140 sq.ft apartment downtown, preschool is 3k SGD for both kids. We only cook breakfasts and spend around 2300 SGD monthy for groceries (delivered) and food (delivered as well). We never go out, we do not have a helper. My wife is spending around 500 SGD/month on beauty products and services, I spend around the same on hobbies. Rest goes for gas (we own a car), toys, clothes, erc. and we essentially do not save anything from my salary at all.
I udnerstand very clearly that we would have to adjust our lifestyle, but I am not sure to what extent, and that is why I am asking for your advice here.
What I know for sure:
I want kids to go to school full day, it's great for their development. Would prefer school where there's a mix of expat kids and locals.
I will need to commute 2-3 days a week to office which is on Shenton way.
I would prefer a condo, as culturally I am used to small community living, but I sense I will only be able to afford an HDB.
I would prefer to stay somewhere lively with a mix of locals/expats, as long as we can afford it. When visiting I explored some less touristy areas, and I went to Punggol point, which I really did not like at all and felt overwhelmed there.
Won't be able to afford a car.
Would like to have a live-in help, but no idea if that would be even possible on this budget.
I would appreciate any suggestion on how to better spend 14k and maintain some quality of life.
I was thinking:
5500 rent including utilities (which is straight up excluding condos), I think we would need at least 1000 sq ft for 4 people.
3500 for school. I would appreciate suggestions here, as I saw a few schools, and really liked one, but it was in Hollang Village (4k for both kids full day). I saw a few chains like Maple Bear (in woodlands) and it's exclusively locals and no expats, and I want my kids to have an easier transition overall.
No idea on where to rent and go to school, I think home-school connection is much more important than home-work as bringing twins in every morning is a challenge even now, while we live 850m away from the school itself.
Food I was hoping to cap at 2500 and try to cooke more at home and do groceries in person instead of get them delivered to save a bit on that.
That's already 11500, and I am not sure if the rest would be enough for other expenses or if we should think about getting a helper, as I understand that is around 1000-1500/month total.
I was thinking that having a helper would be great from the cooking perspective at least, so we can just get the groceries and eat at home, but on the other hand it's another person to feed, and we would need additional space for one more adult which will probably drive the rent up, so I am not sure if there's anythign to be gained there.
Would appreciate any advice, thank you all!
-I would also suggest find a school you are comfortable with (environment and cost), and then try to get housing as close to and convenient as possible. Best is a short walk or direct bus/MRT to and from (and ideally a direct link back to an MRT station if you need to go elsewhere). As you say, the distance is not far for an adult but just try to make things as easy as possible with little kids (also, the distance gets longer under the heat of the sun or in a downpour).
-Perhaps look around the Holland Village area a bit closer; I think you may be able to get an HDB in the 4k (possibly in the mid 3k range) and you may be able to get a condo for 5k-6k (utilities probably add a few hundred). This area will probably fit your demographic preferences.
-Grocery delivery is pretty cheap here so don't worry about that. You can always walk nearby to pickup perishables like fruit and veggies. I think your grocery budget should be more than adequate, although a lot depends on meat consumption (and type). Depending on where you live, you can also get cheap prepared local food at a hawker centre (you may or may not like it), should have a lot of choices for $5 - $10 per person.
If you go for the cheaper housing, you'll have more for entertainment, personal items, and misc. If not, maybe cover these from your other savings; not ideal and perhaps not the best practice for an extended period of time. Still, give it a try and see what happens (wife gets a job, salary goes up, equity is worth a lot, like it here, hate it here, etc). If your wife is not working, maybe pass on the helper; kids are only young once so enjoy this time. As you note, also one less mouth to feed and more space for the four of you.
Perhaps some other people can give you other recommendations for areas (similar cost or cheaper that still have a mix of residents).
Good luck and regards.
Even eating at hawker centers daily would not cost that much, though whether or not it's healthy is a different question altogether.jalanjalan wrote: ↑Thu, 26 Oct 2023 6:55 pmFood cost seems a bit high to me. Unless you have special dietary requirements you can cut that way back, if you cook at home. I cook 90% of the time and spend no more than 500$/mo for 2 people. I stay in HDB and have 5 grocery stores in walking distance. I still order some stuff online though as it's even cheaper in bulk.
Some of the older HDB estates (like Holland V) may feel less overwhelming to you than the new estates. I used to live in Commonwealth, next door to Holland V, and it was pretty peaceful.
$14 for delivery is conservative. Considering delivery fees, minimum orders, and the fact that meals are up charged on apps, I'd say $20 per person is more realistic.nelyanne wrote: ↑Thu, 26 Oct 2023 7:43 pm14k for a family of 4 can be a bit tight. For sure less comfortable than your current life in the wonderful Prague.
HDBs have so called Non-Citizen (NC) Rent Out Quota, limiting how many flats in a block can be rented out to foreigners. So there is a high risk that you will NOT be allowed to rent an HDB. HDBs are dominated by Singaporeans, don't expect easy mixing with the locals, it rarely happens.
Getting a helper just to cook for you doesn't make financial sense. (And don't expect them to be great cooks. They might have no idea about cooking the food you would enjoy.) For the delivered meals, there are some options, but it's not as popular as in Europe. Expect to pay minimum 14 SGD/meal. For groceries, I agree with jalanjalan, 250 SGD/adult can be enough if you cook at home. 400 SGD/pax if you alternate between cooking and eating out. (Of course, it's just an estimation, because sky is the limit.)
Sounds awful, how did you discover issues with the schools?malcontent wrote: ↑Fri, 27 Oct 2023 12:15 amYou’ve got the right idea, you’ll need to make some substantial sacrifices in lifestyle just to keep a similar financial standing, even after spending the additional $3k in compensation. Hopefully you’ll be benefiting in other ways from this expat posting?iwobobul wrote: ↑Thu, 26 Oct 2023 4:27 pmHello, I am moving my family to Singapore, and was looking for expats to share their experience and help me budget my life.
We are in mid-30s, our kids are 3 year old twins. I have joined a startup, and my compensation is 14k + company equity. The equity part is a gamble roughly speaking, but I am not concerned about savings at this point, so my monthly budget is 14k (after taxes). I do have a diversified savings portfolio including immediately-available rainy day funds. Our insurances are covered by the company.
My wife has a DP, she might get her own EP eventually, but her current employer is reluctant to act on it and it seems we need to plan for worst case scenario and budget for 14k.
Our current lifestyle is very relaxed. I am making the 11K SGD right now, but we live in Prague, which is obviously much much cheaper. Rent is 3k SGD equivalent for a 140 sq.ft apartment downtown, preschool is 3k SGD for both kids. We only cook breakfasts and spend around 2300 SGD monthy for groceries (delivered) and food (delivered as well). We never go out, we do not have a helper. My wife is spending around 500 SGD/month on beauty products and services, I spend around the same on hobbies. Rest goes for gas (we own a car), toys, clothes, erc. and we essentially do not save anything from my salary at all.
I udnerstand very clearly that we would have to adjust our lifestyle, but I am not sure to what extent, and that is why I am asking for your advice here.
What I know for sure:
I want kids to go to school full day, it's great for their development. Would prefer school where there's a mix of expat kids and locals.
I will need to commute 2-3 days a week to office which is on Shenton way.
I would prefer a condo, as culturally I am used to small community living, but I sense I will only be able to afford an HDB.
I would prefer to stay somewhere lively with a mix of locals/expats, as long as we can afford it. When visiting I explored some less touristy areas, and I went to Punggol point, which I really did not like at all and felt overwhelmed there.
Won't be able to afford a car.
Would like to have a live-in help, but no idea if that would be even possible on this budget.
I would appreciate any suggestion on how to better spend 14k and maintain some quality of life.
I was thinking:
5500 rent including utilities (which is straight up excluding condos), I think we would need at least 1000 sq ft for 4 people.
3500 for school. I would appreciate suggestions here, as I saw a few schools, and really liked one, but it was in Hollang Village (4k for both kids full day). I saw a few chains like Maple Bear (in woodlands) and it's exclusively locals and no expats, and I want my kids to have an easier transition overall.
No idea on where to rent and go to school, I think home-school connection is much more important than home-work as bringing twins in every morning is a challenge even now, while we live 850m away from the school itself.
Food I was hoping to cap at 2500 and try to cooke more at home and do groceries in person instead of get them delivered to save a bit on that.
That's already 11500, and I am not sure if the rest would be enough for other expenses or if we should think about getting a helper, as I understand that is around 1000-1500/month total.
I was thinking that having a helper would be great from the cooking perspective at least, so we can just get the groceries and eat at home, but on the other hand it's another person to feed, and we would need additional space for one more adult which will probably drive the rent up, so I am not sure if there's anythign to be gained there.
Would appreciate any advice, thank you all!
The thing that would worry me the most in your situation is where you’ll be when your kids are ready for primary school, that is when the fees here really start ratcheting up.
I would consider condos that are farther from town. I’d rather commute than slum it, but that’s me.
I wouldn’t worry too much about the local vs expat mix in schools for your kids, they shouldn’t have any adjustment issues at their age, nor will they have any meaningful cognitive benefit or detriment. Main thing is that the teachers aren’t mean and making kids cry. We had to pull our kids out of a few places we tried, run like military camps.
The first clue was our kids were in tears a few times when we picked them up after school — and we know our kids, they aren’t trouble makers or prone to crying. Beyond what our kids said and what the teachers said, we also checked with other parents and were able to conclude that the way discipline was meted out wasn’t the environment we wanted for our kids at that age. One of the schools is a very famous and sought after Chinese focused school (shares the name with a famous Primary school) and took over a year on a waiting list.Lisafuller wrote: ↑Fri, 27 Oct 2023 3:04 amSounds awful, how did you discover issues with the schools?
I have my guesses about which school you're referring to, but I'll reserve these thoughts to myself since it seems you're trying to keep it private.malcontent wrote: ↑Fri, 27 Oct 2023 9:10 amThe first clue was our kids were in tears a few times when we picked them up after school — and we know our kids, they aren’t trouble makers or prone to crying. Beyond what our kids said and what the teachers said, we also checked with other parents and were able to conclude that the way discipline was meted out wasn’t the environment we wanted for our kids at that age. One of the schools is a very famous and sought after Chinese focused school (shares the name with a famous Primary school) and took over a year on a waiting list.Lisafuller wrote: ↑Fri, 27 Oct 2023 3:04 amSounds awful, how did you discover issues with the schools?
Fortunately when we got them in there, we didn’t drop their enrollment at the other school they had been attending (Barker Road), where they were at least somewhat happy; despite almost zero recess time. Kind of crazy to be enrolled at two schools at once for a few weeks there, but it was definitely the right move (Barker also has a long wait list).
My youngest ended up spending a full 4 years from N1 to K2 at Barker. After we’d been through all the trial and error with my eldest, we decided it was the best school for the money in our area. If my memory is correct, it was just under $4k per year back then.
My thoughts exactly. Will be a huge strain long term. Honestly it's pretty crazy that the Singapore of today is unlivable even for those making 5 figures.malcontent wrote: ↑Sat, 28 Oct 2023 12:19 pmSounds about right. Definitely public transport is the biggest opportunity to cut costs. You could also squeeze a little more savings out of your internet and mobile service, but it’s not going to move the needle.
Looks like you are just under $13k without a car or helper, and you are looking at school fees that will at least triple if not quadruple as your kids move to a real school. So, you might be fine for the short-term; longer term, you’ll probably need some changes in your situation or an exit plan.
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