Which local schools for excellent English/communication skills?

[digitalfruits18]

Dear all, I tried looking for this online, but couldn’t find any straightforward answers. Could someone please advise on what local schools I can consider for my kids if speaking in non-accented and grammatically correct English is the most important criterion for my partner and me? I understand my kids will eventually pick up Singlish (which I don’t mind), but when they do codeswitch to English, I want them to speak perfect English and without any accents. Do you think that would be possible if I send them to a local school? If so, which schools should I consider to best enable this? Thank you!

[sundaymorningstaple]

I don't know of any school in the world where you could send you kids to school and have them learn English without any accents. Frankly, It's impossible as the English language is a composite language made up of all English speaking countries. Hell, even in the US the English pronunciation you will learn will be according to the part of the country you live in. My kids went through the local school system from K1 till they finished. Both speak Singlish with a local accent, but both speak proper (perfect if there is such a thing) English but not the "queens" English but the most prevalent English spoken today which is American English. But even that has different accents if you are from the North or South or West of the US. It's all proper English but the accent will change. Accent is not the same as dialectic differences although we have that as well as do the British depending on where they are from. The average Brit has a hard time understanding a Scouse for example.

Heck, I bet neither you or your spouse speak English without an accent. (You may think you have a neutral accent but it is dependent on you you are talking to.) There is NO criteria for English 'accent'. You are hunting for a figment of your imagination. Just make sure you speak to them in the manner in which you want them to learn. They will learn. Mine did without any problem. As well, they also speak some Malay, are fluent in Mandarin and understand Tamil but do not speak it even though they grew up with it in the house as we never encouraged it.

[Lisafuller]

Dear all, I tried looking for this online, but couldn’t find any straightforward answers. Could someone please advise on what local schools I can consider for my kids if speaking in non-accented and grammatically correct English is the most important criterion for my partner and me? I understand my kids will eventually pick up Singlish (which I don’t mind), but when they do codeswitch to English, I want them to speak perfect English and without any accents. Do you think that would be possible if I send them to a local school? If so, which schools should I consider to best enable this? Thank you!

In all honesty, this is practically impossible. This is Singapore, which means that the kids naturally speak with a local (Singaporean!) accent. It is unavoidable. Frankly, as parents we have very little control over what accent our kids will eventually adopt, even if you were to try and "make sure" your kid has an American accent, for example, by sending him to an International School, you may find that he ends up adopting a neutral British/American accent instead as that is how kids and teachers in International Schools speak (it is the middle ground of all international accents). Your child will almost definitely pick up the accent that is used by a majority of his peers in the school.

That being said, the accent your child picks up has a lot to do with who he is around, and there are certain schools in which students are exposed to more formal English at home, and in the classroom. I think I'm being quite clear here, but if you need names, you may want to look at Raffles, ACS, and a Hwa Chong. Basically any school that routinely ranks in the top. But let's be clear, you don't just get to send your child to these schools. He will need top scores to get in.

[Lisafuller]

I don't know of any school in the world where you could send you kids to school and have them learn English without any accents. Frankly, It's impossible as the English language is a composite language made up of all English speaking countries. Hell, even in the US the English pronunciation you will learn will be according to the part of the country you live in. My kids went through the local school system from K1 till they finished. Both speak Singlish with a local accent, but both speak proper (perfect if there is such a thing) English but not the "queens" English but the most prevalent English spoken today which is American English. But even that has different accents if you are from the North or South or West of the US. It's all proper English but the accent will change. Accent is not the same as dialectic differences although we have that as well as do the British depending on where they are from. The average Brit has a hard time understanding a Scouse for example.

Heck, I bet neither you or your spouse speak English without an accent. (You may think you have a neutral accent but it is dependent on you you are talking to.) There is NO criteria for English 'accent'. You are hunting for a figment of your imagination. Just make sure you speak to them in the manner in which you want them to learn. They will learn. Mine did with any problem. As well, they also speak some Malay, are fluent in Mandarin and understand Tamil but do not speak it even though they grew up with it in the house as we never encouraged it.

Is there a reason you weren't keen on your children speaking Tamil?

And yes, I completely agree. There is no such thing as a neutral, English accent. Many might be inclined to say that the standard is an American accent, but what is an American accent? The differences are vast, depending on which region the speaker is from. Similarly, as you pointed out, if one were to say that the British accent is the standard, there is a huge range of accents one might be referring to.

[NYY1]

Are you talking about primary or secondary level? For the former, as a PR you don't have all of the choices, but it really doesn't matter that much (the base curriculum is the same). As alluded to above, there may be somewhat of a difference in peers. Nevertheless, this can be overcome if the child is focused on the right things (there are many local students here that speak proper English when the setting calls for it, yet their parents speak nothing short of terrible English and the kids were only taught English in school). I think make sure the kid reads a wide variety of materials from a young age, and practices writing (not necessarily the school syllabus stuff but writing for fun or to recap/express their thoughts). Language skills are built up over many years, and are harder to cram/tuition for vs things like math/science (usually one correct answer). Often, kids spend too much time studying for the latter while neglecting the former (harder to study for/it is a slow moving process vs. seeing marks go up in the other subjects), irrespective of whether they want to be a math/science person.

Lastly, the linguistically capable kids can handle multiple languages and switch between them with ease (I will also say there is a difference between reasonably fluent and very very good in all languages). On the other hand, many people have a dominant language that they consume the vast majority of their info in and conduct their thoughts in. For these people, trying to speak multiple languages may hurt, as you end up mixing a bunch of stuff together. I think the home structure (dominant language of parents, desire to preserve/pass down cultural identity) can both aide and hinder kids' (first/dominant) language development, depending on the circumstances. Of course, the home structure is what it is, so just try to understand where the kid is at (how brain works, ability, etc) and make the best decision you can from there.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Is there a reason you weren't keen on your children speaking Tamil?

And yes, I completely agree. There is no such thing as a neutral, English accent. Many might be inclined to say that the standard is an American accent, but what is an American accent? The differences are vast, depending on which region the speaker is from. Similarly, as you pointed out, if one were to say that the British accent is the standard, there is a huge range of accents one might be referring to.

From a practical point of view, it just didn't make sense at the time (and still doesn't). It's good that they can have a decent understanding of Tamil, but on a world stage Hindi would be the best, but frankly, to give a pair of kids the best chance (as dual citizens half S Asian half Caucasian with Sg & US passports (they've since made their choices I guess - I don't know & don't ask) and had they opted for the US then by being totally non-Chinese and being fluent in both English & Mandarin if either wanted to go into International Business from the US, they'd be ideally suited for operations between Asia & the US. They have a benefit most don't have an Tamil and Malay on the world stage is virtually useless. Had they wanted to speak Tamil, we've never had any qualms about that but we never tried to push it as they had a hard enough time learning Mandarin without anybody speaking it in our household or extended family. Most Local Tamils also speak English so there isn't much of a handicap (but my daughter is picking up Malayalam from her husband as a lot of it is similar to Tamil).

[NYY1]

From a practical point of view, it just didn't make sense at the time (and still doesn't). It's good that they can have a decent understanding of Tamil, but on a world stage Hindi would be the best, but frankly, to give a pair of kids the best chance (as dual citizens half S Asian half Caucasian with Sg & US passports (they've since made their choices I guess - I don't know & don't ask) and had they opted for the US then by being totally non-Chinese and being fluent in both English & Mandarin if either wanted to go into International Business from the US, they'd be ideally suited for operations between Asia & the US. They have a benefit most don't have an Tamil and Malay on the world stage is virtually useless. Had they wanted to speak Tamil, we've never had any qualms about that but we never tried to push it as they had a hard enough time learning Mandarin without anybody speaking it in our household or extended family. Most Local Tamils also speak English so there isn't much of a handicap (but my daughter is picking up Malayalam from her husband as a lot of it is similar to Tamil).

What MT do your grandkids take or are they not of school age yet? You mentioned how your kids didn't fit in MOE's box as to what MT to take, and since the policy has become more flexible for mixed race kids (can follow either parent's MT and most take CL for the reasons you mention). Nevertheless, I am not sure if a SC child that would normally be assigned a certain MT can take whatever MT he or she likes these days (also not 100% sure whether this would apply to your grandkids). As I'm sure you know, the policy itself was not rooted in "commercial" value, but a meeting in 1972 and subsequent reforms/negotiations made this policy a gift to most of the kids educated here. All of these events are kind of interesting when you look at where the world is today.

[sundaymorningstaple]

From a practical point of view, it just didn't make sense at the time (and still doesn't). It's good that they can have a decent understanding of Tamil, but on a world stage Hindi would be the best, but frankly, to give a pair of kids the best chance (as dual citizens half S Asian half Caucasian with Sg & US passports (they've since made their choices I guess - I don't know & don't ask) and had they opted for the US then by being totally non-Chinese and being fluent in both English & Mandarin if either wanted to go into International Business from the US, they'd be ideally suited for operations between Asia & the US. They have a benefit most don't have an Tamil and Malay on the world stage is virtually useless. Had they wanted to speak Tamil, we've never had any qualms about that but we never tried to push it as they had a hard enough time learning Mandarin without anybody speaking it in our household or extended family. Most Local Tamils also speak English so there isn't much of a handicap (but my daughter is picking up Malayalam from her husband as a lot of it is similar to Tamil).

What MT do your grandkids take or are they not of school age yet? You mentioned how your kids didn't fit in MOE's box as to what MT to take, and since the policy has become more flexible for mixed race kids (can follow either parent's MT and most take CL for the reasons you mention). Nevertheless, I am not sure if a SC child that would normally be assigned a certain MT can take whatever MT he or she likes these days (also not 100% sure whether this would apply to your grandkids). As I'm sure you know, the policy itself was not rooted in "commercial" value, but a meeting in 1972 and subsequent reforms/negotiations made this policy a gift to most of the kids educated here. All of these events are kind of interesting when you look at where the world is today.

Another juicy bit from my archives (in my head and paperwork in my filing cabinets here at home. My kids are now 33 & 38 (both born in the OLD KK Hospital) and the youngest (boy) long ago did his NS in the Navy, is now married and Wednesday at 2 minutes before noon gave me my forth grandchild (two girls now from my son's wife, and my eldest (daughter) has already given me 2 grandsons) When my daughter started P1 in CHIJ (Toa Payoh) back in the day, there were NO choices (I'm pretty sure you remember those times) she was born in 1984. I went to war with the MOE and after a 3 month running battle I set a precedence as my "Caucasian" daughter (remember back in the day when the child's race was purely determined by the father's race (the so-called "mother" tongue?)

Well, in addition to that according to the MOE at that time they were trying to make her take Tamil and eventually I won because they pwnd themselves. The rule back then was if you took English as you First language you had no choice but to take Mother Tongue as your second language, but if you took Mother Tongue as your First Language, then you had a choice of 2nd Language. Well, in 1984 My daughter was the first English Mother Tongue Language student they'd ever had and because the father was an American my mother tongue was English. (key in my argument-lots of Europeans are Caucasians as well). but speak a different language as a mother tongue. Sooooo by her taking English as Mother Tongue, she had a choice and we wanted Mandarin. I won. After than, when it was time for my son to go the same route, we'd already set the precedence and by then (5 years later) a fair number more had done the same so that is when the MOE started to relook the language situation. But I was actually instrumental as my daughter was the first. The eldest Grandchild, my daughter's son, is in Primary One at St. Andrews and is taking Mandarin as second language with English first language. As both of my kids are fluent in English and Mandarin, I think all the kids are going to follow suit. Only thing that really makes sense as there are only two major powers in the world. One speaking English the other Mandarin.

[NYY1]

Another juicy bit from my archives (in my head and paperwork in my filing cabinets here at home. My kids are now 33 & 38 (both born in the OLD KK Hospital) and the youngest (boy) long ago did his NS in the Navy, is now married and Wednesday at 2 minutes before noon gave me my forth grandchild (two girls now from my son's wife, and my eldest (daughter) has already given me 2 grandsons) When my daughter started P1 in CHIJ (Toa Payoh) back in the day, there were NO choices (I'm pretty sure you remember those times) she was born in 1984. I went to war with the MOE and after a 3 month running battle I set a precedence as my "Caucasian" daughter (remember back in the day when the child's race was purely determined by the father's race (the so-called "mother" tongue?)

Well, in addition to that according to the MOE at that time they were trying to make her take Tamil and eventually I won because they pwnd themselves. The rule back then was if you took English as you First language you had no choice but to take Mother Tongue as your second language, but if you took Mother Tongue as your First Language, then you had a choice of 2nd Language. Well, in 1984 My daughter was the first English Mother Tongue Language student they'd ever had and because the father was an American my mother tongue was English. (key in my argument-lots of Europeans are Caucasians as well). but speak a different language as a mother tongue. Sooooo by her taking English as Mother Tongue, she had a choice and we wanted Mandarin. I won. After than, when it was time for my son to go the same route, we'd already set the precedence and by then (5 years later) a fair number more had done the same so that is when the MOE started to relook the language situation. But I was actually instrumental as my daughter was the first. The eldest Grandchild, my daughter's son, is in Primary One at St. Andrews and is taking Mandarin as second language with English first language. As both of my kids are fluent in English and Mandarin, I think all the kids are going to follow suit. Only thing that really makes sense as there are only two major powers in the world. One speaking English the other Mandarin.

First off, congratulations to you and the others on the new addition to the family! Always something more important than some of the other topics here.

I guess it was a good bet to make at the time (or maybe it had some option value whereas the others had a lot less). Glad their kids are able to continue with it as well (given where we are today).

If you look at MOELC (Third Lang), they started with German, Japanese, and French, and based on the historical GDP tables that made sense. I still like L3 for the different cultural perspective it provides (not so much on the basic/mid-level language skills), but one has to ask whether it is better to just plow all of that time in to EL and CL. I.e. being very good at two is better than being reasonably good at three? Of course, some kids do very well in L3 (I think there is more inherent interest whereas sometimes MT gets turned into "another subject" and kids lose interest / they are only learning for exam purposes) and then have unique opportunities available to them. Other kids are just linguistically inclined and can pickup whatever you throw at them. Regardless, in the end internal interest trumps all...

[Lisafuller]

Is there a reason you weren't keen on your children speaking Tamil?

And yes, I completely agree. There is no such thing as a neutral, English accent. Many might be inclined to say that the standard is an American accent, but what is an American accent? The differences are vast, depending on which region the speaker is from. Similarly, as you pointed out, if one were to say that the British accent is the standard, there is a huge range of accents one might be referring to.

From a practical point of view, it just didn't make sense at the time (and still doesn't). It's good that they can have a decent understanding of Tamil, but on a world stage Hindi would be the best, but frankly, to give a pair of kids the best chance (as dual citizens half S Asian half Caucasian with Sg & US passports (they've since made their choices I guess - I don't know & don't ask) and had they opted for the US then by being totally non-Chinese and being fluent in both English & Mandarin if either wanted to go into International Business from the US, they'd be ideally suited for operations between Asia & the US. They have a benefit most don't have an Tamil and Malay on the world stage is virtually useless. Had they wanted to speak Tamil, we've never had any qualms about that but we never tried to push it as they had a hard enough time learning Mandarin without anybody speaking it in our household or extended family. Most Local Tamils also speak English so there isn't much of a handicap (but my daughter is picking up Malayalam from her husband as a lot of it is similar to Tamil).

Makes sense, though I would think that from a cultural point of view, it would be important for them to have that connection to their roots, but I also believe connection comes in many forms.

[Lisafuller]

From a practical point of view, it just didn't make sense at the time (and still doesn't). It's good that they can have a decent understanding of Tamil, but on a world stage Hindi would be the best, but frankly, to give a pair of kids the best chance (as dual citizens half S Asian half Caucasian with Sg & US passports (they've since made their choices I guess - I don't know & don't ask) and had they opted for the US then by being totally non-Chinese and being fluent in both English & Mandarin if either wanted to go into International Business from the US, they'd be ideally suited for operations between Asia & the US. They have a benefit most don't have an Tamil and Malay on the world stage is virtually useless. Had they wanted to speak Tamil, we've never had any qualms about that but we never tried to push it as they had a hard enough time learning Mandarin without anybody speaking it in our household or extended family. Most Local Tamils also speak English so there isn't much of a handicap (but my daughter is picking up Malayalam from her husband as a lot of it is similar to Tamil).

What MT do your grandkids take or are they not of school age yet? You mentioned how your kids didn't fit in MOE's box as to what MT to take, and since the policy has become more flexible for mixed race kids (can follow either parent's MT and most take CL for the reasons you mention). Nevertheless, I am not sure if a SC child that would normally be assigned a certain MT can take whatever MT he or she likes these days (also not 100% sure whether this would apply to your grandkids). As I'm sure you know, the policy itself was not rooted in "commercial" value, but a meeting in 1972 and subsequent reforms/negotiations made this policy a gift to most of the kids educated here. All of these events are kind of interesting when you look at where the world is today.

My daughter enrolled in primary school in 2010. I don't recall her being sorted into any mother tongue, we picked Mandarin for her.

[Lisafuller]

From a practical point of view, it just didn't make sense at the time (and still doesn't). It's good that they can have a decent understanding of Tamil, but on a world stage Hindi would be the best, but frankly, to give a pair of kids the best chance (as dual citizens half S Asian half Caucasian with Sg & US passports (they've since made their choices I guess - I don't know & don't ask) and had they opted for the US then by being totally non-Chinese and being fluent in both English & Mandarin if either wanted to go into International Business from the US, they'd be ideally suited for operations between Asia & the US. They have a benefit most don't have an Tamil and Malay on the world stage is virtually useless. Had they wanted to speak Tamil, we've never had any qualms about that but we never tried to push it as they had a hard enough time learning Mandarin without anybody speaking it in our household or extended family. Most Local Tamils also speak English so there isn't much of a handicap (but my daughter is picking up Malayalam from her husband as a lot of it is similar to Tamil).

What MT do your grandkids take or are they not of school age yet? You mentioned how your kids didn't fit in MOE's box as to what MT to take, and since the policy has become more flexible for mixed race kids (can follow either parent's MT and most take CL for the reasons you mention). Nevertheless, I am not sure if a SC child that would normally be assigned a certain MT can take whatever MT he or she likes these days (also not 100% sure whether this would apply to your grandkids). As I'm sure you know, the policy itself was not rooted in "commercial" value, but a meeting in 1972 and subsequent reforms/negotiations made this policy a gift to most of the kids educated here. All of these events are kind of interesting when you look at where the world is today.

Another juicy bit from my archives (in my head and paperwork in my filing cabinets here at home. My kids are now 33 & 38 (both born in the OLD KK Hospital) and the youngest (boy) long ago did his NS in the Navy, is now married and Wednesday at 2 minutes before noon gave me my forth grandchild (two girls now from my son's wife, and my eldest (daughter) has already given me 2 grandsons) When my daughter started P1 in CHIJ (Toa Payoh) back in the day, there were NO choices (I'm pretty sure you remember those times) she was born in 1984. I went to war with the MOE and after a 3 month running battle I set a precedence as my "Caucasian" daughter (remember back in the day when the child's race was purely determined by the father's race (the so-called "mother" tongue?)

Well, in addition to that according to the MOE at that time they were trying to make her take Tamil and eventually I won because they pwnd themselves. The rule back then was if you took English as you First language you had no choice but to take Mother Tongue as your second language, but if you took Mother Tongue as your First Language, then you had a choice of 2nd Language. Well, in 1984 My daughter was the first English Mother Tongue Language student they'd ever had and because the father was an American my mother tongue was English. (key in my argument-lots of Europeans are Caucasians as well). but speak a different language as a mother tongue. Sooooo by her taking English as Mother Tongue, she had a choice and we wanted Mandarin. I won. After than, when it was time for my son to go the same route, we'd already set the precedence and by then (5 years later) a fair number more had done the same so that is when the MOE started to relook the language situation. But I was actually instrumental as my daughter was the first. The eldest Grandchild, my daughter's son, is in Primary One at St. Andrews and is taking Mandarin as second language with English first language. As both of my kids are fluent in English and Mandarin, I think all the kids are going to follow suit. Only thing that really makes sense as there are only two major powers in the world. One speaking English the other Mandarin.

Congratulations, SMS! Now, the beautiful thing is your children will be able to converse with their kids in Mandarin the way you and your wife never could. Nothing beats the feeling of giving your children a better life than you had, yet in terms of materials, or the skills that they have.

[Lisafuller]

Another juicy bit from my archives (in my head and paperwork in my filing cabinets here at home. My kids are now 33 & 38 (both born in the OLD KK Hospital) and the youngest (boy) long ago did his NS in the Navy, is now married and Wednesday at 2 minutes before noon gave me my forth grandchild (two girls now from my son's wife, and my eldest (daughter) has already given me 2 grandsons) When my daughter started P1 in CHIJ (Toa Payoh) back in the day, there were NO choices (I'm pretty sure you remember those times) she was born in 1984. I went to war with the MOE and after a 3 month running battle I set a precedence as my "Caucasian" daughter (remember back in the day when the child's race was purely determined by the father's race (the so-called "mother" tongue?)

Well, in addition to that according to the MOE at that time they were trying to make her take Tamil and eventually I won because they pwnd themselves. The rule back then was if you took English as you First language you had no choice but to take Mother Tongue as your second language, but if you took Mother Tongue as your First Language, then you had a choice of 2nd Language. Well, in 1984 My daughter was the first English Mother Tongue Language student they'd ever had and because the father was an American my mother tongue was English. (key in my argument-lots of Europeans are Caucasians as well). but speak a different language as a mother tongue. Sooooo by her taking English as Mother Tongue, she had a choice and we wanted Mandarin. I won. After than, when it was time for my son to go the same route, we'd already set the precedence and by then (5 years later) a fair number more had done the same so that is when the MOE started to relook the language situation. But I was actually instrumental as my daughter was the first. The eldest Grandchild, my daughter's son, is in Primary One at St. Andrews and is taking Mandarin as second language with English first language. As both of my kids are fluent in English and Mandarin, I think all the kids are going to follow suit. Only thing that really makes sense as there are only two major powers in the world. One speaking English the other Mandarin.

First off, congratulations to you and the others on the new addition to the family! Always something more important than some of the other topics here.

I guess it was a good bet to make at the time (or maybe it had some option value whereas the others had a lot less). Glad their kids are able to continue with it as well (given where we are today).

If you look at MOELC (Third Lang), they started with German, Japanese, and French, and based on the historical GDP tables that made sense. I still like L3 for the different cultural perspective it provides (not so much on the basic/mid-level language skills), but one has to ask whether it is better to just plow all of that time in to EL and CL. I.e. being very good at two is better than being reasonably good at three? Of course, some kids do very well in L3 (I think there is more inherent interest whereas sometimes MT gets turned into "another subject" and kids lose interest / they are only learning for exam purposes) and then have unique opportunities available to them. Other kids are just linguistically inclined and can pickup whatever you throw at them. Regardless, in the end internal interest trumps all...

At my daughter's secondary school where third language was offered, it could be subbed in for another subject when GPAs were being computed. This was an incentive for those who were weak in another subject, but strong in third language. I had expected French or Spanish to be among the more popular choices, but I was surprised to hear that Japanese was actually the front runner, at least in her school. Must be due to all the J Pop influence. I can only imagine if Korean was offered.

[malcontent]

I thought it would be useful for my daughter to learn Chinese, and she did take higher Chinese and scored distinction on her O-level exam… but practically, when we were in Taiwan and I asked her to help me order in Chinese, she spoke to the lady in English . I guess she is technically proficient, but unless she is absolutely forced to, she is never going to use the language.

Will it ever be a benefit for her? Hard to say. People always assume it will, but not knowing Chinese has never hindered me in my Singapore career, albeit for a US multinational. And although I do have regular meetings with our China-based colleagues, we just use English, and it’s never been an issue. Being able to speak Chinese… it seems more like a nice to have. Now, if I were forced to take an assignment in China, I can see where that would be a different story… but who wants to live in China? Now, an assignment in Japan, I can see some appeal there. I actually took Japanese in college and it’s a fun language to learn. It is almost the exact reverse of English grammar… just speak like Yoda from Star Wars and you’ve got the grammar mastered. The words are also easy to pronounce, similar consonant-vowel structure as bahasa, just more sophisticated in terms of tenses and root words. Having a phonetic alphabet and none of the tones helps too.

[NYY1]

My daughter enrolled in primary school in 2010. I don't recall her being sorted into any mother tongue, we picked Mandarin for her.

I don't know all of your family details but it is likely because she doesn't fit into C, M, or I? Those people (citizens) would naturally be assigned to the corresponding MT. The dual race kids can pick, as can the international students (ASEAN, etc).