Can a child of (a foreigner parent + Singaporean) take foreign citizenship?

[Path2Family]

Hi all, I recently got citizenship by registration. My wife and my son (born before I got citizenship) are PRs here. If I have another kid and if s/he is born in Singapore, can s/he take my wife's citizenship and be on the PR? I don't mind him (if we have another son) doing the NS, but I want to aggressively try and avoid local schooling for both my kids because of several reasons.

If this is not possible, what are my options? How do I ensure that my second kid does *not* get Singapore citizenship and can attend an International School? Thank you in advance for your advice.

[NYY1]

When did you receive SC and when did your wife/son obtain PR? Both are recent?

A child born in Singapore to a SC Parent will be a SC.

[Path2Family]

Thank you, NYY1. Yes, both are very recent.

Does that mean that we will have to ensure that our child if born overseas and then bring him or her to Singapore? And then sponsor his or her PR application as a citizen? Is that correct?

[sundaymorningstaple]

Be careful what you try. Especially if it a male child. It is a minefield if you try to play with the military here. I know. I worked for 14 years with a PAP card carrying member who did something similar. He went to Uni in the UK and then worked for a JP Investment bank for 22 years before returning to Singapore with his East European wife. He had two young children born in the UK who both have British Citizenship. When he returned with his young family. He applied for and got PR for his wife and daughter who had just started primary school (international school) and the boy was just K1 or K2 (not sure which but definitely K). After about 3 months into the K, Daddy pulled him out (it was a PAP Kindergarten) and got him a student visa (not PR) and sent him into the International School as well, but on a student visa. That's where he stayed until he graduated and went off to Uni (Cambridge) and got his BSc & MSc in Civil Engrg and then returned to Singapore only to find that I could not get him an Employment Pass regardless of his education and salary level in his Father's company (I was the HR & Finance Mgr there for my last 14 years of employment (retired 4 years ago at 71+) I told the Father early on while the boy was still in Sec School what was going to happen but he figured he was smarter than the government but as it came to pass I'd hit nail squarely on the head. They allowed in to enter SG on a SVP (90 days bog-standard) then he had to return to the UK. This went on for a couple years until we opened a overseas subsidiary in Yangon and made him the MD and that was around 6 years ago and he still isn't allowed any sort off residency visa here in Singapore as in the eyes of MINDEF (and a fact) that it was done to avoid NS. ICA, MOM & CMPB have long memories. Every time his EP application was rejected is came with the following in the explanation box. "You have unresolved issues with the Central Manpower Board of MINDEF" Please contact the CMPB for more information" (or similar).

What I'm saying is it is a veritable minefield with tripwires and bouncing betties everywhere. Don't' play-play as while you might not be affected (or you might) but you son could end up hating you. Especially if he's tossed out of the country after spending 18 years here - the love of his life might be here as well. Do some archive searches of this board (in the Strictly Speaking subforum for posts from me, Mad Scientist and others. Forewarned is forearmed.

[NYY1]

Thank you, NYY1. Yes, both are very recent.

Does that mean that we will have to ensure that our child if born overseas and then bring him or her to Singapore? And then sponsor his or her PR application as a citizen? Is that correct?

OK based on your first post it seems like they approved the spouse/son sponsored (as a PR) PR application and then your SC. Somewhat interesting.

It means what it means, and I do not know if your other plan (work-around) is going to work or not.
Personally, I don't think it's as straightforward as it was sponsoring your son (and wife), even though this time would be as an SC (and not a PR), but I could be wrong. Per the other reply above, you need to understand what you may be getting yourself into.

Lastly, in years past dual citizen kids could get a waiver from MOE schools, but I don't know if this is possible any longer. Further, since I doubt you will be wanting to send the next kid to a school of your wife's nationality, the ask may look even funnier (if even possible these days).

[jalanjalan]

Thank you, NYY1. Yes, both are very recent.

Does that mean that we will have to ensure that our child if born overseas and then bring him or her to Singapore? And then sponsor his or her PR application as a citizen? Is that correct?

What if your future child's PR application is rejected?
You're basically signaling that your family has no intention of becoming SC, just you. And the whole point of granting SC is to have families settle here and have kids.

[Path2Family]

Thank you, SMS. I appreciate you sharing this story in detail, but I think you are misunderstanding? I want my 2nd son/daughter to be a foreign citizen, but *with* PR. That means that I *want* him (if it is a son) to do NS.

What I don't want is local schooling for any of my kids. That is the only and only reason I don't want to give them SC. I would happily get my son to do NS, but the local schooling here is a big no-no for me. I have no intention of playing with the government; all I want is the ability to send them to an International School. Hope that clarifies.

Be careful what you try. Especially if it a male child. It is a minefield if you try to play with the military here. I know. I worked for 14 years with a PAP card carrying member who did something similar. He went to Uni in the UK and then worked for a JP Investment bank for 22 years before returning to Singapore with his East European wife. He had two young children born in the UK who both have British Citizenship. When he returned with his young family. He applied for and got PR for his wife and daughter who had just started primary school (international school) and the boy was just K1 or K2 (not sure which but definitely K). After about 3 months into the K, Daddy pulled him out (it was a PAP Kindergarten) and got him a student visa (not PR) and sent him into the International school as well, but on a student visa. That's where he stayed until he graduated and went off to Uni (Cambridge) and got his BSc & MSc in Civil Engrg and then returned to Singapore only to find that I could not get him an Employment Pass regardless of his education and salary level in his Father's company (I was the HR & Finance Mgr there for my last 14 years of employment (retired 4 years ago at 71+) I told the Father early on while the boy was still in Sec School what was going to happen but he figured he was smarter than the government but as it came to pass I'd hit nail squarely on the head. They allowed in to enter SG on a SVP (90 days bog-standard) then he had to return to the UK. This went on for a couple years until we opened a overseas subsidiary in Yangon and made him the MD and that was around 6 years ago and he still isn't allowed any sort off residency visa here in Singapore as in the eyes of MINDEF (and a fact) that it was done to avoid NS. ICA, MOM & CMPB have long memories. Every time his EP application was rejected is came with the following in the explanation box. "You have unresolved issues with the Central Manpower Board of MINDEF" Please contact the CMPB for more information" (or similar).

What I'm saying is it is a veritable minefield with tripwires and bouncing betties everywhere. Don't' play-play as while you might not be affected (or you might) but you son could end up hating you. Especially if he's tossed out of the country after spending 18 years here - the love of his life might be here as well. Do some archive searches of this board (in the Strictly Speaking subforum for posts from me, Mad Scientist and others. Forewarned is forearmed.

[Path2Family]

Thank you, NYY1, for your feedback. Wish I had just remained PR and given my second child PR as well before applying for citizenship for only myself...

Didn't realize this limitation until I read the fine print that my 2nd child will be forced into Singaporean citizenship (and hence local schooling) if he or she is born here. Quite sad.

Thank you, NYY1. Yes, both are very recent.

Does that mean that we will have to ensure that our child if born overseas and then bring him or her to Singapore? And then sponsor his or her PR application as a citizen? Is that correct?

OK based on your first post it seems like they approved the spouse/son sponsored (as a PR) PR application and then your SC. Somewhat interesting.

It means what it means, and I do not know if your other plan (work-around) is going to work or not.
Personally, I don't think it's as straightforward as it was sponsoring your son (and wife), even though this time would be as an SC (and not a PR), but I could be wrong. Per the other reply above, you need to understand what you may be getting yourself into.

Lastly, in years past dual citizen kids could get a waiver from MOE schools, but I don't know if this is possible any longer. Further, since I doubt you will be wanting to send the next kid to a school of your wife's nationality, the ask may look even funnier (if even possible these days).

[therat]

what make you think that. your 2nd born will get PR while one of the parent is SC?

[sundaymorningstaple]

I know the scenario is different, but it is just an example of the minefields that the government sets up to prevent playing around with the systems they have put into place. Dual citizenship children or Parents who are SGCs and try to circumvent local protocols for their own purposes are usually tripped up at some point. The point I see is that the parent who is NOT a citizen could possibly have their REP not renewed, just to prove a point that here you do it their way or it's the highway. They always have the upper hand and occasionally prove it to ensure all play by the rules. Remember, it's their ball, their rules and their pitch.

[Path2Family]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, SMS. You always provide useful advice.

Maybe this is a sign from the dear Lord to stop at one kid

I know the scenario is different, but it is just an example of the minefields that the government sets up to prevent playing around with the systems they have put into place. Dual citizenship children or Parents who are SGCs and try to circumvent local protocols for their own purposes are usually tripped up at some point. The point I see is that the parent who is NOT a citizen could possibly have their REP not renewed, just to prove a point that here you do it their way or it's the highway. They always have the upper hand and occasionally prove it to ensure all play by the rules. Remember, it's their ball, their rules and their pitch.

[david85]

In my opinion nobody is forcing your 2nd child into Singapore citizenship. But all birth occur in Singapore must be registered locally and from there the child citizenship is determined by Singapore law. This is quite a common sense. Wish you have considered this before taking up SC.

If your baby is born overseas, I think it will be difficult for him/her to obtain PR because the baby is eligible for SC by descent.

Thank you, NYY1, for your feedback. Wish I had just remained PR and given my second child PR as well before applying for citizenship for only myself...

Didn't realize this limitation until I read the fine print that my 2nd child will be forced into Singaporean citizenship (and hence local schooling) if he or she is born here. Quite sad.

Thank you, NYY1. Yes, both are very recent.

Does that mean that we will have to ensure that our child if born overseas and then bring him or her to Singapore? And then sponsor his or her PR application as a citizen? Is that correct?

OK based on your first post it seems like they approved the spouse/son sponsored (as a PR) PR application and then your SC. Somewhat interesting.

It means what it means, and I do not know if your other plan (work-around) is going to work or not.
Personally, I don't think it's as straightforward as it was sponsoring your son (and wife), even though this time would be as an SC (and not a PR), but I could be wrong. Per the other reply above, you need to understand what you may be getting yourself into.

Lastly, in years past dual citizen kids could get a waiver from MOE schools, but I don't know if this is possible any longer. Further, since I doubt you will be wanting to send the next kid to a school of your wife's nationality, the ask may look even funnier (if even possible these days).

[nomadinsg]

Hey OP - I know of SC + French spouse families who got waivers from MOE for the kids to study in the French school, so if your spouse has a nationality which matches an International School you might have a better chance.