Singapore Expats

my wife LTVP rejected

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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Lisafuller
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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 26 Jun 2023 2:34 am

malcontent wrote:
Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:02 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Sat, 24 Jun 2023 9:54 pm
Not sure a IS boy who didn't serve NS would be looked upon too favorably by the ICA, but I don't need to tell you that.

My daughter is also really excited about the prospect of getting her own car, though I'm not sure we'll be able to go through with it as she'll be going to college in NY.
I wouldn’t totally rule out the possibility of my son returning here. At the very least, he could try for an EP (provided he meets the prevailing eligibility criteria at the time). Eventual PR might even be possible.

There are valid reasons we put him in IS instead of local, you need only take one look at his portfolio to appreciate that. At SAS, they have the resources (complete set of AP Art courses), recognition (National Art Honor Society) and opportunities (art competitions and exhibitions). He is taking AP Drawing this fall in 10th grade and will easily knock it out of the park.

Maybe we could have tried Lasalle, but it’s very difficult to get in and we also heard their academics are not up to par. At SAS he is in the advanced math stream and will be going for accelerated chemistry this fall, and to be honest, my son’s English is well above my daughter in JC2.

Now that my daughter is nearing the end of local school here — I am exceedingly glad that it’s almost over. TBH, it’s been a bit like vomiting blood sometimes. She has no friggin time, can’t do anything, can’t go anywhere, even on weekends, even on school holidays, she has projects.. she has exams from day one when she returns next week. I have to say, it’s just stupid crazy — people try to sugar coat it, or justify the means by the ends, but I live in reality land. And now that we are looking at colleges for her and see how little all her effort and grades do for her, it just makes me all the more disgruntled. All of that sacrifice, and what good did it do? Her counterparts elsewhere in the world had real summer breaks to spend time on their passions, enhancing their college prospects, while she was loaded with work that isn’t going to be valued. Instead, her counterparts enjoy grade inflation while she has grade deflation… but their watered down A’s count just as much as her crazy A’s. And it’s amplified by test optional.
It's so interesting that you have two kids so close in age with such different school experiences. I'm assuming the boy speaks with an American accent because of his school environment, does your daughter?

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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 26 Jun 2023 2:38 am

NYY1 wrote:
Sun, 25 Jun 2023 11:18 am
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:02 am
I wouldn’t totally rule out the possibility of my son returning here. At the very least, he could try for an EP (provided he meets the prevailing eligibility criteria at the time). Eventual PR might even be possible.

There are valid reasons we put him in IS instead of local, you need only take one look at his portfolio to appreciate that. At SAS, they have the resources (complete set of AP Art courses), recognition (National Art Honor Society) and opportunities (art competitions and exhibitions). He is taking AP Drawing this fall in 10th grade and will easily knock it out of the park.

Maybe we could have tried Lasalle, but it’s very difficult to get in and we also heard their academics are not up to par. At SAS he is in the advanced math stream and will be going for accelerated chemistry this fall, and to be honest, my son’s English is well above my daughter in JC2.
Seems like you went to SAS because you couldn't get Queenstown (or a school that was deemed "good enough" for the parents)? In hindsight, it may have been a better choice and the experience great (I'm not saying SAS is any better or worse), but it doesn't seem like that was the decision initially.
malcontent wrote:
Wed, 21 Jun 2023 8:10 pm
We put our son (DP holder) through the P1 registration process; tried for Queenstown Primary but couldn’t even get that… they offered him a spot at Cantonment, and we didn’t bother to proceed further. I figure his chances of ever getting PR or SC in the future are probably slim to none… being born in SG to a 2nd gen PR mother.
...
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:02 am
Now that my daughter is nearing the end of local school here — I am exceedingly glad that it’s almost over. TBH, it’s been a bit like vomiting blood sometimes. She has no friggin time, can’t do anything, can’t go anywhere, even on weekends, even on school holidays, she has projects.. she has exams from day one when she returns next week. I have to say, it’s just stupid crazy — people try to sugar coat it, or justify the means by the ends, but I live in reality land. And now that we are looking at colleges for her and see how little all her effort and grades do for her, it just makes me all the more disgruntled. All of that sacrifice, and what good did it do? Her counterparts elsewhere in the world had real summer breaks to spend time on their passions, enhancing their college prospects, while she was loaded with work that isn’t going to be valued. Instead, her counterparts enjoy grade inflation while she has grade deflation… but their watered down A’s count just as much as her crazy A’s. And it’s amplified by test optional.
There are kids here that have time to do other things and will have portfolios comparable to what you are talking about above. Different kids need to put in different amounts of time/effort on academics to produce the same results, and accordingly some have more time than others for interests. Maybe you can see why it's done the way it is (think hard). There are also kids that elect to pursue their interests, possibly at the expense of (some) grades as well (many have recognized that grades are not the only factor when thinking longer-term).

And this is not to say one system is better than the other. Many people here seem to have underestimated the Western education systems because they couldn't stop talking about what school their kid was in. Similar to SAS, entire cohorts elsewhere may not be as strong or as highly sorted, but there will be schools with additional programs and resources so that the capable ones can do more (and there are some schools that can go toe to toe with any of the schools here). That's the competition for highly selective universities; not every student in the US is at Podunk high doing nothing (with only watered down A's).

Regardless, I'm just shocked that everyone here seemed to think grades, time spent, and attended school blah blah blah is what gets a student a university admissions ticket. Or that you can have a happy go lucky school/teenage life and get into the most selective universities in the world; it's a lot of hard work and time spent (not just on grades) whether you are in Singapore, US, or anywhere else. Higher education has changed a lot in the US over the past decades; if people weren't aware of that, they only need to be disgruntled at themselves.

Anyways, good luck with the final semester and sending off the applications later this fall. As I mentioned before, she may get it (the targeted schools) but there could be challenges as well.
Definitely true that locals tend to discount the American school system. When it comes to applying for the top American universities, all applicants will be accomplished in some way.

Though I must disagree with your assessment of the local school system. While it is true that different students will require different amounts of effort to achieve the same results, the system itself is designed in a way that requires extensive participation and commitment, which leaves kids with very little free time to pursue their own passions.

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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 26 Jun 2023 2:41 am

malcontent wrote:
Sun, 25 Jun 2023 10:46 pm
NYY1 wrote:
Sun, 25 Jun 2023 9:39 pm
Yes, the local uni admissions (for most courses) and the US admissions are two completely different systems (pretty sure I've said that before). Not every student here can even get his/her first choice of course locally, so studying hard is worth that. And there's nothing wrong with that at all; it is an accomplishment and many of these kids will do just fine here (local uni and local job market), although I understand why many people wish for their kids to study and work elsewhere (at least initially).

Re basic academic expectation, correct, one cannot fall too far down the totem pole before the chances fall off a cliff. I think many people have recognized that for certain uni destinations, a child may have better odds in an alternative system. At the same time, some kids here have pretty good chances to a handful of different places year after year. So ultimately it depends.

As for your proposal, one can reduce academic rigor, but then there will just be an abundance of candidates with perfect grades all competing on other things. Then, people will complain about lottery odds (I did all of this other stuff and still couldn't get in); hear that story anywhere else?

Sorry to say but scarcity cannot be solved; there will always be more demand for these places than supply (and for a number of reasons the demand has rocketed over the years), and that's why kids everywhere that want this type of stuff (it's not for all) need to make sacrifices. Unfortunately, even then they may not get it.

What you say about CalTech may be true and that is fine (I am not close to that school). However, I think (most of) the students that make it to other comparable places these days are not lacking in the stereotypical ways. Some have recognized the need to develop these other areas that you mention.
For me, the whole process of US college admissions for my daughter has really put my head in a spin.

Basic questions that should have readily available answers are lacking. One example, what grades from her year 12 (JC2) need to be submitted? From all of my google searches, it appears that “whatever latest” grades are available at the time - be it midyear or prelim, should be submitted in the common app. Presumably those will be updated, supplemented and/or verified later when the transcripts and/or A-level results are transmitted.

An even tougher question is, will my daughter (as a US citizen) be pooled with international students or domestic out-of-state students? As far as I can tell it is the latter, but I’ve had a lot of so called experts refute that.

Perhaps somewhat controversially, what should she tick for her race? It is pretty clear that some schools in the US discriminate against Asian students by raising the bar for what they expect them to achieve, and if ticking only “White” will get her better odds of admission, I am all for it. Racial discrimination is plain wrong, no two ways about it.
The school will take care of submitting the transcripts, no worries on your end. In fact, I believe most, if not all schools only accept transcripts sent directly from the school.

I had the same question about my daughter, from what I understand she should be pooled with domestic students residing abroad. So that's a much smaller pool, though I'm not sure if it's advantageous or not.

The recommendation I'm seeing is to leave the race field empty. Schools cannot legally require you to answer the question and more and more kids are choosing to opt out.

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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 26 Jun 2023 2:42 am

malcontent wrote:
Sun, 25 Jun 2023 5:39 pm
NYY1 wrote:
Sun, 25 Jun 2023 11:18 am
Seems like you went to SAS because you couldn't get Queenstown (or a school that was deemed "good enough" for the parents)? In hindsight, it may have been a better choice and the experience great (I'm not saying SAS is any better or worse), but it doesn't seem like that was the decision initially.
malcontent wrote:
Wed, 21 Jun 2023 8:10 pm
We put our son (DP holder) through the P1 registration process; tried for Queenstown Primary but couldn’t even get that… they offered him a spot at Cantonment, and we didn’t bother to proceed further. I figure his chances of ever getting PR or SC in the future are probably slim to none… being born in SG to a 2nd gen PR mother.
...
Things like this are not so cut and dried. At the time there was a waitlist for SAS, no guarantee we’d get in there either. We wanted to know all options available before taking the plunge. No harm putting him through the process… getting offered a place does not obligate one to attend.

I would probably put Queenstown Primary in the middle to bottom half of all local schools. It was simply the closest, half-way decent school where statistically he had some inkling of a chance. Cantonment is further from us but isn’t much worse. My son has a cousin of the same age, same circumstances, who also applied to Queenstown and got Cantonment that same year… and he did end up attending P1-P6. Was it a great experience? No… it was 100% as expected.

Despite the financial drain, we have no regrets and believe it was the right decision for our son considering his way of learning and his talent that would have gone to waste in local school. Better English, more flexibility for being absent from school (even for vacations), and having a life outside of school are also nice perks.
What do you mean by more flexibility for being absent from school?

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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 26 Jun 2023 2:45 am

malcontent wrote:
Sun, 25 Jun 2023 7:33 pm
NYY1 wrote:
Sun, 25 Jun 2023 11:18 am
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:02 am
Now that my daughter is nearing the end of local school here — I am exceedingly glad that it’s almost over. TBH, it’s been a bit like vomiting blood sometimes. She has no friggin time, can’t do anything, can’t go anywhere, even on weekends, even on school holidays, she has projects.. she has exams from day one when she returns next week. I have to say, it’s just stupid crazy — people try to sugar coat it, or justify the means by the ends, but I live in reality land. And now that we are looking at colleges for her and see how little all her effort and grades do for her, it just makes me all the more disgruntled. All of that sacrifice, and what good did it do? Her counterparts elsewhere in the world had real summer breaks to spend time on their passions, enhancing their college prospects, while she was loaded with work that isn’t going to be valued. Instead, her counterparts enjoy grade inflation while she has grade deflation… but their watered down A’s count just as much as her crazy A’s. And it’s amplified by test optional.
There are kids here that have time to do other things and will have portfolios comparable to what you are talking about above. Different kids need to put in different amounts of time/effort on academics to produce the same results, and accordingly some have more time than others for interests. Maybe you can see why it's done the way it is (think hard). There are also kids that elect to pursue their interests, possibly at the expense of (some) grades as well (many have recognized that grades are not the only factor when thinking longer-term).

And this is not to say one system is better than the other. Many people here seem to have underestimated the Western education systems because they couldn't stop talking about what school their kid was in. Similar to SAS, entire cohorts elsewhere may not be as strong or as highly sorted, but there will be schools with additional programs and resources so that the capable ones can do more (and there are some schools that can go toe to toe with any of the schools here). That's the competition for highly selective universities; not every student in the US is at Podunk high doing nothing (with only watered down A's).

Regardless, I'm just shocked that everyone here seemed to think grades, time spent, and attended school blah blah blah is what gets a student a university admissions ticket. Or that you can have a happy go lucky school/teenage life and get into the most selective universities in the world; it's a lot of hard work and time spent (not just on grades) whether you are in Singapore, US, or anywhere else. Higher education has changed a lot in the US over the past decades; if people weren't aware of that, they only need to be disgruntled at themselves.

Anyways, good luck with the final semester and sending off the applications later this fall. As I mentioned before, she may get it (the targeted schools) but there could be challenges as well.
I don’t deny there are naturally brilliant students who don’t need to study much and get excellent grades, but these are truly exceptional and rare. Likewise, there are students who study like crazy, but no matter how hard they try, they just can’t do well.

My daughter and her friends, all of whom are in the top class at her school, are all very similar… all have to study like crazy (according to my daughter). The amount of work gets cranked up the higher you go, which is to be expected, but here it goes from crazy to crazier to craziest in primary, secondary and JC.

My daughter tells me she can get into NUS with 100% certainty at this point, so apparently NUS does value all of the hard work and grades she earned. Agree that things have changed in the US and things have gotten harder… but there is still a basic academic expectation you have to pass just to get your foot in the door. It is not as if they let in students with less than stellar grades just because they wrote a beautiful essay or volunteered at the old folks home. So you can’t just sacrifice one for the other without consequences. I just think they could ease up on the academic rigor to make room for other things. It’s an old school mentality - like thinking hard skills matter more than soft skills, you get what you focus on. I understand that CalTech has privately admitted that they don’t want students from Singapore for this reason.
There's no doubt in my mind that your daughter will get into NUS. Hell, she'll probably get into law or medicine if she chooses to apply.

That being said, I don't think she will have as easy of a time with US admissions. The problem with throwing yourself into school is that come application season, you realize that you don't have any extracurriculars to show for yourself. That, coupled with the fact that app season coincides with national exam periods, makes time management an issue. Unlike the US system where GPAs can extend infinitely due to extra credit, the same cannot be said about SG, so straight A's here tend to mean a lot less than they do there. Grades just aren't enough anymore.

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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 26 Jun 2023 2:48 am

NYY1 wrote:
Sun, 25 Jun 2023 9:39 pm
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 25 Jun 2023 7:33 pm
I don’t deny there are naturally brilliant students who don’t need to study much and get excellent grades, but these are truly exceptional and rare. Likewise, there are students who study like crazy, but no matter how hard they try, they just can’t do well.

My daughter and her friends, all of whom are in the top class at her school, are all very similar… all have to study like crazy (according to my daughter). The amount of work gets cranked up the higher you go, which is to be expected, but here it goes from crazy to crazier to craziest in primary, secondary and JC.

My daughter tells me she can get into NUS with 100% certainty at this point, so apparently NUS does value all of the hard work and grades she earned. Agree that things have changed in the US and things have gotten harder… but there is still a basic academic expectation you have to pass just to get your foot in the door. It is not as if they let in students with less than stellar grades just because they wrote a beautiful essay or volunteered at the old folks home. So you can’t just sacrifice one for the other without consequences. I just think they could ease up on the academic rigor to make room for other things. It’s an old school mentality - like thinking hard skills matter more than soft skills, you get what you focus on. I understand that CalTech has privately admitted that they don’t want students from Singapore for this reason.
Yes, the local uni admissions (for most courses) and the US admissions are two completely different systems (pretty sure I've said that before). Not every student here can even get his/her first choice of course locally, so studying hard is worth that. And there's nothing wrong with that at all; it is an accomplishment and many of these kids will do just fine here (local uni and local job market), although I understand why many people wish for their kids to study and work elsewhere (at least initially).

Re basic academic expectation, correct, one cannot fall too far down the totem pole before the chances fall off a cliff. I think many people have recognized that for certain uni destinations, a child may have better odds in an alternative system. At the same time, some kids here have pretty good chances to a handful of different places year after year. So ultimately it depends.

As for your proposal, one can reduce academic rigor, but then there will just be an abundance of candidates with perfect grades all competing on other things. Then, people will complain about lottery odds (I did all of this other stuff and still couldn't get in); hear that story anywhere else?

Sorry to say but scarcity cannot be solved; there will always be more demand for these places than supply (and for a number of reasons the demand has rocketed over the years), and that's why kids everywhere that want this type of stuff (it's not for all) need to make sacrifices. Unfortunately, even then they may not get it.

What you say about CalTech may be true and that is fine (I am not close to that school). However, I think (most of) the students that make it to other comparable places these days are not lacking in the stereotypical ways. Some have recognized the need to develop these other areas that you mention.
I think a lot of it is false competition. What would be helpful is to impose a limit on the number of schools applicants can apply to, similar to the UCAS system in the UK where applicants are only permitted to apply to five schools, including one of either Oxford or Cambridge, not both. This reduces competition significantly and allows applicants a better chance at schools which truly have their interest.

Now, it's not uncommon to see students applying to 30 or more schools just to cast a wide net. There's no way in hell that they are equally interested in all 30, but if they are a qualified candidate, they may very well get into a large majority of the schools, taking away precious spots from kids who do not have as good of a turnout come decision time.

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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by NYY1 » Mon, 26 Jun 2023 8:34 am

malcontent wrote:
Sun, 25 Jun 2023 10:46 pm
...
An even tougher question is, will my daughter (as a US citizen) be pooled with international students or domestic out-of-state students? As far as I can tell it is the latter, but I’ve had a lot of so called experts refute that.
...
The more common outcome seems to be US Resident abroad (Citizen or Green Card Holder) is treated as a domestic applicant (although this is not the case at all schools last time I checked a few). If you are talking UCLA (domestic out-of-state), there seems to be some conflicting information on the UCLA website and the UC System website.

UCLA (look at the FAQ):

https://admission.ucla.edu/apply/intern ... applicants


Will I be considered a domestic or international applicant if I am a U.S. Citizen but attended an international high school?
If you graduate from a high school outside of the U.S., then you are considered an international applicant. If you graduate from a high school located in the U.S., you are considered a domestic applicant. However, keep in mind this only applies to the application process and might not apply for in-state residency and tuition.


UC (look at the right side of the page):

https://admission.universityofcaliforni ... pplicants/

Who is an international applicant?
You’re an international applicant if you’re not a U.S. citizen or U.S. permanent resident.


Regardless, I'm with Lisa on this point; while the admit rate tends to be lower in the international bucket and the academic stats of kids admitted are sometimes higher, I don't think being in the domestic bucket necessarily makes things easier. Reason being that internationally educated students often compare more favourably with other international students (relative to one's strengths and weaknesses). Unfortunately, this is not a X% and Y% lucky draw (with X% > Y%). It is really about how one ranks vs. the competition.

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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by NYY1 » Mon, 26 Jun 2023 8:44 am

Lisafuller wrote:
Mon, 26 Jun 2023 2:48 am
I think a lot of it is false competition. What would be helpful is to impose a limit on the number of schools applicants can apply to, similar to the UCAS system in the UK where applicants are only permitted to apply to five schools, including one of either Oxford or Cambridge, not both. This reduces competition significantly and allows applicants a better chance at schools which truly have their interest.

Now, it's not uncommon to see students applying to 30 or more schools just to cast a wide net. There's no way in hell that they are equally interested in all 30, but if they are a qualified candidate, they may very well get into a large majority of the schools, taking away precious spots from kids who do not have as good of a turnout come decision time.
I don't disagree with the concept; it would force kids to reveal where they really want to go vs just applying for high ranking schools and hoping for the best. At the same time, it doesn't seem like some of these schools have an abundance of leftover vacancies, and in fact the WL conversion doesn't seem to be exceptionally high either. I.e. the schools are issuing admits (above expected enrollment) and enough of them are taken up to meet the intake numbers (even with many admits given up because any particular student can only go to one uni).

Regardless, practically speaking there probably isn't much of a push to make this happen so we are all stuck with what it is.

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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by malcontent » Mon, 26 Jun 2023 9:55 am

Great discussion and appreciate the commentary.

It’s unfortunate this wasn’t started on a separate thread as it’s become totally unrelated to the original subject. My apologies for that!
It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows - Epictetus

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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 26 Jun 2023 10:21 pm

NYY1 wrote:
Mon, 26 Jun 2023 8:34 am
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 25 Jun 2023 10:46 pm
...
An even tougher question is, will my daughter (as a US citizen) be pooled with international students or domestic out-of-state students? As far as I can tell it is the latter, but I’ve had a lot of so called experts refute that.
...
The more common outcome seems to be US Resident abroad (Citizen or Green Card Holder) is treated as a domestic applicant (although this is not the case at all schools last time I checked a few). If you are talking UCLA (domestic out-of-state), there seems to be some conflicting information on the UCLA website and the UC System website.

UCLA (look at the FAQ):

https://admission.ucla.edu/apply/intern ... applicants


Will I be considered a domestic or international applicant if I am a U.S. Citizen but attended an international high school?
If you graduate from a high school outside of the U.S., then you are considered an international applicant. If you graduate from a high school located in the U.S., you are considered a domestic applicant. However, keep in mind this only applies to the application process and might not apply for in-state residency and tuition.


UC (look at the right side of the page):

https://admission.universityofcaliforni ... pplicants/

Who is an international applicant?
You’re an international applicant if you’re not a U.S. citizen or U.S. permanent resident.


Regardless, I'm with Lisa on this point; while the admit rate tends to be lower in the international bucket and the academic stats of kids admitted are sometimes higher, I don't think being in the domestic bucket necessarily makes things easier. Reason being that internationally educated students often compare more favourably with other international students (relative to one's strengths and weaknesses). Unfortunately, this is not a X% and Y% lucky draw (with X% > Y%). It is really about how one ranks vs. the competition.
Interesting UCLA findings. I've had trouble finding a straight answer online.

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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 26 Jun 2023 10:23 pm

NYY1 wrote:
Mon, 26 Jun 2023 8:44 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Mon, 26 Jun 2023 2:48 am
I think a lot of it is false competition. What would be helpful is to impose a limit on the number of schools applicants can apply to, similar to the UCAS system in the UK where applicants are only permitted to apply to five schools, including one of either Oxford or Cambridge, not both. This reduces competition significantly and allows applicants a better chance at schools which truly have their interest.

Now, it's not uncommon to see students applying to 30 or more schools just to cast a wide net. There's no way in hell that they are equally interested in all 30, but if they are a qualified candidate, they may very well get into a large majority of the schools, taking away precious spots from kids who do not have as good of a turnout come decision time.
I don't disagree with the concept; it would force kids to reveal where they really want to go vs just applying for high ranking schools and hoping for the best. At the same time, it doesn't seem like some of these schools have an abundance of leftover vacancies, and in fact the WL conversion doesn't seem to be exceptionally high either. I.e. the schools are issuing admits (above expected enrollment) and enough of them are taken up to meet the intake numbers (even with many admits given up because any particular student can only go to one uni).

Regardless, practically speaking there probably isn't much of a push to make this happen so we are all stuck with what it is.
Well, obviously certain schools like in demand ivies will rarely need to pull from their waitlists, but other low tier 1 and tier 2 schools tend to admit thousands from the waitlist. UCLA, for example, admitted a couple thousand from the waitlist just last year. Clearly, they had tons of leftover vacancies.

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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 26 Jun 2023 10:24 pm

malcontent wrote:
Mon, 26 Jun 2023 9:55 am
Great discussion and appreciate the commentary.

It’s unfortunate this wasn’t started on a separate thread as it’s become totally unrelated to the original subject. My apologies for that!
Important conversations!

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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 26 Jun 2023 10:31 pm

Tell me where you want to split this thread. It's a bit troublesome but I can hive off a good sized chunk of this into a new thread and then add your new thread to the end of it There is a heck of a lot of good poo that shouldn't be left to wither on the vine in a non-related thread.
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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by malcontent » Mon, 26 Jun 2023 10:37 pm

I would say my post at:

Thu Jun 22, 2023 1:17 am
It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows - Epictetus

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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by Lisafuller » Tue, 27 Jun 2023 12:05 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Mon, 26 Jun 2023 10:31 pm
Tell me where you want to split this thread. It's a bit troublesome but I can hive off a good sized chunk of this into a new thread and then add your new thread to the end of it There is a heck of a lot of good poo that shouldn't be left to wither on the vine in a non-related thread.
You can do that? Mod capabilities are limitless

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