Considering leaving Singapore

[hopeislife]

It really educates me a lot when i hear stories like WD40, especially when it comes with leaving a place you considered to be your home. Also, the emotions and views associated when moving as a family, as the childrens' lives are also tied to the move. WD40 could have gotten the PR , but yeah nowadays its very difficult. But personally, i dont know if the fact that sending amount back to India could have affected the chances of WD40 of PR (as from his old post below).

Are you a condo owner or still renting? I am getting to the point where every extra year that I rent, its going to hurt me.

I have blown away about 120k in rental in the last 6 years. I didn't think initially when I got here I will stay here this long.

So you haven't saved anything at all whilst being here?

Would you have been better off if you had stayed in India rather than living in Singapore for the past 6 years?

I have saved(actually grown, is the right word as I kept remitting to India for higher returns) about thrice that amount and you are right I am much better off here than India. But still the fact remains that 6 years of rent paid is wasted.

Anyway, I can understand the pain when one can't get the residency despite living here for long with lot of hopes. I wish you all the best and hope to hear from you that your move back to india was a good choice (in case, if you move to home)

[smoulder]

It really educates me a lot when i hear stories like WD40, especially when it comes with leaving a place you considered to be your home. Also, the emotions and views associated when moving as a family, as the childrens' lives are also tied to the move. WD40 could have gotten the PR , but yeah nowadays its very difficult. But personally, i dont know if the fact that sending amount back to India could have affected the chances of WD40 of PR (as from his old post below).

So you haven't saved anything at all whilst being here?

Would you have been better off if you had stayed in India rather than living in Singapore for the past 6 years?

I have saved(actually grown, is the right word as I kept remitting to India for higher returns) about thrice that amount and you are right I am much better off here than India. But still the fact remains that 6 years of rent paid is wasted.

Anyway, I can understand the pain when one can't get the residency despite living here for long with lot of hopes. I wish you all the best and hope to hear from you that your move back to india was a good choice (in case, if you move to home)

I have also wondered about the same thing in the past. Having said that, theoretically anyway, no one except the bank and the payment rail company would have access to the trail of where his money is going. So I wonder how the ICA would know. All they see is what he agrees to disclose which if I recall correctly, is his tax returns.

[hopeislife]

I have also wondered about the same thing in the past. Having said that, theoretically anyway, no one except the bank and the payment rail company would have access to the trail of where his money is going. So I wonder how the ICA would know. All they see is what he agrees to disclose which if I recall correctly, is his tax returns.

The following are the lines from PR-PTS which we sign for permitting ICA to verify our financial information


I consent and authorise the Immigration & Checkpoints Authority to obtain information and verify the financial information provided by me in respect of this application from or with the Inland Revenue Authority of Singapore and for them to disclose the information for the purpose of assessment of this application for the grant of an Entry Permit.

In the the first two lines along with 'with' can make one to think that it could also mean 'ICA can ask the local bank of the applicant to give details of any bulk transaction history (say >S$1000) and its frequency of being sent outside singapore'. Or may be i am looking too much in between lines but it is quite possible as ICA is powerful enough to do this. I also thought of stressing on the 'OR' as the option of ICA checking with IRAS is not the only way to verify the financial inflow or outflow. Of course, it is pretty obvious that ICA may get an opinion that you are trying to save money outside sg and so you may move out in future, hence, why give PR? (and this has been said in the forum 100's of times).

[smoulder]

From what I gather, the banks can and will share information for police investigations. Theoretically, they "could" share it with ICA, but the way I have always read that line is that you are giving consent for them to access IRAS details. Nothing about the rest of your bank account details or where you transfer money to.

[jalanjalan]

What a clear majority thinks about an authentic travel experience is pretty evident at any SEA hotel/resort buffet breakfast seeing white folks eating only baked beans, sausages, fried tomatoes and scrambled eggs.

Last year I went on a cruise up to Penang, hoping to have some angmo breakfast fare as I seldom make that at home, but the menu was all prata, rice, curry and dal which I eat all the time.

Huh? Almost hard to believe for a cruise. Specifically baked beans sort of breakfast? Bastards. I know a few places around where they serve pretty good angmoh breakfasts too, not baked beans though. Can share locations

Considering the demographics of the cruise passengers the menu choice made sense. If I want the full bacon, eggs and pancake spread these days I make it myself (or order mcd's), but that's seldom cos seriously is not good for me.

[jalanjalan]

The following are the lines from PR-PTS which we sign for permitting ICA to verify our financial information


I consent and authorise the Immigration & Checkpoints Authority to obtain information and verify the financial information provided by me in respect of this application from or with the Inland Revenue Authority of Singapore and for them to disclose the information for the purpose of assessment of this application for the grant of an Entry Permit.

In the the first two lines along with 'with' can make one to think that it could also mean 'ICA can ask the local bank of the applicant to give details of any bulk transaction history (say >S$1000) and its frequency of being sent outside singapore'. Or may be i am looking too much in between lines but it is quite possible as ICA is powerful enough to do this. I also thought of stressing on the 'OR' as the option of ICA checking with IRAS is not the only way to verify the financial inflow or outflow. Of course, it is pretty obvious that ICA may get an opinion that you are trying to save money outside sg and so you may move out in future, hence, why give PR? (and this has been said in the forum 100's of times).

I suppose they could ask for bank transaction details but I don't recall providing that. I transferred money overseas to pay for my student loan and it apparently made no difference. I'd guess if it didn't raise any red flag with the bank, why would ICA care? Just normal transactions.
I assumed they just meant to check IRAS and probably CPF.

[Wd40]

If there is shortage of rental units the easy way to fix it is to do away with the MOP for people who already own houses. Why make them wait for 5 years? Just release a lot of rental.supply into the market.

HDB is not for speculation (as it is heavily subsidized by the gahmen). MOP restricts that.

ABSD takes care of speculation and in any case, if you have a condo you cannot buy HDB.

What I am suggesting is for the existing stock of houses already transacted and under the MOP restriction, these can be allowed to be rented out and increase the rental units supply.

[smoulder]

MOP AND ABSD were both measures taken to curb speculation. It's not just one thing as far as I know.

[Lisafuller]

Thanks! Yes, I am just venting it out here. BTW, I read that MoM has released the foreign workers stats as of Dec 2022. I find it strange, the number of EP holders has not crossed the peak of Dec 2019, yet rents have skyrocketed. I wonder what has caused the housing shortage. In 2018, there were so many houses vacant, we were spoilt for choice.

https://www.mom.gov.sg/documents-and-pu ... ce-numbers

Likely construction delays, demand for more space, and young adults that want to live on their own. The first factor will ease with completions this year. Whether prices break remains to be seen.

I'm sure they will in time. Not possible for them to continue rising infinitely.

[Lisafuller]

I've read anonymous reports of female tourists being raped in Singapore when cutting through a park at dark. It still pays to be Vigilant. Having just spent three weeks hiking around PNG though and needing to be aware of where my stuff was all the time it's a relief to be back.

Definitely always important to be vigilant. Can't count how many times I've had to remind my daughter to keep the headphones off when walking alone at night, she is very aware of her surroundings, but I also fear that she takes the safety here for granted sometimes.

Yes. The younger ones are definitely at risk. "No crime doesn't mean low crime" actually means "We, the SPF, are too damn lazy to do any work so we trash your reports of crime and it helps out statistics".

The SPF does good work, but even with their best efforts it's impossible to eliminate all crime or their jobs would be redundant.

[Lisafuller]

That is one thing that has always puzzled me here. I don’t see much effort being made innovate or improve productivity, despite stated objectives to reduce reliance on foreign labor.

Meanwhile, back in the US…

I go into a physical bank and all the live tellers are now video kiosks, you scan your identity document, explain what you want over zoom, the machine spits out whatever you need.

I go into a restaurant and it’s mostly fast casual concept — you order and bring your own food back to your table.

I go to gas station and it’s all self-service, the car wash is humanness, automated and robotic.

I go to the grocery store and it’s now mostly self check out.

Oh, and I tried the physical Amazon Go store for the first time in my life — now that really is slick: just tap your contactless credit card to enter, grab whatever you want, and leave like you stole it. It magically bills you for whatever you took. On my last visit it said I spent a total of 18 seconds in the store, enough to select the drink I wanted and leave. Now that is some hyper productivity!

There was an attendant-free Cheers store here several years ago. Not to the scale of the stuff Amazon is doing, but for drinks and snacks it worked. I haven't been there in a long time or seen it rolled out elsewhere (not sure why). I think fastfood kiosks were here before the US?

But generally, there is more innovation there, especially high-end inventions or technology (more dynamic economy). For low-end stuff, some of their wage laws may be pushing the substitution.

There are some unmanned stores around Singapore, I know there's one in NUS (or one of the other unis). It's a great idea, open 24/7 and suitable for a place like SG where petty crime is significantly lower than overseas.

[Lisafuller]

If there is shortage of rental units the easy way to fix it is to do away with the MOP for people who already own houses. Why make them wait for 5 years? Just release a lot of rental.supply into the market.

I, too, think it's stupid and unnecessary. However, because the homes are so heavily subsidized by the government, they don't want that to be taken advantage of.

[Lisafuller]

That is one thing that has always puzzled me here. I don’t see much effort being made innovate or improve productivity, despite stated objectives to reduce reliance on foreign labor.

Meanwhile, back in the US…

I go into a physical bank and all the live tellers are now video kiosks, you scan your identity document, explain what you want over zoom, the machine spits out whatever you need.

I go into a restaurant and it’s mostly fast casual concept — you order and bring your own food back to your table.

I go to gas station and it’s all self-service, the car wash is humanness, automated and robotic.

I go to the grocery store and it’s now mostly self check out.

Oh, and I tried the physical Amazon Go store for the first time in my life — now that really is slick: just tap your contactless credit card to enter, grab whatever you want, and leave like you stole it. It magically bills you for whatever you took. On my last visit it said I spent a total of 18 seconds in the store, enough to select the drink I wanted and leave. Now that is some hyper productivity!

I wish I could do 18 seconds, but knowing me I'd probably get distracted right away and leave hours later

[Lisafuller]

Last year I went on a cruise up to Penang, hoping to have some angmo breakfast fare as I seldom make that at home, but the menu was all prata, rice, curry and dal which I eat all the time.

Huh? Almost hard to believe for a cruise. Specifically baked beans sort of breakfast? Bastards. I know a few places around where they serve pretty good angmoh breakfasts too, not baked beans though. Can share locations

Considering the demographics of the cruise passengers the menu choice made sense. If I want the full bacon, eggs and pancake spread these days I make it myself (or order mcd's), but that's seldom cos seriously is not good for me.

If you like Mickey D breakfast you should really give Burger King ago. They make good pancakes, and an excellent croissant breakfast sandwich.

[Wd40]

MOP AND ABSD were both measures taken to curb speculation. It's not just one thing as far as I know.

Yes, but I just think you need to recalibrate when the situation demands it. There is a genuine shortage of rental spaces and unlocking the HDBs which are currently under MOP will ease the pressure. They can keep the MOP for selling to avoid speculation. Also keep the MOP for new buys for renting out as well. But for transactions that have happened until now, just let them rent out liberally, without restrictions.