US university admissions

[malcontent]

You know, depending on which school she goes to and who she surrounds herself with, it's highly possible that the pattern could repeat itself for all four years. It's not uncommon for kids to be holed up in their rooms all year, heads buried in textbooks.

Very easy to get burnt out and disillusioned.

That is why I don’t want her to go to a school like NUS or U Chicago, both are known by the slogan “where fun goes to die” — that is not a great place for anyone, unless you just love it like your favorite hobby… and she does not.

Her cousin started at UC San Diego last fall and he said it’s easy… has been getting all A’s. More than half of her 12 cousins will likely end up studying post-secondary in the US over the next decade, so it should be a good time.

[Lisafuller]

You know, depending on which school she goes to and who she surrounds herself with, it's highly possible that the pattern could repeat itself for all four years. It's not uncommon for kids to be holed up in their rooms all year, heads buried in textbooks.

Very easy to get burnt out and disillusioned.

That is why I don’t want her to go to a school like NUS or U Chicago, both are known by the slogan “where fun goes to die” — that is not a great place for anyone, unless you just love it like your favorite hobby… and she does not.

Her cousin started at UC San Diego last fall and he said it’s easy… has been getting all A’s. More than half of her 12 cousins will likely end up studying post-secondary in the US over the next decade, so it should be a good time.

One of my close friends has a daughter at UCSD and another at UC Irvine. Both are very happy.

UChigago is pretty scary. One of my nephews wanted to go there badly but changed his mind after visiting. Not because any of the students badmouthed it, but just because it didn't feel like a great fit. Seems like he really dodged a bullet.

[Lisafuller]

Also, on the question of whether your daughter should tick the race boxes in her application, I just read that SCOTUS voted to ban affirmative action. Colleges will no longer be able to consider an applicants race in the admissions process.

[malcontent]

Also, on the question of whether your daughter should tick the race boxes in her application, I just read that SCOTUS voted to ban affirmative action. Colleges will no longer be able to consider an applicants race in the admissions process.

I wholeheartedly applaud the Supreme Court for making the ruling. I believe that things like race and gender should not even be a question on the application and the applicant’s name should also be obscured to avoid any biases about race/gender.

The backlash from the left was expected. I understand the desire to level the playing field for underprivileged, but using race to broadly assume anything about anyone is plain wrong. There are some whites and asians who are just as underprivileged as some hispanics and blacks, and yet they get discriminated against purely for their race. I’ll bet if you really look into the blacks and hispanics who made it into Harvard, many/most come from a privileged background.

Although I disagree with Biden’s reaction to the decision (and his lie about everyone being just as qualified), I agree with one thing he said in his speech — use adversity (not diversity) as a criteria. Colleges are already doing that today.

[Lisafuller]

Also, on the question of whether your daughter should tick the race boxes in her application, I just read that SCOTUS voted to ban affirmative action. Colleges will no longer be able to consider an applicants race in the admissions process.

I wholeheartedly applaud the Supreme Court for making the ruling. I believe that things like race and gender should not even be a question on the application and the applicant’s name should also be obscured to avoid any biases about race/gender.

The backlash from the left was expected. I understand the desire to level the playing field for underprivileged, but using race to broadly assume anything about anyone is plain wrong. There are some whites and asians who are just as underprivileged as some hispanics and blacks, and yet they get discriminated against purely for their race. I’ll bet if you really look into the blacks and hispanics who made it into Harvard, many/most come from a privileged background.

Although I disagree with Biden’s reaction to the decision (and his lie about everyone being just as qualified), I agree with one thing he said in his speech — use adversity (not diversity) as a criteria. Colleges are already doing that today.

I have mixed feelings on the decision.

On one hand, I don't think race should ever be a factor in deciding whether one should be admitted.

On the other, it would be ignorant to pretend that certain races don't have a leg up over others. But yes, I feel a better way to make this decision would be to evaluate the odds that one has overcome.

[malcontent]

Also, on the question of whether your daughter should tick the race boxes in her application, I just read that SCOTUS voted to ban affirmative action. Colleges will no longer be able to consider an applicants race in the admissions process.

I wholeheartedly applaud the Supreme Court for making the ruling. I believe that things like race and gender should not even be a question on the application and the applicant’s name should also be obscured to avoid any biases about race/gender.

The backlash from the left was expected. I understand the desire to level the playing field for underprivileged, but using race to broadly assume anything about anyone is plain wrong. There are some whites and asians who are just as underprivileged as some hispanics and blacks, and yet they get discriminated against purely for their race. I’ll bet if you really look into the blacks and hispanics who made it into Harvard, many/most come from a privileged background.

Although I disagree with Biden’s reaction to the decision (and his lie about everyone being just as qualified), I agree with one thing he said in his speech — use adversity (not diversity) as a criteria. Colleges are already doing that today.

I have mixed feelings on the decision.

On one hand, I don't think race should ever be a factor in deciding whether one should be admitted.

On the other, it would be ignorant to pretend that certain races don't have a leg up over others. But yes, I feel a better way to make this decision would be to evaluate the odds that one has overcome.

If you want to talk about ignorant… how about college admissions treating “Asian” & “Hispanic” as races?

The Hmong race are one of the most underprivileged minorities in America, and yet they don’t get a fair shake because other Asians are raising the bar.

I’m sure these admissions folks are really bright sparks… but when it comes to understanding the people of this world, they are about as clued in as Hank Hill —

https://youtu.be/d_CaZ4EAexQ

[Lisafuller]

I wholeheartedly applaud the Supreme Court for making the ruling. I believe that things like race and gender should not even be a question on the application and the applicant’s name should also be obscured to avoid any biases about race/gender.

The backlash from the left was expected. I understand the desire to level the playing field for underprivileged, but using race to broadly assume anything about anyone is plain wrong. There are some whites and asians who are just as underprivileged as some hispanics and blacks, and yet they get discriminated against purely for their race. I’ll bet if you really look into the blacks and hispanics who made it into Harvard, many/most come from a privileged background.

Although I disagree with Biden’s reaction to the decision (and his lie about everyone being just as qualified), I agree with one thing he said in his speech — use adversity (not diversity) as a criteria. Colleges are already doing that today.

I have mixed feelings on the decision.

On one hand, I don't think race should ever be a factor in deciding whether one should be admitted.

On the other, it would be ignorant to pretend that certain races don't have a leg up over others. But yes, I feel a better way to make this decision would be to evaluate the odds that one has overcome.

If you want to talk about ignorant… how about college admissions treating “Asian” & “Hispanic” as races?

The Hmong race are one of the most underprivileged minorities in America, and yet they don’t get a fair shake because other Asians are raising the bar.

I’m sure these admissions folks are really bright sparks… but when it comes to understanding the people of this world, they are about as clued in as Hank Hill —

https://youtu.be/d_CaZ4EAexQ

This makes me wonder why most official forms and applications require you to declare if you are Hispanic specifically. Any idea why? I've searched this on the Internet multiple times, but haven't really gotten a conclusive answer.

[sundaymorningstaple]

It's always been my belief it stems from the intermingling between the European Spanish and the Indigenous peoples of the lands that they invaded/conquered/subjugated/raped/and or pillaged. In South & Central America and adjacent islands lining the Gulf of Mexico they were mixed with the native indians/Mayans,Incans, etc around 5-600 years ago when they plundered the Americas for gold and gemstones. (Which has been a bonanza to treasure hunters looking for the lost Spanish fleets caught in hurricanes with their plunder to take back to the queen and pope.) Most hispanics speak either a form of European Spanish/Portuguese mixed with the local native tongue into a creole of sorts but after 400 years has become an identity of it's own. I always wonder where the word came from but I have a feeling it was originally a contraction of Historically Spanish to differentiate between Spanish as a race and those Mixed with natives of conquered lands. But I'm neither a linguist nor an ethnologist. This is also similar in the Philippines as well but not called hispanics but are considered a race separated from the aborigines of the 'peens.

[malcontent]

I have mixed feelings on the decision.

On one hand, I don't think race should ever be a factor in deciding whether one should be admitted.

On the other, it would be ignorant to pretend that certain races don't have a leg up over others. But yes, I feel a better way to make this decision would be to evaluate the odds that one has overcome.

If you want to talk about ignorant… how about college admissions treating “Asian” & “Hispanic” as races?

The Hmong race are one of the most underprivileged minorities in America, and yet they don’t get a fair shake because other Asians are raising the bar.

I’m sure these admissions folks are really bright sparks… but when it comes to understanding the people of this world, they are about as clued in as Hank Hill —

https://youtu.be/d_CaZ4EAexQ

This makes me wonder why most official forms and applications require you to declare if you are Hispanic specifically. Any idea why? I've searched this on the Internet multiple times, but haven't really gotten a conclusive answer.

I think some bright sparks sitting in some think tank dream up this ignorant stuff, and the ignorant people on the ground have even less of a clue.

Just take Latinx, which some non-Latin person thought would be more appropriate than the gender specific forms Latino/Latina… but had this person been a Latino, they would have known that Latino is already gender neutral - calling a person of any gender a Latino is perfectly fine. Having an o at the end in Spanish means male -or- any other gender, it’s already a catch all… and that’s why Latinx has never been well accepted by Latinos.

You know what they say about good intentions.

[sundaymorningstaple]

You know what they say about good intentions.

Which brings two great songs to mind. And the conundrum they pose.

Stairway to heaven
https://youtu.be/QkF3oxziUI4

Highway to Hell
https://youtu.be/l482T0yNkeo

[malcontent]

I am still puzzling over how my daughter should handle the ethnicity question. None of the comments online are consistent, and now with the new Supreme Court ruling, maybe it won’t make as much difference.

USC is near the top of my daughter’s target school list, and I assume from the admissions data that they do hold Asian students to a significantly higher standard. It’s pretty easy to surmise this by comparing % Asian at the top UCs that are race blind by law.

From everything I’ve read, it does seem like a net positive to discuss being biracial in the essay, especially if you’ve got a bleeding heart story about overcoming adversity as a minority… I think we can come up with one.

Another approach which has worked for applicants similar to my daughter (who have a western surname), don’t talk about race at all and focus on how she has embraced global culture as an American living abroad. I also think we can position my daughter as a future bridge builder between international students and American students on campus - two groups that never integrate well, even among Asians.

As much as I dislike the idea of gaming the system, the fact is that the college admissions folks in the US tend to be bleeding heart liberals, and I’m happy to tell a story that tugs at their heartstrings if it gets her admitted.

[NYY1]

I am still puzzling over how my daughter should handle the ethnicity question. None of the comments online are consistent, and now with the new Supreme Court ruling, maybe it won’t make as much difference.

USC is near the top of my daughter’s target school list, and I assume from the admissions data that they do hold Asian students to a significantly higher standard. It’s pretty easy to surmise this by comparing % Asian at the top UCs that are race blind by law.

From everything I’ve read, it does seem like a net positive to discuss being biracial in the essay, especially if you’ve got a bleeding heart story about overcoming adversity as a minority… I think we can come up with one.

Another approach which has worked for applicants similar to my daughter (who have a western surname), don’t talk about race at all and focus on how she has embraced global culture as an American living abroad. I also think we can position my daughter as a future bridge builder between international students and American students on campus - two groups that never integrate well, even among Asians.

As much as I dislike the idea of gaming the system, the fact is that the college admissions folks in the US tend to be bleeding heart liberals, and I’m happy to tell a story that tugs at their heartstrings if it gets her admitted.

IMO, someone should go with the story that he/she feels strongest about and/or best represents him/her. Both have their selling points. At the same time, the U.S. is itself very diverse and there are other privileged kids (either growing up abroad or other special circumstances), so there will be other applicants playing both of these buckets too (maybe not to the exact same circumstances, but there is uniqueness in many different ways). Hence, I think it is best to speak about who/what you are vs what you think someone else wants to hear (the writing tends to reflect the truth vs. trying to (semi) fake something).

I don't think this is gaming the system. Your kids definitely have a different life experience from a typical suburban kid. Your daughter has checked the grades box, and based on some of your comments (or rants), she may be underweight (relatively speaking) a few other areas. You need to win this component.

As for the recent news, I doubt it will change much. Schools that want to maintain diversity will find ways to do so.

Good luck.

[NYY1]

...
As for whether it takes so much more than it's worth, I'm not sure I fully agree with that. When one understands what these schools are really looking for, it's something that the student wouldn't regret doing irrespective of the admissions outcome (which may be different from mugging). I believe that can be done in the local system, but it is not easy. Perhaps there are other avenues that more easily allow that.
...

Even if one understands precisely what each school is looking for, which, in itself is a tall order, there is so much density in terms of competition that there's a lot of luck that factors in as well.

Applicants today make themselves crazy trying to game the system, calculate their odds, similar to a lot of the PR/SC chances threads we see on the forum.
...

Across the top handful to dozen (I know, debatable exactly what this list is comprised of), there are some differences in what they favour (in totality), but often there is something (common factor) that helps a lot.

But yes, you are correct. Even with many positive attributes it doesn't always work out for everyone. Follow placement from a particular school or into a specific uni year after year, and there are always surprises; both people that looked great and didn't get in and those that didn't look as strong but got the offer. It's for many of the reasons discussed, and partly why I think it is best to aim high (if you so desire) but avoid a die-die approach to things.

[malcontent]

...
As for whether it takes so much more than it's worth, I'm not sure I fully agree with that. When one understands what these schools are really looking for, it's something that the student wouldn't regret doing irrespective of the admissions outcome (which may be different from mugging). I believe that can be done in the local system, but it is not easy. Perhaps there are other avenues that more easily allow that.
...

Even if one understands precisely what each school is looking for, which, in itself is a tall order, there is so much density in terms of competition that there's a lot of luck that factors in as well.

Applicants today make themselves crazy trying to game the system, calculate their odds, similar to a lot of the PR/SC chances threads we see on the forum.
...

Across the top handful to dozen (I know, debatable exactly what this list is comprised of), there are some differences in what they favour (in totality), but often there is something (common factor) that helps a lot.

But yes, you are correct. Even with many positive attributes it doesn't always work out for everyone. Follow placement from a particular school or into a specific uni year after year, and there are always surprises; both people that looked great and didn't get in and those that didn't look as strong but got the offer. It's for many of the reasons discussed, and partly why I think it is best to aim high (if you so desire) but avoid a die-die approach to things.

I chose my university by virtue that it was the closest, a 40 minute drive from where I lived… it also happened to be the largest and best one in the west side of my state, where I was from.

I wish things could be so simple for my daughter, and honestly they could be (almost) if she went to NUS. It is kind of ironic that my dad’s parents moved (with him and his sister) to California when he was a teenager. He was reluctant to go, but ended up meeting my mom there. I believe some tendencies are just coded into our genes (or our fate) and you can often find some interesting parallels.

[NYY1]

Another piece of the admissions puzzle (no statement as to whether it is right or wrong).

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... 90d2&ei=18