Considering leaving Singapore

[Wd40]

Hello guys,

I am finally considering of leaving Singapore. My rental agreement expires end of September. I have been paying like 2300 per month in rent. My landlord initially agreed to renew at 3k. I contacted the landlord directly and bypassed the landlord's agent. But I think the agent contacted the landlord and somehow convinced him that my house could easily fetch over 3.5k.

This is more like a straw that breaks the camels back. It is not like another $500 is going to be a deal breaker. But I dont see the point, renting a stupid HDB and living a substandard life here with no path to PR or residency. I would rather move to India now and get used to it than continue staying here like this. My current rent is 2300, so I was able to save significantly good amount of money. But now I have already made enough for now and money is no longer a motivator.

[NYY1]

Sorry to hear, an unfortunate situation. Have you been able to sort out the pass renewal yet (salary thresholds)? Or is this just another kick in the groin (notwithstanding its limited practical impact)?

I probably cannot fully appreciate all of the emotions, but I do believe people generally work hard and tolerate things if they see a better tomorrow. When something is a dead end with no hope, interest is lost.

That being said, from a non-emotional standpoint I would suggest the following. If your job is easy going and you can still save some money here, I would play out the option a bit further. If you don't need to save, spend a little bit more and enjoy a few more things while you are here. I think cutting bait to try for the UK, Australia, Canada is one thing. If just returning home without improving the immigration situation for the next generation, spend time thinking about what educational route gives your daughter the best chance for whatever it is you want (probably uni and job in one of the countries mentioned above?). If that is India, pull the cord. If unsure, extend the lease, get a favourable diplomatic clause, and see what happens. Things change (even if low probability) and closing up shop is probably something that can't be undone. In this case, try to make a decision when the emotions aren't so high.

Good luck and regards.

[malcontent]

Hello guys,

I am finally considering of leaving Singapore. My rental agreement expires end of September. I have been paying like 2300 per month in rent. My landlord initially agreed to renew at 3k. I contacted the landlord directly and bypassed the landlord's agent. But I think the agent contacted the landlord and somehow convinced him that my house could easily fetch over 3.5k.

This is more like a straw that breaks the camels back. It is not like another $500 is going to be a deal breaker. But I dont see the point, renting a stupid HDB and living a substandard life here with no path to PR or residency. I would rather move to India now and get used to it than continue staying here like this. My current rent is 2300, so I was able to save significantly good amount of money. But now I have already made enough for now and money is no longer a motivator.

I highly recommend it. A good friend of mine moved back to India after around 10 years in Singapore, even though he got PR for himself and his family. Instead of moving back to his home state of Kerala, he moved to Mumbai, closer to his wife’s family. He had always wanted to move back, and what finally convinced him was a job offer by a multinational that matched his Singapore salary in India. A few years after he moved back I met him again, he was visiting Singapore for a family vacation and also to renounce and collect his CPF. Later he quit working and started his own business in India, something he had always dreamt about. I haven’t checked in on him for over a decade, but I’m sure he is doing great and has no regrets — he is not the type to settle for anything less.

The problem with a lot of people who stay too long in Singapore is they tend to get complacent, and it is not healthy. It’s not easy to uproot yourself and venture forth after such a long time, but it is worthwhile to broaden your experiences and find new opportunities.

[Lisafuller]

Hello guys,

I am finally considering of leaving Singapore. My rental agreement expires end of September. I have been paying like 2300 per month in rent. My landlord initially agreed to renew at 3k. I contacted the landlord directly and bypassed the landlord's agent. But I think the agent contacted the landlord and somehow convinced him that my house could easily fetch over 3.5k.

This is more like a straw that breaks the camels back. It is not like another $500 is going to be a deal breaker. But I dont see the point, renting a stupid HDB and living a substandard life here with no path to PR or residency. I would rather move to India now and get used to it than continue staying here like this. My current rent is 2300, so I was able to save significantly good amount of money. But now I have already made enough for now and money is no longer a motivator.

What do your kids think?

[Lisafuller]

Hello guys,

I am finally considering of leaving Singapore. My rental agreement expires end of September. I have been paying like 2300 per month in rent. My landlord initially agreed to renew at 3k. I contacted the landlord directly and bypassed the landlord's agent. But I think the agent contacted the landlord and somehow convinced him that my house could easily fetch over 3.5k.

This is more like a straw that breaks the camels back. It is not like another $500 is going to be a deal breaker. But I dont see the point, renting a stupid HDB and living a substandard life here with no path to PR or residency. I would rather move to India now and get used to it than continue staying here like this. My current rent is 2300, so I was able to save significantly good amount of money. But now I have already made enough for now and money is no longer a motivator.

I highly recommend it. A good friend of mine moved back to India after around 10 years in Singapore, even though he got PR for himself and his family. Instead of moving back to his home state of Kerala, he moved to Mumbai, closer to his wife’s family. He had always wanted to move back, and what finally convinced him was a job offer by a multinational that matched his Singapore salary in India. A few years after he moved back I met him again, he was visiting Singapore for a family vacation and also to renounce and collect his CPF. Later he quit working and started his own business in India, something he had always dreamt about. I haven’t checked in on him for over a decade, but I’m sure he is doing great and has no regrets — he is not the type to settle for anything less.

The problem with a lot of people who stay too long in Singapore is they tend to get complacent, and it is not healthy. It’s not easy to uproot yourself and venture forth after such a long time, but it is worthwhile to broaden your experiences and find new opportunities.

Your friend is one of the lucky ones. A big concern for me as a parent would be how the move would impact my child. It is undeniable that a childhood in India would be vastly different from that in Singapore.

[malcontent]

Hello guys,

I am finally considering of leaving Singapore. My rental agreement expires end of September. I have been paying like 2300 per month in rent. My landlord initially agreed to renew at 3k. I contacted the landlord directly and bypassed the landlord's agent. But I think the agent contacted the landlord and somehow convinced him that my house could easily fetch over 3.5k.

This is more like a straw that breaks the camels back. It is not like another $500 is going to be a deal breaker. But I dont see the point, renting a stupid HDB and living a substandard life here with no path to PR or residency. I would rather move to India now and get used to it than continue staying here like this. My current rent is 2300, so I was able to save significantly good amount of money. But now I have already made enough for now and money is no longer a motivator.

I highly recommend it. A good friend of mine moved back to India after around 10 years in Singapore, even though he got PR for himself and his family. Instead of moving back to his home state of Kerala, he moved to Mumbai, closer to his wife’s family. He had always wanted to move back, and what finally convinced him was a job offer by a multinational that matched his Singapore salary in India. A few years after he moved back I met him again, he was visiting Singapore for a family vacation and also to renounce and collect his CPF. Later he quit working and started his own business in India, something he had always dreamt about. I haven’t checked in on him for over a decade, but I’m sure he is doing great and has no regrets — he is not the type to settle for anything less.

The problem with a lot of people who stay too long in Singapore is they tend to get complacent, and it is not healthy. It’s not easy to uproot yourself and venture forth after such a long time, but it is worthwhile to broaden your experiences and find new opportunities.

Your friend is one of the lucky ones. A big concern for me as a parent would be how the move would impact my child. It is undeniable that a childhood in India would be vastly different from that in Singapore.

I knew this guy really well, including his wife and child - we even took vacations together. I’d almost say this guy made his own luck in many ways. He was driven, knew what he wanted and wasn’t afraid to go for it… smart, but also well rounded. He could have done well in Singapore and probably would have been invited to become a citizen like another Indian friend of mine.

But, he had the foresight to know… as an aspiring entrepreneur, his best prospects here would be a corporate stiff getting paid 5 figures monthly. His wife was through an arranged marriage and he chose extremely well — she was good looking but not too much so, super down to earth and genuine, an architect by training but the ideal housewife as well — which was good, because her career prospects in Singapore were not compelling… In her words, architecture is not appreciated here.

[smoulder]

I agree with Lisa. The biggest concern would be how your daughter would take the move given that she's spent most of her life here.

I know we discussed this before - you mentioned that she's spent a lot of time with cousins back in India. However, I still maintain that there is a difference between vacation and living in a place. Maybe, your daughter can adjust well, but what if she cannot?

[NYY1]

At the same time, kids tend to be more adaptable than we think (or than adults are in general). I know a lot of people that value immigration rights or where they are trying to get the kid to, so I tend to respond in that manner.

However, there are always ways and opportunities everywhere, so the only problem that exists is when you've convinced yourself that the world is ending if you don't get XYZ. Sometimes, you go where you go (school, job, country, etc) and it ends up working out better than what you had originally planned for (often, these are the stereotypical routes valued by society, not necessarily you).

[Wd40]

There are 2 approaches I can take:
1) Dont rock the apple cart/dont fix something that is not broken: This has been my default strategy and has worked well for me.

2) Dont wait until something breaks: This is more of a hypothetical; not sure what breaks really means, but the longer my daughter and wife stay here the more they get used to a place where their residency rights are tied to my job and visa. The more difficult it is going to be going back. So if we continue to stay here then I better prepare to stay for atleast another 5-6 years until my daughter starts undergrad and then I can decide where she will do it, but this may not be entirely in my control.

My original post was made in a state of mind when I was really frustrated. But after couple of days of thinking over it I am back to the approach 1 again

[Lisafuller]

I highly recommend it. A good friend of mine moved back to India after around 10 years in Singapore, even though he got PR for himself and his family. Instead of moving back to his home state of Kerala, he moved to Mumbai, closer to his wife’s family. He had always wanted to move back, and what finally convinced him was a job offer by a multinational that matched his Singapore salary in India. A few years after he moved back I met him again, he was visiting Singapore for a family vacation and also to renounce and collect his CPF. Later he quit working and started his own business in India, something he had always dreamt about. I haven’t checked in on him for over a decade, but I’m sure he is doing great and has no regrets — he is not the type to settle for anything less.

The problem with a lot of people who stay too long in Singapore is they tend to get complacent, and it is not healthy. It’s not easy to uproot yourself and venture forth after such a long time, but it is worthwhile to broaden your experiences and find new opportunities.

Your friend is one of the lucky ones. A big concern for me as a parent would be how the move would impact my child. It is undeniable that a childhood in India would be vastly different from that in Singapore.

I knew this guy really well, including his wife and child - we even took vacations together. I’d almost say this guy made his own luck in many ways. He was driven, knew what he wanted and wasn’t afraid to go for it… smart, but also well rounded. He could have done well in Singapore and probably would have been invited to become a citizen like another Indian friend of mine.

But, he had the foresight to know… as an aspiring entrepreneur, his best prospects here would be a corporate stiff getting paid 5 figures monthly. His wife was through an arranged marriage and he chose extremely well — she was good looking but not too much so, super down to earth and genuine, an architect by training but the ideal housewife as well — which was good, because her career prospects in Singapore were not compelling… In her words, architecture is not appreciated here.

Must agree with you. We make our own luck.

And yes, architecture really isn't appreciated here. I say it's because of the lack of land, our buildings have to be more practical than anything so they all end up looking the same in order to maximize utility. Compare this with places like the US that have an abundance of land, which allows for more experimentation and artistic designs.

[Lisafuller]

I agree with Lisa. The biggest concern would be how your daughter would take the move given that she's spent most of her life here.

I know we discussed this before - you mentioned that she's spent a lot of time with cousins back in India. However, I still maintain that there is a difference between vacation and living in a place. Maybe, your daughter can adjust well, but what if she cannot?

Absolutely. Vacationing somewhere is not the same as living there, especially for a child. It's easy for children to associate their vacation destination with only happy memories of playing and relaxing, but life will look a lot different if they actually live there.

[Lisafuller]

At the same time, kids tend to be more adaptable than we think (or than adults are in general). I know a lot of people that value immigration rights or where they are trying to get the kid to, so I tend to respond in that manner.

However, there are always ways and opportunities everywhere, so the only problem that exists is when you've convinced yourself that the world is ending if you don't get XYZ. Sometimes, you go where you go (school, job, country, etc) and it ends up working out better than what you had originally planned for (often, these are the stereotypical routes valued by society, not necessarily you).

That is true, but at the same time, even if the kid is able to adapt, little can be done about their environment, in other words, the kids around them. Will they be accepting or exclusive? It's a tossup.

A friend of mine has lived in China for the last five or so years with her husband and young son. Their daughter, a friend of my girl, is in NUS. Husband had to relocate for work, so family followed along. In a couple weeks, the wife and son will be returning to singapore as the son was badly bullied, in spite of the fact that he went to an International School where the environment was closer to what he was used to in Singapore. It's also worth noting that he is a Chinese National, so there's no chance that he was bullied for being unable to speak the language.

[Lisafuller]

There are 2 approaches I can take:
1) Dont rock the apple cart/dont fix something that is not broken: This has been my default strategy and has worked well for me.

2) Dont wait until something breaks: This is more of a hypothetical; not sure what breaks really means, but the longer my daughter and wife stay here the more they get used to a place where their residency rights are tied to my job and visa. The more difficult it is going to be going back. So if we continue to stay here then I better prepare to stay for atleast another 5-6 years until my daughter starts undergrad and then I can decide where she will do it, but this may not be entirely in my control.

My original post was made in a state of mind when I was really frustrated. But after couple of days of thinking over it I am back to the approach 1 again

It's completely possible that in a couple years, your feeling of wanting to return to India will only intensify. At the same time, I think it's a move that should be taken cautiously. How old is your daughter now? You may want to consider moving only when she has finished her education here, and is able to live on her own in say, college.

[Wd40]

I agree with Lisa. The biggest concern would be how your daughter would take the move given that she's spent most of her life here.

I know we discussed this before - you mentioned that she's spent a lot of time with cousins back in India. However, I still maintain that there is a difference between vacation and living in a place. Maybe, your daughter can adjust well, but what if she cannot?

Absolutely. Vacationing somewhere is not the same as living there, especially for a child. It's easy for children to associate their vacation destination with only happy memories of playing and relaxing, but life will look a lot different if they actually live there.

The problem is with no rights to live here, if I lose my job, we are actually on a long term vacation in Singapore. We are kind of like nomads here, with no connections with anybody. Singapore is a bit like an airport terminal where you meet people for a short duration and then they move on to their next flight. The problem for kids is they mistake this long term vacation as if this was their home. The longer they stay here the harder it gets to get out of here. Also imagine the child spends like 18-20 years over here but then she has to leave the country and move somewhere else, but then what is her identity of home? She cannot even come back here except on a tourist visa and then if she comes back also there is nobody here for her to relate to. So she also leads a nomad life like us.

I guess, this is the curse of an expats life.

[Lisafuller]

I agree with Lisa. The biggest concern would be how your daughter would take the move given that she's spent most of her life here.

I know we discussed this before - you mentioned that she's spent a lot of time with cousins back in India. However, I still maintain that there is a difference between vacation and living in a place. Maybe, your daughter can adjust well, but what if she cannot?

Absolutely. Vacationing somewhere is not the same as living there, especially for a child. It's easy for children to associate their vacation destination with only happy memories of playing and relaxing, but life will look a lot different if they actually live there.

The problem is with no rights to live here, if I lose my job, we are actually on a long term vacation in Singapore. We are kind of like nomads here, with no connections with anybody. Singapore is a bit like an airport terminal where you meet people for a short duration and then they move on to their next flight. The problem for kids is they mistake this long term vacation as if this was their home. The longer they stay here the harder it gets to get out of here. Also imagine the child spends like 18-20 years over here but then she has to leave the country and move somewhere else, but then what is her identity of home? She cannot even come back here except on a tourist visa and then if she comes back also there is nobody here for her to relate to. So she also leads a nomad life like us.

I guess, this is the curse of an expats life.

Very valid. I guess you really have to ask yourself if the uncertainty is worth the pleasure of living here. From your other posts, it seems you've done very well for yourself financially, so obviously you'd live a kings life in India, but your daughter is presumably doing very well here socially, and receiving the best education she possibly could. So which is more important?