Considering leaving Singapore

[Lisafuller]

Well, though I dare say I had a good thing going for myself in the US, I personally have always seen the merit in being here, which is why I made the move and am still here decades later. If you are so confident in the quality of life you'll enjoy in India (entirely valid), then it's your call.

The difference is you have a PR/citizenship. SG is a nanny state. Takes very good care of its citizens as if they were their own children. But foreigners are like step children here.

India has poor quality of life. But it is a good place for kids to learn and grow Vs Singapore. It prepares you for the big bad world. Growing up as foreigner kids in Singapore is a lose lose, the kids don't learn any skills required in the real world plus after they are 18, Singapore pretty much closes itself to the foreigner kids. Hence my concern.

When I moved to SG some 20 years ago, I had no guarantee of securing PR. It was a leap of faith, and for many years I continued to deepen my roots without any such guarantee because I believed in the opportunities the country would afford me.

Though I'll be returning to the states sometime in the next couple years, I have no regrets spending over 2 decades here.

That being said, if I hadn't managed to secure PR after a certain number of years (can't comment as it's hypothetical), I'm not sure that I would have stayed nearly as long blindly.

And as a parent, I completely understand your concerns. At the end of the day, you have to do what feels right. A lot of times what feels right is different from what's logical.

[Lisafuller]

The only good thing about Singapore is that it is a sterile place, where women can roam totally carelessly without fear of getting molested and this isnt the case with India. In India you need to watch your back. But I think that is normal in most countries, you cannot be as careless as you can be in Singapore.

Hm, I wouldn't quite go that far - the old saying "low crime doesn't mean no crime" holds true. Women have to watch their backs pretty much everywhere and weigh the risks. As a young woman, I did get some unwanted attention, which evaporated like magic as soon as my husband showed up.
What I like about Singapore is, as an older person, you can feel pretty safe. There seems to be a strong taboo against messing with old uncles and aunties.

Definitely a cultural thing. Locals are big on respecting elders.

While I agree that low crime isn't no crime, I must say I have never felt unsafe as a woman in SG. When I was younger there were times where I felt uncomfortable (when catcalled etc), but never unsafe. I do think that is worth something.

[Lisafuller]

One thing that Malcontent mentioned which applies to you too - getting complacent in Singapore. I have seen that a few times. It's bad for your long term career and life goals. I would move back. I like India and have considered moving there as a foreigner. It really is an amazing country with it's own set of great opportunities.

It's definitely amazing, but also not very safe for women, especially young women.

[malcontent]

That is one of several complacencies people tend to develop here - to lose a normal sense of vigilance for their own safety… which is an essential life skill “in the real world” or at least much of the world outside the confines of Singapore. Unless you simply want to remain island bound forever. I would not recommend it — there is a big world out there and lot to be gained by getting out. I wouldn’t want safety to be a constraint in that pursuit.

One YT vlogger I follow, Vagabond Awake, is a perpetual traveler from the US who spent most of Covid in Latin American countries with his Malaysian Chinese SO. They spent months in countries that are generally considered some of the most challenging in the world for personal safety, and did just fine through it all - without spending extra to do so. I have to hand it to them, they really dare to venture out and live like locals wherever they are in the world.

[Lisafuller]

That is one of several complacencies people tend to develop here - to lose a normal sense of vigilance for their own safety… which is an essential life skill “in the real world” or at least much of the world outside the confines of Singapore. Unless you simply want to remain island bound forever. I would not recommend it — there is a big world out there and lot to be gained by getting out. I wouldn’t want safety to be a constraint in that pursuit.

One YT vlogger I follow, Vagabond Awake, is a perpetual traveler from the US who spent most of Covid in Latin American countries with his Malaysian Chinese SO. They spent months in countries that are generally considered some of the most challenging in the world for personal safety, and did just fine through it all - without spending extra to do so. I have to hand it to them, they really dare to venture out and live like locals wherever they are in the world.

That's the key to an authentic travel experience. The way to see if you really like a country is to live like a local there. I recall reading an article about a foreigner who came to Singapore and said he didn't like it as it felt too artificial and man-made when he only visited the MBS area. I mean, come on.

[malcontent]

That is one of several complacencies people tend to develop here - to lose a normal sense of vigilance for their own safety… which is an essential life skill “in the real world” or at least much of the world outside the confines of Singapore. Unless you simply want to remain island bound forever. I would not recommend it — there is a big world out there and lot to be gained by getting out. I wouldn’t want safety to be a constraint in that pursuit.

One YT vlogger I follow, Vagabond Awake, is a perpetual traveler from the US who spent most of Covid in Latin American countries with his Malaysian Chinese SO. They spent months in countries that are generally considered some of the most challenging in the world for personal safety, and did just fine through it all - without spending extra to do so. I have to hand it to them, they really dare to venture out and live like locals wherever they are in the world.

That's the key to an authentic travel experience. The way to see if you really like a country is to live like a local there. I recall reading an article about a foreigner who came to Singapore and said he didn't like it as it felt too artificial and man-made when he only visited the MBS area. I mean, come on.

Agree, that is like biting into an apple expecting an orange. Go to a city expecting the country… ignorant.

I have to admit that I am ignorant about personal safety in Latin America, having never been there in my life. I just know the stats show around double the crime rate vs. the US and have heard anecdotal cautionary tales, so I plan to venture there in the coming years and see for myself. The Caribbean is another place I have never been… a lot of ground to cover.

[x9200]

That is one of several complacencies people tend to develop here - to lose a normal sense of vigilance for their own safety… which is an essential life skill “in the real world” or at least much of the world outside the confines of Singapore. Unless you simply want to remain island bound forever. I would not recommend it — there is a big world out there and lot to be gained by getting out. I wouldn’t want safety to be a constraint in that pursuit.

One YT vlogger I follow, Vagabond Awake, is a perpetual traveler from the US who spent most of Covid in Latin American countries with his Malaysian Chinese SO. They spent months in countries that are generally considered some of the most challenging in the world for personal safety, and did just fine through it all - without spending extra to do so. I have to hand it to them, they really dare to venture out and live like locals wherever they are in the world.

That's the key to an authentic travel experience. The way to see if you really like a country is to live like a local there. I recall reading an article about a foreigner who came to Singapore and said he didn't like it as it felt too artificial and man-made when he only visited the MBS area. I mean, come on.

What a clear majority thinks about an authentic travel experience is pretty evident at any SEA hotel/resort buffet breakfast seeing white folks eating only baked beans, sausages, fried tomatoes and scrambled eggs.

[malcontent]

That is one of several complacencies people tend to develop here - to lose a normal sense of vigilance for their own safety… which is an essential life skill “in the real world” or at least much of the world outside the confines of Singapore. Unless you simply want to remain island bound forever. I would not recommend it — there is a big world out there and lot to be gained by getting out. I wouldn’t want safety to be a constraint in that pursuit.

One YT vlogger I follow, Vagabond Awake, is a perpetual traveler from the US who spent most of Covid in Latin American countries with his Malaysian Chinese SO. They spent months in countries that are generally considered some of the most challenging in the world for personal safety, and did just fine through it all - without spending extra to do so. I have to hand it to them, they really dare to venture out and live like locals wherever they are in the world.

That's the key to an authentic travel experience. The way to see if you really like a country is to live like a local there. I recall reading an article about a foreigner who came to Singapore and said he didn't like it as it felt too artificial and man-made when he only visited the MBS area. I mean, come on.

What a clear majority thinks about an authentic travel experience is pretty evident at any SEA hotel/resort buffet breakfast seeing white folks eating only baked beans, sausages, fried tomatoes and scrambled eggs.

Food neophobia is not exclusive to white folks, but I try to reserve judgment when I see such a spectacle… there are a lot of reasons one might choose western food at the breakfast buffet. Sometimes it’s simply that local breakfast options at the buffet just aren’t that great.

But in my case, I’ve been in Asia so long that good western food is a rare treat. I still recall when I used to make trips to the Philippines, I would seek out western food there because nowhere in Asia does it better, or cheaper - and there’s no shortage of Asian food in my diet; so I certainly don’t mind the variety now and again.

[Wd40]

I am going to renew my rental agreement for 3.5k a month. This is a 30% of my gross salary. Thats like ridiculous amount to be paying on rent. But I guess, no choice. This is Switzerland of Asia, only costwise. Quality-wise the place I live is pretty rundown HDB, it is so hot and sweaty and mosquitoes bite me all the time. What the hell is it with Jurong and mosquitoes. It feels really like third world living stds at 1st world prices.

[Lisafuller]

That's the key to an authentic travel experience. The way to see if you really like a country is to live like a local there. I recall reading an article about a foreigner who came to Singapore and said he didn't like it as it felt too artificial and man-made when he only visited the MBS area. I mean, come on.

What a clear majority thinks about an authentic travel experience is pretty evident at any SEA hotel/resort buffet breakfast seeing white folks eating only baked beans, sausages, fried tomatoes and scrambled eggs.

Food neophobia is not exclusive to white folks, but I try to reserve judgment when I see such a spectacle… there are a lot of reasons one might choose western food at the breakfast buffet. Sometimes it’s simply that local breakfast options at the buffet just aren’t that great.

But in my case, I’ve been in Asia so long that good western food is a rare treat. I still recall when I used to make trips to the Philippines, I would seek out western food there because nowhere in Asia does it better, or cheaper - and there’s no shortage of Asian food in my diet; so I certainly don’t mind the variety now and again.

Have you tried Botak Jones, by any chance? Curious to hear what you think.

[Lisafuller]

That is one of several complacencies people tend to develop here - to lose a normal sense of vigilance for their own safety… which is an essential life skill “in the real world” or at least much of the world outside the confines of Singapore. Unless you simply want to remain island bound forever. I would not recommend it — there is a big world out there and lot to be gained by getting out. I wouldn’t want safety to be a constraint in that pursuit.

One YT vlogger I follow, Vagabond Awake, is a perpetual traveler from the US who spent most of Covid in Latin American countries with his Malaysian Chinese SO. They spent months in countries that are generally considered some of the most challenging in the world for personal safety, and did just fine through it all - without spending extra to do so. I have to hand it to them, they really dare to venture out and live like locals wherever they are in the world.

That's the key to an authentic travel experience. The way to see if you really like a country is to live like a local there. I recall reading an article about a foreigner who came to Singapore and said he didn't like it as it felt too artificial and man-made when he only visited the MBS area. I mean, come on.

Agree, that is like biting into an apple expecting an orange. Go to a city expecting the country… ignorant.

I have to admit that I am ignorant about personal safety in Latin America, having never been there in my life. I just know the stats show around double the crime rate vs. the US and have heard anecdotal cautionary tales, so I plan to venture there in the coming years and see for myself. The Caribbean is another place I have never been… a lot of ground to cover.

I've only been to Latin America a handful of times on cruises which is as touristy as you get. Costa Rica was my favorite. Jamaica and Mexico are also beautiful. I will say that I had a very nice purse go missing in Jamaica.

[Lisafuller]

That is one of several complacencies people tend to develop here - to lose a normal sense of vigilance for their own safety… which is an essential life skill “in the real world” or at least much of the world outside the confines of Singapore. Unless you simply want to remain island bound forever. I would not recommend it — there is a big world out there and lot to be gained by getting out. I wouldn’t want safety to be a constraint in that pursuit.

One YT vlogger I follow, Vagabond Awake, is a perpetual traveler from the US who spent most of Covid in Latin American countries with his Malaysian Chinese SO. They spent months in countries that are generally considered some of the most challenging in the world for personal safety, and did just fine through it all - without spending extra to do so. I have to hand it to them, they really dare to venture out and live like locals wherever they are in the world.

That's the key to an authentic travel experience. The way to see if you really like a country is to live like a local there. I recall reading an article about a foreigner who came to Singapore and said he didn't like it as it felt too artificial and man-made when he only visited the MBS area. I mean, come on.

What a clear majority thinks about an authentic travel experience is pretty evident at any SEA hotel/resort buffet breakfast seeing white folks eating only baked beans, sausages, fried tomatoes and scrambled eggs.

I feel sad for these people, imagine taking the time and money to travel all the way here and then eating what you would back in your homes. Ridiculous.

[malcontent]

What a clear majority thinks about an authentic travel experience is pretty evident at any SEA hotel/resort buffet breakfast seeing white folks eating only baked beans, sausages, fried tomatoes and scrambled eggs.

Food neophobia is not exclusive to white folks, but I try to reserve judgment when I see such a spectacle… there are a lot of reasons one might choose western food at the breakfast buffet. Sometimes it’s simply that local breakfast options at the buffet just aren’t that great.

But in my case, I’ve been in Asia so long that good western food is a rare treat. I still recall when I used to make trips to the Philippines, I would seek out western food there because nowhere in Asia does it better, or cheaper - and there’s no shortage of Asian food in my diet; so I certainly don’t mind the variety now and again.

Have you tried Botak Jones, by any chance? Curious to hear what you think.

I think my first Botak Jones experience was out in Tuas back in the late 90’s or early 00’s, and I’ve partaken ever since, though not post-Covid… not sure where he’s at now. I won’t say I’m a fan of all dishes, but his Cajun chicken has never disappointed. It was also one of the few places you could get a genuine beef hot dog - not a regular indulgence, but nice on rare occasions. Dairy Queen here used to have a half-way decent beef dog back in the day. Still, nothing beats store bought premium angus beef hot dogs in the US. It was near top of my list on my first post-Covid trip to the US. Just last week I got my dog fix at a Chicago Cubs game. Travel opening up has definitely cured some cravings.

[malcontent]

That's the key to an authentic travel experience. The way to see if you really like a country is to live like a local there. I recall reading an article about a foreigner who came to Singapore and said he didn't like it as it felt too artificial and man-made when he only visited the MBS area. I mean, come on.

What a clear majority thinks about an authentic travel experience is pretty evident at any SEA hotel/resort buffet breakfast seeing white folks eating only baked beans, sausages, fried tomatoes and scrambled eggs.

I feel sad for these people, imagine taking the time and money to travel all the way here and then eating what you would back in your homes. Ridiculous.

They are missing out — that is for sure. Although I was eating local from day one arrival here, I certainly wish I had been more open to certain local food and drinks in my early days. I stubbornly resisted teh tarik for probably a decade. Now I can barely live without it — make it myself at home almost every day.

[x9200]

That's the key to an authentic travel experience. The way to see if you really like a country is to live like a local there. I recall reading an article about a foreigner who came to Singapore and said he didn't like it as it felt too artificial and man-made when he only visited the MBS area. I mean, come on.

What a clear majority thinks about an authentic travel experience is pretty evident at any SEA hotel/resort buffet breakfast seeing white folks eating only baked beans, sausages, fried tomatoes and scrambled eggs.

I feel sad for these people, imagine taking the time and money to travel all the way here and then eating what you would back in your homes. Ridiculous.

That food is often worse than what they get home. I used to think they might be afraid that Asian food is always very spicy, hot, but I've seen so many such buffets with really mouth watering looking Asian food, not spicy at all (because they cater also for Western tourist what is here my problem) and people not event willing to try it? That is ridiculous. It is not like you must have some developed taste to enjoy fried noodles or pho.

BTW, I made this mistake by myself actually. I am not a big connoisseur of Chinese-style soups. Still like them (unfortunately including infamous shark fin soup), but not a top of my must eat list. So I sort of avoided Phos for many years. Oh boy, how wrong I was.