Considering leaving Singapore

[Wd40]

Very valid. I guess you really have to ask yourself if the uncertainty is worth the pleasure of living here. From your other posts, it seems you've done very well for yourself financially, so obviously you'd live a kings life in India, but your daughter is presumably doing very well here socially, and receiving the best education she possibly could. So which is more important?

I dont really agree that she is receiving the best education here. She goes to an Indian International School, because she was denied a local school seat. So she is living here in a confused state, all her friends, eating habits, etc are Indian, but she lives in Singapore. I dont think the local education system any good either. But I will not get into that debate.

The only good thing about Singapore is that it is a sterile place, where women can roam totally carelessly without fear of getting molested and this isnt the case with India. In India you need to watch your back. But I think that is normal in most countries, you cannot be as careless as you can be in Singapore.

The other advantage is the convinience in Singapore, public transport enables people who dont know how to drive a car or motorcycle, to be independent. Basically you can be a total wimp and yet get away in Singapore. In India or even Indonesia or Malaysia I have seen women ride two wheelers or cars and thats how they become independent.

But this is also the reason why Singaporeans cannot really compete globally or even locally. When they dont face any hardships and everything is easy, there is no hunger to achieve anything and in general you tend to take the easy risk averse path in life.

Indian kids who grow up in India are much more street smart, ambitious and well rounded compared to the Indian kids who grow up in Singapore.

[NYY1]

...
But this is also the reason why Singaporeans cannot really compete globally or even locally. When they dont face any hardships and everything is easy, there is no hunger to achieve anything and in general you tend to take the easy risk averse path in life.

Indian kids who grow up in India are much more street smart, ambitious and well rounded compared to the Indian kids who grow up in Singapore.

Whether the country is rich or poor, there are always people with ambition and the desire to achieve the unthinkable and people that are just trying to get by (avoid the rat race, live a happy life, take care of your family, and hope health isn't an issue). Immigrants by nature, tend to be the former, at least initially. Sometimes it is just the desire to get out of where they are, and then they drift more towards the second group. Go look at any of these developed countries; some that immigrated are extremely high flyers while others become solid, above average wage earners but really just some other minion (not that there's anything wrong with that, everyone has a different definition of success or mission accomplished). For the latter, often the expectations for the next generation relax as well (which is what some try to avoid).

Anyways, whether you stay or go your kid will have to forge her own path to get somewhere else (if that is desired), and as alluded to that's not always a bad thing. Even if you try to stay here for 5-6 years, at some point you may not be able to do so. I think in the end it is ultimately about choice. People tend to feel happy when they can do what they want. In contrast, being forced to do something doesn't feel so good, even if the tangible factors are not all that different. If you recognize the above and instill the right mindset in your kid, everything will be fine, regardless of the path and any detours.

[Lisafuller]

Very valid. I guess you really have to ask yourself if the uncertainty is worth the pleasure of living here. From your other posts, it seems you've done very well for yourself financially, so obviously you'd live a kings life in India, but your daughter is presumably doing very well here socially, and receiving the best education she possibly could. So which is more important?

I dont really agree that she is receiving the best education here. She goes to an Indian International School, because she was denied a local school seat. So she is living here in a confused state, all her friends, eating habits, etc are Indian, but she lives in Singapore. I dont think the local education system any good either. But I will not get into that debate.

The only good thing about Singapore is that it is a sterile place, where women can roam totally carelessly without fear of getting molested and this isnt the case with India. In India you need to watch your back. But I think that is normal in most countries, you cannot be as careless as you can be in Singapore.

The other advantage is the convinience in Singapore, public transport enables people who dont know how to drive a car or motorcycle, to be independent. Basically you can be a total wimp and yet get away in Singapore. In India or even Indonesia or Malaysia I have seen women ride two wheelers or cars and thats how they become independent.

But this is also the reason why Singaporeans cannot really compete globally or even locally. When they dont face any hardships and everything is easy, there is no hunger to achieve anything and in general you tend to take the easy risk averse path in life.

Indian kids who grow up in India are much more street smart, ambitious and well rounded compared to the Indian kids who grow up in Singapore.

GIIS I assume? Don't know if any other Indian international school. In all honesty, I haven't heard the best things about it. It doesn't seem to be the most well endowed, whether in terms of teachers or campus resources. Still, I think it's a pretty safe back to say it would be better than what she might get an India. But maybe I don't know enough about the education system there.

As for the kids that grow up here, it's certainly true that being brought up in a more sheltered environment creates children with a false sense of security that will shock them went outside of singapore, but I do think what they lose in independence they gain in terms of having a sense of worldliness. Singapore is a global hub and children are offered plenty of educational and professional opportunities that are hard to find elsewhere.

[Lisafuller]

...
But this is also the reason why Singaporeans cannot really compete globally or even locally. When they dont face any hardships and everything is easy, there is no hunger to achieve anything and in general you tend to take the easy risk averse path in life.

Indian kids who grow up in India are much more street smart, ambitious and well rounded compared to the Indian kids who grow up in Singapore.

Whether the country is rich or poor, there are always people with ambition and the desire to achieve the unthinkable and people that are just trying to get by (avoid the rat race, live a happy life, take care of your family, and hope health isn't an issue). Immigrants by nature, tend to be the former, at least initially. Sometimes it is just the desire to get out of where they are, and then they drift more towards the second group. Go look at any of these developed countries; some that immigrated are extremely high flyers while others become solid, above average wage earners but really just some other minion (not that there's anything wrong with that, everyone has a different definition of success or mission accomplished). For the latter, often the expectations for the next generation relax as well (which is what some try to avoid).

Anyways, whether you stay or go your kid will have to forge her own path to get somewhere else (if that is desired), and as alluded to that's not always a bad thing. Even if you try to stay here for 5-6 years, at some point you may not be able to do so. I think in the end it is ultimately about choice. People tend to feel happy when they can do what they want. In contrast, being forced to do something doesn't feel so good, even if the tangible factors are not all that different. If you recognize the above and instill the right mindset in your kid, everything will be fine, regardless of the path and any detours.

Right. Relocating to India of your own accord will always feel better than being "forced" to, for lack of a better word.

[Wd40]

Very valid. I guess you really have to ask yourself if the uncertainty is worth the pleasure of living here. From your other posts, it seems you've done very well for yourself financially, so obviously you'd live a kings life in India, but your daughter is presumably doing very well here socially, and receiving the best education she possibly could. So which is more important?

I dont really agree that she is receiving the best education here. She goes to an Indian International School, because she was denied a local school seat. So she is living here in a confused state, all her friends, eating habits, etc are Indian, but she lives in Singapore. I dont think the local education system any good either. But I will not get into that debate.

The only good thing about Singapore is that it is a sterile place, where women can roam totally carelessly without fear of getting molested and this isnt the case with India. In India you need to watch your back. But I think that is normal in most countries, you cannot be as careless as you can be in Singapore.

The other advantage is the convinience in Singapore, public transport enables people who dont know how to drive a car or motorcycle, to be independent. Basically you can be a total wimp and yet get away in Singapore. In India or even Indonesia or Malaysia I have seen women ride two wheelers or cars and thats how they become independent.

But this is also the reason why Singaporeans cannot really compete globally or even locally. When they dont face any hardships and everything is easy, there is no hunger to achieve anything and in general you tend to take the easy risk averse path in life.

Indian kids who grow up in India are much more street smart, ambitious and well rounded compared to the Indian kids who grow up in Singapore.

GIIS I assume? Don't know if any other Indian international school. In all honesty, I haven't heard the best things about it. It doesn't seem to be the most well endowed, whether in terms of teachers or campus resources. Still, I think it's a pretty safe back to say it would be better than what she might get an India. But maybe I don't know enough about the education system there.

As for the kids that grow up here, it's certainly true that being brought up in a more sheltered environment creates children with a false sense of security that will shock them went outside of singapore, but I do think what they lose in independence they gain in terms of having a sense of worldliness. Singapore is a global hub and children are offered plenty of educational and professional opportunities that are hard to find elsewhere.

I will not try to break your bubble, but whole world is globalized now. India is a huge country but we belong to the top 1% there who live and work in big cities and they are as globalized, even more than Singapore.

[smoulder]

Very valid. I guess you really have to ask yourself if the uncertainty is worth the pleasure of living here. From your other posts, it seems you've done very well for yourself financially, so obviously you'd live a kings life in India, but your daughter is presumably doing very well here socially, and receiving the best education she possibly could. So which is more important?

I dont really agree that she is receiving the best education here. She goes to an Indian International School, because she was denied a local school seat. So she is living here in a confused state, all her friends, eating habits, etc are Indian, but she lives in Singapore. I dont think the local education system any good either. But I will not get into that debate.

The only good thing about Singapore is that it is a sterile place, where women can roam totally carelessly without fear of getting molested and this isnt the case with India. In India you need to watch your back. But I think that is normal in most countries, you cannot be as careless as you can be in Singapore.

The other advantage is the convinience in Singapore, public transport enables people who dont know how to drive a car or motorcycle, to be independent. Basically you can be a total wimp and yet get away in Singapore. In India or even Indonesia or Malaysia I have seen women ride two wheelers or cars and thats how they become independent.

But this is also the reason why Singaporeans cannot really compete globally or even locally. When they dont face any hardships and everything is easy, there is no hunger to achieve anything and in general you tend to take the easy risk averse path in life.

Indian kids who grow up in India are much more street smart, ambitious and well rounded compared to the Indian kids who grow up in Singapore.

GIIS I assume? Don't know if any other Indian international school. In all honesty, I haven't heard the best things about it. It doesn't seem to be the most well endowed, whether in terms of teachers or campus resources. Still, I think it's a pretty safe back to say it would be better than what she might get an India. But maybe I don't know enough about the education system there.

No offense, but that's quite an ignorant statement. GIIS has just one single "advantage" over top schools in tier 1 cities in India - that it is located in a developed country vs a not so developed one.

[smoulder]

Wd40, now that you wrote your thoughts about the pros and cons of moving back on your own terms, I do think that there is a lot of merit in that decision.

The only thing I would suggest is to consider if you have any other options (other countries) as well.

[EverettHawthorne]

I dont really agree that she is receiving the best education here. She goes to an Indian International School, because she was denied a local school seat. So she is living here in a confused state, all her friends, eating habits, etc are Indian, but she lives in Singapore. I dont think the local education system any good either. But I will not get into that debate.

The only good thing about Singapore is that it is a sterile place, where women can roam totally carelessly without fear of getting molested and this isnt the case with India. In India you need to watch your back. But I think that is normal in most countries, you cannot be as careless as you can be in Singapore.

The other advantage is the convinience in Singapore, public transport enables people who dont know how to drive a car or motorcycle, to be independent. Basically you can be a total wimp and yet get away in Singapore. In India or even Indonesia or Malaysia I have seen women ride two wheelers or cars and thats how they become independent.

But this is also the reason why Singaporeans cannot really compete globally or even locally. When they dont face any hardships and everything is easy, there is no hunger to achieve anything and in general you tend to take the easy risk averse path in life.

Indian kids who grow up in India are much more street smart, ambitious and well rounded compared to the Indian kids who grow up in Singapore.

GIIS I assume? Don't know if any other Indian international school. In all honesty, I haven't heard the best things about it. It doesn't seem to be the most well endowed, whether in terms of teachers or campus resources. Still, I think it's a pretty safe back to say it would be better than what she might get an India. But maybe I don't know enough about the education system there.

As for the kids that grow up here, it's certainly true that being brought up in a more sheltered environment creates children with a false sense of security that will shock them went outside of singapore, but I do think what they lose in independence they gain in terms of having a sense of worldliness. Singapore is a global hub and children are offered plenty of educational and professional opportunities that are hard to find elsewhere.

I will not try to break your bubble, but whole world is globalized now. India is a huge country but we belong to the top 1% there who live and work in big cities and they are as globalized, even more than Singapore.

So what brings you here? The doors are always open.

[bro75]

GIIS I assume? Don't know if any other Indian International School. In all honesty, I haven't heard the best things about it. It doesn't seem to be the most well endowed, whether in terms of teachers or campus resources. Still, I think it's a pretty safe back to say it would be better than what she might get an India. But maybe I don't know enough about the education system there.

As for the kids that grow up here, it's certainly true that being brought up in a more sheltered environment creates children with a false sense of security that will shock them went outside of singapore, but I do think what they lose in independence they gain in terms of having a sense of worldliness. Singapore is a global hub and children are offered plenty of educational and professional opportunities that are hard to find elsewhere.

I will not try to break your bubble, but whole world is globalized now. India is a huge country but we belong to the top 1% there who live and work in big cities and they are as globalized, even more than Singapore.

So what brings you here? The doors are always open.

Whether to go through that door is the point of all this discussion.

WD40, whatever it is you decide, good luck. As for me, I will stay here while I and my wife are both employed. If that changes, then we will make that decision. But we are prepared for plan B too which is to go back home.

[Lisafuller]

I dont really agree that she is receiving the best education here. She goes to an Indian International School, because she was denied a local school seat. So she is living here in a confused state, all her friends, eating habits, etc are Indian, but she lives in Singapore. I dont think the local education system any good either. But I will not get into that debate.

The only good thing about Singapore is that it is a sterile place, where women can roam totally carelessly without fear of getting molested and this isnt the case with India. In India you need to watch your back. But I think that is normal in most countries, you cannot be as careless as you can be in Singapore.

The other advantage is the convinience in Singapore, public transport enables people who dont know how to drive a car or motorcycle, to be independent. Basically you can be a total wimp and yet get away in Singapore. In India or even Indonesia or Malaysia I have seen women ride two wheelers or cars and thats how they become independent.

But this is also the reason why Singaporeans cannot really compete globally or even locally. When they dont face any hardships and everything is easy, there is no hunger to achieve anything and in general you tend to take the easy risk averse path in life.

Indian kids who grow up in India are much more street smart, ambitious and well rounded compared to the Indian kids who grow up in Singapore.

GIIS I assume? Don't know if any other Indian international school. In all honesty, I haven't heard the best things about it. It doesn't seem to be the most well endowed, whether in terms of teachers or campus resources. Still, I think it's a pretty safe back to say it would be better than what she might get an India. But maybe I don't know enough about the education system there.

As for the kids that grow up here, it's certainly true that being brought up in a more sheltered environment creates children with a false sense of security that will shock them went outside of singapore, but I do think what they lose in independence they gain in terms of having a sense of worldliness. Singapore is a global hub and children are offered plenty of educational and professional opportunities that are hard to find elsewhere.

I will not try to break your bubble, but whole world is globalized now. India is a huge country but we belong to the top 1% there who live and work in big cities and they are as globalized, even more than Singapore.

Well, though I dare say I had a good thing going for myself in the US, I personally have always seen the merit in being here, which is why I made the move and am still here decades later. If you are so confident in the quality of life you'll enjoy in India (entirely valid), then it's your call.

[Lisafuller]

I dont really agree that she is receiving the best education here. She goes to an Indian International School, because she was denied a local school seat. So she is living here in a confused state, all her friends, eating habits, etc are Indian, but she lives in Singapore. I dont think the local education system any good either. But I will not get into that debate.

The only good thing about Singapore is that it is a sterile place, where women can roam totally carelessly without fear of getting molested and this isnt the case with India. In India you need to watch your back. But I think that is normal in most countries, you cannot be as careless as you can be in Singapore.

The other advantage is the convinience in Singapore, public transport enables people who dont know how to drive a car or motorcycle, to be independent. Basically you can be a total wimp and yet get away in Singapore. In India or even Indonesia or Malaysia I have seen women ride two wheelers or cars and thats how they become independent.

But this is also the reason why Singaporeans cannot really compete globally or even locally. When they dont face any hardships and everything is easy, there is no hunger to achieve anything and in general you tend to take the easy risk averse path in life.

Indian kids who grow up in India are much more street smart, ambitious and well rounded compared to the Indian kids who grow up in Singapore.

GIIS I assume? Don't know if any other Indian international school. In all honesty, I haven't heard the best things about it. It doesn't seem to be the most well endowed, whether in terms of teachers or campus resources. Still, I think it's a pretty safe back to say it would be better than what she might get an India. But maybe I don't know enough about the education system there.

No offense, but that's quite an ignorant statement. GIIS has just one single "advantage" over top schools in tier 1 cities in India - that it is located in a developed country vs a not so developed one.

My intention wasn't to offend, but as you said, GIIS offers an advantage. Even if it's a "single advantage", an advantage is an advantage. I just said advantage way too many times

[Lisafuller]

I will not try to break your bubble, but whole world is globalized now. India is a huge country but we belong to the top 1% there who live and work in big cities and they are as globalized, even more than Singapore.

So what brings you here? The doors are always open.

Whether to go through that door is the point of all this discussion.

WD40, whatever it is you decide, good luck. As for me, I will stay here while I and my wife are both employed. If that changes, then we will make that decision. But we are prepared for plan B too which is to go back home.

I hope that if that time does come, it'll be under good circumstances for you and your family. Until then, just enjoy your time here and ride the wave.

[Wd40]

Well, though I dare say I had a good thing going for myself in the US, I personally have always seen the merit in being here, which is why I made the move and am still here decades later. If you are so confident in the quality of life you'll enjoy in India (entirely valid), then it's your call.

The difference is you have a PR/citizenship. SG is a nanny state. Takes very good care of its citizens as if they were their own children. But foreigners are like step children here.

India has poor quality of life. But it is a good place for kids to learn and grow Vs Singapore. It prepares you for the big bad world. Growing up as foreigner kids in Singapore is a lose lose, the kids don't learn any skills required in the real world plus after they are 18, Singapore pretty much closes itself to the foreigner kids. Hence my concern.

[jalanjalan]

The only good thing about Singapore is that it is a sterile place, where women can roam totally carelessly without fear of getting molested and this isnt the case with India. In India you need to watch your back. But I think that is normal in most countries, you cannot be as careless as you can be in Singapore.

Hm, I wouldn't quite go that far - the old saying "low crime doesn't mean no crime" holds true. Women have to watch their backs pretty much everywhere and weigh the risks. As a young woman, I did get some unwanted attention, which evaporated like magic as soon as my husband showed up.
What I like about Singapore is, as an older person, you can feel pretty safe. There seems to be a strong taboo against messing with old uncles and aunties.

[PNGMK]

One thing that Malcontent mentioned which applies to you too - getting complacent in Singapore. I have seen that a few times. It's bad for your long term career and life goals. I would move back. I like India and have considered moving there as a foreigner. It really is an amazing country with it's own set of great opportunities.