Which local schools for excellent English/communication skills?

[malcontent]

Yep, its liddat.

[Edge007]

Impossible. Your kids will still develop the Singlish accent even if they attend the top local schools. The English spoken in these schools may be better than most other local schools, but its still Singlish.

I know this from personal experience.

Kids learn from and emulate their peers. Your kids would feel odd speaking with a Brit accent while their local peers speak better / bad Singlish. If the accent is an issue for you, send them to International School with more British / Aussie peers.

Exactly. Top local school or not, its still Singlish.

Top local school = Better Singlish
Regular local school = Really bad Singlish
But its still singlish.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar ... its-vs-its

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/its-vs-its/

Im typing from a mobile phone. No one cares about grammar on social media, its just a casual forum.

[malcontent]

Don’t feel bad, I’m so dyslexic, I had visually transposed the i & t, so when I first saw those links I thought they were dirty

[NYY1]

Im typing from a mobile phone. No one cares about grammar on social media, its just a casual forum.

Sure, go ahead and make whatever excuses/justifications you need to. For someone that wants to critique others' English, one would think he/she could at least get it correct.

BTW, Singlish is often a casual or informal way of communicating as well. Yet, it appears many here believe that is the only way local students know how to communicate.

There are certainly differences in household structure, curriculum, and typical practices that influence a student's English. Nevertheless, the mind tends to overgeneralize and see oneself in a more favourable view than warranted. Hence, there's a good chance that not all local students' English is as bad as you portray. Further, perhaps not all native or "correct/proper" English speakers' English is as superior as they think it is. In some cases, the former may even be better than the latter, but I know everyone here will assume that's impossible.

[NYY1]

I know, it is social media and a casual forum. At least these were not in a thread about English!

While we often think and respond quickly in informal settings, the mind must still choose one or the other? Are we predisposed to pick the wrong one? I wonder if I just pick one of its or it's randomly, how often will I be correct? Alternatively, I could use the autocomplete function, which I'd assume is pretty good these days. Guess is that either of those methods will outperform what has been displayed in this thread.

But we should all ignore our own errors and assume others' errors are all about them/inferior ability.

Yes, as you have pointed out, it appears parents are voting ICS as number 1. I have a feeling this is because the school allows parental participation, combined with the Christian curriculum where kids learn timeless values and how to build character.

It's possible that most parents don't send their kids to ICS only because of it's small size. I myself have a slight prejudice towards smaller schools. However, in light of the "woke" madness going on at SAS and considering how Stamford International American School (SIAS) is a for-profit school, ICS is the only one option left that is available.

Thank you so much for sharing. I will pay ICS a visit and check out which universities their graduates matriculate into.

Adults encouraging kids to question their gender identity and telling kids its OK to have sex is evil.

You're knee deep in this so obviously you can't you see that.

Tell us - What do you gain from putting up sexually explicit books in libraries?

[Addadude]

I know, it is social media and a casual forum. At least these were not in a thread about English!

While we often think and respond quickly in informal settings, the mind must still choose one or the other? Are we predisposed to pick the wrong one? I wonder if I just pick one of its or it's randomly, how often will I be correct? Alternatively, I could use the autocomplete function, which I'd assume is pretty good these days. Guess is that either of those methods will outperform what has been displayed in this thread.

But we should all ignore our own errors and assume others' errors are all about them/inferior ability.

I suspect Edge007 is the same person as DavidC1 and ADFuller in the thread you are quoting from. Putting aside grammar, all three write in a similar style and demonstrate the same inability to parse information correctly as well as using the same tactic of making false inferences from other people's statements. Bearing this in mind, I'm not sure there is any point in debating them other than for personal entertainment.

[NYY1]

I suspect Edge007 is the same person as DavidC1 and ADFuller in the thread you are quoting from. Putting aside grammar, all three write in a similar style and demonstrate the same inability to parse information correctly as well as using the same tactic of making false inferences from other people's statements. Bearing this in mind, I'm not sure there is any point in debating them other than for personal entertainment.

Yes, I found it amusing. Anyways, some of the criticisms of the local schools have their merits; no system is perfect. And I certainly don't think one is better than the other for everyone or that people should put their kids here or there.

My gripe is when people assume generalizations apply to everyone. Local kids (and residents) are observed in their natural setting. Has anyone thought to consider how these people will behave elsewhere? Perhaps find the kids (or residents) that went to Oxbridge, HYPS, etc and observe them in the native English-speaking countries (academic or professional setting). I'd bet few have actually done that.

There is also perfect native English and what is sufficient to be understood by others. Critical reading and thinking are often just as important. Many examples of kids that went to schools beyond the upper rung listed above and did just fine (school and work).

Nevertheless, some parents may prefer better English (or English that resonates with them) and that is fine, but I don't think that means everyone is incapable.

[Lisafuller]

Dear all, I tried looking for this online, but couldn’t find any straightforward answers. Could someone please advise on what local schools I can consider for my kids if speaking in non-accented and grammatically correct English is the most important criterion for my partner and me? I understand my kids will eventually pick up Singlish (which I don’t mind), but when they do codeswitch to English, I want them to speak perfect English and without any accents. Do you think that would be possible if I send them to a local school? If so, which schools should I consider to best enable this? Thank you!

Impossible. Your kids will still develop the Singlish accent even if they attend the top local schools. The English spoken in these schools may be better than most other local schools, but its still Singlish.

I know this from personal experience.

Kids learn from and emulate their peers. Your kids would feel odd speaking with a Brit accent while their local peers speak better / bad Singlish. If the accent is an issue for you, send them to International School with more British / Aussie peers.

I must disagree. My daughter studied in local schools from P1 all the way through J2. While she did pick up local slang, she has held onto her American accent, and when speaking, is indistinguishable from any other American. The key is to keep them speaking proper English at home.

[Lisafuller]

Yup totally impossible. In local schools, almost everyone speaks Singlish (our la, hor, meh, mah, can meh, cannot ah). That's how it is with local schools, oh ya and learning to swear when they go on higher levels.

And the curses are incredibly creative. Nothing as graphic as Hokkien and canto curse words.

[Lisafuller]

Don’t feel bad, I’m so dyslexic, I had visually transposed the i & t, so when I first saw those links I thought they were dirty

LOL

[Lisafuller]

I suspect Edge007 is the same person as DavidC1 and ADFuller in the thread you are quoting from. Putting aside grammar, all three write in a similar style and demonstrate the same inability to parse information correctly as well as using the same tactic of making false inferences from other people's statements. Bearing this in mind, I'm not sure there is any point in debating them other than for personal entertainment.

Yes, I found it amusing. Anyways, some of the criticisms of the local schools have their merits; no system is perfect. And I certainly don't think one is better than the other for everyone or that people should put their kids here or there.

My gripe is when people assume generalizations apply to everyone. Local kids (and residents) are observed in their natural setting. Has anyone thought to consider how these people will behave elsewhere? Perhaps find the kids (or residents) that went to Oxbridge, HYPS, etc and observe them in the native English-speaking countries (academic or professional setting). I'd bet few have actually done that.

There is also perfect native English and what is sufficient to be understood by others. Critical reading and thinking are often just as important. Many examples of kids that went to schools beyond the upper rung listed above and did just fine (school and work).

Nevertheless, some parents may prefer better English (or English that resonates with them) and that is fine, but I don't think that means everyone is incapable.

I have been in these settings, as has my daughter. My experience has been that there is a definite distinction between Singaporean kids and American kids, both in vocabulary and grammar. That said, Singaporean children tend to be well able to hold their own in conversation, and the differences are not necessarily negative. They are just differences that are natural results of growing up somewhere completely different.

[malcontent]

Since I have one child that has completed the local system and another that has gone through SAS, I can confirm that the standard of English between my two kids is substantially different. This is evident in terms of breadth of vocabulary, word choices, grammatical structure and pronunciation.

There are also certain speech impediments that are endemic to local speakers. One example: any word starting with the th sound will be pronounced with a t sound… so a word like three becomes tree. My daughter starting doing this after only a few short years in local school, and despite my efforts to persuade her otherwise, she eventually told me: everyone else speaks like that, why do I need to say it differently, and besides, I want them to understand me.

I told her that she also needs to be understood by her grandparents (who have only ever been able to understand about half of what she is saying) and other people outside Singapore. But alas, she doesn’t speak to them on a regular basis, so it has never been a priority. By contrast, the grandparents understand my son just fine, so to me this is a good test, since I am too close to the problem and may not always see it.

Does that mean my daughter has some technical deficiencies? Generally no, although she misreads situations sometimes, this is partly cultural. She scored fairly well on the English section of the SAT, among the highest percentile of all test takers. Not as high as the Math section, but a highly respectable score nonetheless.

Overall, I would say there is a compromise that has to be made if choosing local school. For some people, this might not even feel like a compromise because they don’t know what they don’t know… so it all depends on where you are coming from, what you expect, and where your priorities are.

[NYY1]

Despite stereotypes and generalizations, there are Western (USA, UK) kids that are better than local kids at math. Not only on average, but also at the extreme right side of the distribution. Some parents in those countries didn't sit still and let the system drag their kid along. Think the math in your child's school isn't sufficient? Teach it to the child yourself. You tried to tell the kid math was important, but he/she wouldn't listen? This is like a coach that blames his/her players rather than coming up with a message that does get through.

No doubt, environments matter; school and household (and not all households within a country, any country, are the same). Innate ability and what you do to enhance your ability also matter. How many kids read 30-50 books per year and read Western media nearly every day? It will probably help their vocabulary and grammar.

Yet, I'm sure many here will say there is not one person in the history of the Singapore education system that has better English than they do or if X affected them, it must apply to every other person too.

Lastly, beware of self-fulling prophecies. The system is bad at X, the system is bad at X --> now I am bad at X. It's a lot easier to make external attributions than look at what else one could have done to overcome it.

Anyways, I think everyone gets the differences on average, and most people that need to make a decision about what school system is best for their child won't be swayed either way (no problems with that). There are certainly good perspectives and considerations in some of the posts above.

[malcontent]

I will just add, too, that every child is different. I know a girl about the same age as my daughter - dad is a Brit and mom is local. She went through the local system all the way, same as my daughter. However, I have heard this girl give a short speech and she had the ability to switch between local and international (I’d call it an American influenced British accent). That is great if your child can do that, but not everyone can. My daughter tries, but can only adapt a little and she doesn’t like to. Her best attempt at a non-local accent is a sort of a Midwest twang that she got from me, but it’s like being a fish out of water.

She just turned 19 and will be starting college in the US this September, which I hope will help her become more adaptable, which is not her strong suit. At least it will expose her to a totally new world, and she stands to expand — not only linguistically, but culturally, which will serve her well, no matter what part of the world she ends up in.

[Edge007]

Says the gay guy ( Addadude) who supports LGBTQ curriculum in schools and sexually charged books in school libraries for young children. Back off and indoctrinate your own kids, not other people's kids.