Any Foreign kid got to Local School (2022)

[BeeKayEss]

Just curious to know if any expat kid got into local school, closer to their home ? Is there any stats or any details on what you think are the chances to get into local school?

Thanks!

[malcontent]

Just curious to know if any expat kid got into local school, closer to their home ? Is there any stats or any details on what you think are the chances to get into local school?

Thanks!

Even back 8 years ago, we couldn’t get my son into local school near our home… and that was during P1 registration (allegedly the easiest time). It was around that time that they could only guarantee spaces for SC/PR students (but not necessarily near your home), leaving many tax-paying residents here without a local school option.

At that time I remember anecdotal evidence that around 1,000 non-SC/PR students had been applying each year during P1 registration and large numbers (at least hundreds) were turned away — this was around the same time they started meaningfully ratcheting up the school fees for non-locals.

Clearly, there is no interest in providing local education for non-locals (with few exceptions, like scholars). This seemed to be partly to ease concerns with locals about foreign competition in local schools, and also the potential contamination of the local culture (although some locals seemed to prefer schools with a mix of international students… but it’s probably not something the authorities would desire). Since then, they have continued to merge schools and I believe the supply of seats has only gotten smaller.

My two cents — as a foreigner, you cannot count on getting a seat in a local school. Even if you are lucky and do, expect school fees to keep going up… last I checked they were about half of the typical International School, and climbing. If your employer can’t pay for international school, you probably want to rethink moving here.

[NYY1]

Just curious to know if any expat kid got into local school, closer to their home ? Is there any stats or any details on what you think are the chances to get into local school?

Thanks!

I don't think there are any official stats on what the chances are. However, every year some kids do get in via Phase 3 (I think there was one parent here whose kid got in last year and they were subsequently trying to apply for PR).

As for close to home, that largely depends on where you live. In some areas, the surrounding schools will not have any space available.

If you've already applied Phase 3, just wait until the results are out. It's basically a take it or leave it offer, irrespective of how close/far the school is from your home. If unsuccessful, you can try AEIS next year for P2 in 2025.

[NYY1]

Even back 8 years ago, we couldn’t get my son into local school near our home… and that was during P1 registration (allegedly the easiest time). It was around that time that they could only guarantee spaces for SC/PR students (but not necessarily near your home), leaving many tax-paying residents here without a local school option.

At that time I remember anecdotal evidence that around 1,000 non-SC/PR students had been applying each year during P1 registration and large numbers (at least hundreds) were turned away — this was around the same time they started meaningfully ratcheting up the school fees for non-locals.

Clearly, there is no interest in providing local education for non-locals (with few exceptions, like scholars). This seemed to be partly to ease concerns with locals about foreign competition in local schools, and also the potential contamination of the local culture (although some locals seemed to prefer schools with a mix of international students… but it’s probably not something the authorities would desire). Since then, they have continued to merge schools and I believe the supply of seats has only gotten smaller.

My two cents — as a foreigner, you cannot count on getting a seat in a local school. Even if you are lucky and do, expect school fees to keep going up… last I checked they were about half of the typical International School, and climbing. If your employer can’t pay for international school, you probably want to rethink moving here.

Most likely, the mix (and number +/-) of international students has not changed over the years (~5%). Every year you can get the cohort size for each primary level and compare it to the number of citizen births X years ago. One cannot control for IS to PR and PR to SC conversions, but you can see that the proportions are likely being managed very carefully (for example, even when citizen births go up or down, this does not mean there is a smaller or larger balance of non-SCs).

Whether the seats made available to kids on DP have decreased, that may be true. AEIS is another filter to select who to admit. However, without a doubt there is no shortage of international students in some circles.

As for closing of schools, I think this is largely done on an estate basis. New HDBs tend to mean lots of young kids. 20 years later the situation is different (with the exception of some areas that always attract families to them). You can close some schools and open new schools elsewhere.

[Lisafuller]

Just curious to know if any expat kid got into local school, closer to their home ? Is there any stats or any details on what you think are the chances to get into local school?

Thanks!

Even back 8 years ago, we couldn’t get my son into local school near our home… and that was during P1 registration (allegedly the easiest time). It was around that time that they could only guarantee spaces for SC/PR students (but not necessarily near your home), leaving many tax-paying residents here without a local school option.

At that time I remember anecdotal evidence that around 1,000 non-SC/PR students had been applying each year during P1 registration and large numbers (at least hundreds) were turned away — this was around the same time they started meaningfully ratcheting up the school fees for non-locals.

Clearly, there is no interest in providing local education for non-locals (with few exceptions, like scholars). This seemed to be partly to ease concerns with locals about foreign competition in local schools, and also the potential contamination of the local culture (although some locals seemed to prefer schools with a mix of international students… but it’s probably not something the authorities would desire). Since then, they have continued to merge schools and I believe the supply of seats has only gotten smaller.

My two cents — as a foreigner, you cannot count on getting a seat in a local school. Even if you are lucky and do, expect school fees to keep going up… last I checked they were about half of the typical International School, and climbing. If your employer can’t pay for international school, you probably want to rethink moving here.

From the governments perspective, you can see why they are in no hurry to welcome foreigners into the schools as they seek to conserve resources and spend them only on citizens/PRs.

From a parents perspective, there are far more parents who want their children enrolled in International Schools than those who want to pursue the local school route. One might argue that this is because getting into a local school is so hard for foreigners anyway, but beyond this, I believe that most don't in order to keep their options open for when they eventually move out of SG.

[Lisafuller]

Just curious to know if any expat kid got into local school, closer to their home ? Is there any stats or any details on what you think are the chances to get into local school?

Thanks!

I don't think there are any official stats on what the chances are. However, every year some kids do get in via Phase 3 (I think there was one parent here whose kid got in last year and they were subsequently trying to apply for PR).

As for close to home, that largely depends on where you live. In some areas, the surrounding schools will not have any space available.

If you've already applied Phase 3, just wait until the results are out. It's basically a take it or leave it offer, irrespective of how close/far the school is from your home. If unsuccessful, you can try AEIS next year for P2 in 2025.

Don't think there any official stats either, but what I do know is that there are certain schools with significantly larger foreign populations than others. Bukit Timah primary school is a notable one.

[NYY1]

Don't think there any official stats either, but what I do know is that there are certain schools with significantly larger foreign populations than others. Bukit Timah primary school is a notable one.

Yes, I don't think any foreign kids but many PRs. Basically, the PRs have no shot at the popular schools in that area so they can only try the one you mentioned (nothing wrong with that). One of the challenges of balloting for places along that stretch of road is if you don't get it, the next options may not be very convenient. Not an issue if one parent can shuttle the kid to/from for six years. But if not, it's a logistical headache. Still, some people go for it.

[BeeKayEss]

Thanks for the insight. Will wait for the phase 3 result.

[malcontent]

Just curious to know if any expat kid got into local school, closer to their home ? Is there any stats or any details on what you think are the chances to get into local school?

Thanks!

I don't think there are any official stats on what the chances are. However, every year some kids do get in via Phase 3 (I think there was one parent here whose kid got in last year and they were subsequently trying to apply for PR).

As for close to home, that largely depends on where you live. In some areas, the surrounding schools will not have any space available.

If you've already applied Phase 3, just wait until the results are out. It's basically a take it or leave it offer, irrespective of how close/far the school is from your home. If unsuccessful, you can try AEIS next year for P2 in 2025.

Don't think there any official stats either, but what I do know is that there are certain schools with significantly larger foreign populations than others. Bukit Timah primary school is a notable one.

There are stats, but we are not privy to them.

The schools that used to be popular with non-locals have, in most cases, become locals only.

My daughter was one of the last PR students to gain entry at her primary school at phase 2C before they changed the rules. Giving SC students ultimate priority meant that any remaining seats at the school were up for grabs by any SC student on the entire island… then if anything was left, a PR student could fight/ballot for. So, when I checked the following year, sure enough - not one single PR student, and I’m sure none since. Given the dramatic changes, I’m not sure if there is any school left that has many non-locals, maybe the bottom of the barrel - which is where you’ll end up in phase 3 anyway, if you even get in.

[NYY1]

There are stats, but we are not privy to them.

The schools that used to be popular with non-locals have, in most cases, become locals only.

My daughter was one of the last PR students to gain entry at her primary school at phase 2C before they changed the rules. Giving SC students ultimate priority meant that any remaining seats at the school were up for grabs by any SC student on the entire island… then if anything was left, a PR student could fight/ballot for. So, when I checked the following year, sure enough - not one single PR student, and I’m sure none since. Given the dramatic changes, I’m not sure if there is any school left that has many non-locals, maybe the bottom of the barrel - which is where you’ll end up in phase 3 anyway, if you even get in.

Actually, if you go look at the vacancies available after SC/PR have registered this year, there are spaces for foreign kids to make up about 9.4% of a typical cohort size (2017 is an average births year). Of course, not all these spaces will be utilized due to concentrations, etc. But the fact is there are spaces available and foreign students are admitted. They just aren't the schools that are acceptable to everyone.

The funny thing is, if one tracks some of these foreign students from start to finish, he/she would know many of them qualify for any secondary school they want (and in certain secondary schools they are definitely there). Often times, these students had no tuition in primary school, and they definitely don't have tuition in secondary school/JC. I guess these are the kids that have time to pursue their other non-academic interests (there are certainly other local kids like this too).

Anyways, it's just like the brightest foreign students that go to the US for uni. Some are lucky and get to start at blah blah blah. Undoubtedly, they have a nicer experience and a better initial opportunity set. Others, say "just give me a chance." They are happy to take whatever they can get and they do extremely well from there, often surpassing the ones that thought a school was everything. At a minimum, they know what salaries and housing costs are in the talent centres on the coasts.

[Lisafuller]

Don't think there any official stats either, but what I do know is that there are certain schools with significantly larger foreign populations than others. Bukit Timah primary school is a notable one.

Yes, I don't think any foreign kids but many PRs. Basically, the PRs have no shot at the popular schools in that area so they can only try the one you mentioned (nothing wrong with that). One of the challenges of balloting for places along that stretch of road is if you don't get it, the next options may not be very convenient. Not an issue if one parent can shuttle the kid to/from for six years. But if not, it's a logistical headache. Still, some people go for it.

From what I've heard, BTPS is pretty popular. It's in a nicer area, and we all know the correlation between wealth and education...

[Lisafuller]

Thanks for the insight. Will wait for the phase 3 result.

Do update us, best of luck!

[Lisafuller]

I don't think there are any official stats on what the chances are. However, every year some kids do get in via Phase 3 (I think there was one parent here whose kid got in last year and they were subsequently trying to apply for PR).

As for close to home, that largely depends on where you live. In some areas, the surrounding schools will not have any space available.

If you've already applied Phase 3, just wait until the results are out. It's basically a take it or leave it offer, irrespective of how close/far the school is from your home. If unsuccessful, you can try AEIS next year for P2 in 2025.

Don't think there any official stats either, but what I do know is that there are certain schools with significantly larger foreign populations than others. Bukit Timah primary school is a notable one.

There are stats, but we are not privy to them.

The schools that used to be popular with non-locals have, in most cases, become locals only.

My daughter was one of the last PR students to gain entry at her primary school at phase 2C before they changed the rules. Giving SC students ultimate priority meant that any remaining seats at the school were up for grabs by any SC student on the entire island… then if anything was left, a PR student could fight/ballot for. So, when I checked the following year, sure enough - not one single PR student, and I’m sure none since. Given the dramatic changes, I’m not sure if there is any school left that has many non-locals, maybe the bottom of the barrel - which is where you’ll end up in phase 3 anyway, if you even get in.

I am pretty sure schools were almost entirely local before anyway. When my daughter entered P1 in 2010, she was the only white kid in the whole school.

[Lisafuller]

There are stats, but we are not privy to them.

The schools that used to be popular with non-locals have, in most cases, become locals only.

My daughter was one of the last PR students to gain entry at her primary school at phase 2C before they changed the rules. Giving SC students ultimate priority meant that any remaining seats at the school were up for grabs by any SC student on the entire island… then if anything was left, a PR student could fight/ballot for. So, when I checked the following year, sure enough - not one single PR student, and I’m sure none since. Given the dramatic changes, I’m not sure if there is any school left that has many non-locals, maybe the bottom of the barrel - which is where you’ll end up in phase 3 anyway, if you even get in.

Actually, if you go look at the vacancies available after SC/PR have registered this year, there are spaces for foreign kids to make up about 9.4% of a typical cohort size (2017 is an average births year). Of course, not all these spaces will be utilized due to concentrations, etc. But the fact is there are spaces available and foreign students are admitted. They just aren't the schools that are acceptable to everyone.

The funny thing is, if one tracks some of these foreign students from start to finish, he/she would know many of them qualify for any secondary school they want (and in certain secondary schools they are definitely there). Often times, these students had no tuition in primary school, and they definitely don't have tuition in secondary school/JC. I guess these are the kids that have time to pursue their other non-academic interests (there are certainly other local kids like this too).

Anyways, it's just like the brightest foreign students that go to the US for uni. Some are lucky and get to start at blah blah blah. Undoubtedly, they have a nicer experience and a better initial opportunity set. Others, say "just give me a chance." They are happy to take whatever they can get and they do extremely well from there, often surpassing the ones that thought a school was everything. At a minimum, they know what salaries and housing costs are in the talent centres on the coasts.

These are the kids that grow up with a very different mindset than their local peers, they know that grades are not everything and take the time to develop themselves holistically. Often times, like you mentioned, they end up doing very well for themselves.

[malcontent]

There are stats, but we are not privy to them.

The schools that used to be popular with non-locals have, in most cases, become locals only.

My daughter was one of the last PR students to gain entry at her primary school at phase 2C before they changed the rules. Giving SC students ultimate priority meant that any remaining seats at the school were up for grabs by any SC student on the entire island… then if anything was left, a PR student could fight/ballot for. So, when I checked the following year, sure enough - not one single PR student, and I’m sure none since. Given the dramatic changes, I’m not sure if there is any school left that has many non-locals, maybe the bottom of the barrel - which is where you’ll end up in phase 3 anyway, if you even get in.

Actually, if you go look at the vacancies available after SC/PR have registered this year, there are spaces for foreign kids to make up about 9.4% of a typical cohort size (2017 is an average births year). Of course, not all these spaces will be utilized due to concentrations, etc. But the fact is there are spaces available and foreign students are admitted. They just aren't the schools that are acceptable to everyone.

The funny thing is, if one tracks some of these foreign students from start to finish, he/she would know many of them qualify for any secondary school they want (and in certain secondary schools they are definitely there). Often times, these students had no tuition in primary school, and they definitely don't have tuition in secondary school/JC. I guess these are the kids that have time to pursue their other non-academic interests (there are certainly other local kids like this too).

Anyways, it's just like the brightest foreign students that go to the US for uni. Some are lucky and get to start at blah blah blah. Undoubtedly, they have a nicer experience and a better initial opportunity set. Others, say "just give me a chance." They are happy to take whatever they can get and they do extremely well from there, often surpassing the ones that thought a school was everything. At a minimum, they know what salaries and housing costs are in the talent centres on the coasts.

Obviously there is one major advantage at the secondary level for those who managed to get into a more desirable primary school that has an affiliation with a secondary school… and that comes in the form of a lower cutoff point (COP) on the PSLE for entry. Three of my nephews (who got into ACS) here took advantage of that — they would not have gotten into ACS primary based on the current rules.

I also got my daughter into a more desirable school that had an affiliated secondary, by ut her PSLE score ended up higher than we expected, so did not exercise that. But it’s worth noting that the discounted COP is significant, not just a minor difference.