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my wife LTVP rejected

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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Lisafuller
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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by Lisafuller » Wed, 21 Jun 2023 1:08 am

Wd40 wrote:
Thu, 01 Jun 2023 1:30 pm
jalanjalan wrote:
Thu, 01 Jun 2023 1:12 pm
If I were to guess, integration is not even in the top five deciding factors. Direct family ties to a SC, ethnicity, income, education and age I bet would be miles ahead of speaking singlish, liking chicken rice or living in hdb. Else why would the PA have new citizen integration programmes - they'd all be fully integrated already.
Exactly! If integration was a factor, they would ask us for documents to prove it. It is impossible to prove integration like eating durian or chicken rice. I don't call marriage as integration. You don't marry to integrate, if that's the reason why someone married, then that marriage itself looks suspicious. So integration is a side affect of marriage, but please don't call marriage as integration.
Agree, though the reason why marriage is so significant is because integration is inevitable once you've married a local.

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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by Lisafuller » Wed, 21 Jun 2023 1:10 am

sliverchair13 wrote:
Thu, 01 Jun 2023 1:53 pm
MOCHS wrote:
Thu, 01 Jun 2023 11:36 am
Mate, the senior members have already mentioned many times if you send a kid to International School, it’s not looked upon favorably by ICA for PR application. I’m just saying what they stated.

You can also look up articles on ricemedia about PRs serving NS. They studied in International Schools and still felt a disconnection with the locals. ICA is on to something here.

Of course, the parents probably didn’t wanna send them to IS but had no choice. Kid grows up in a different environment from the locals and the No PR cycle continues.
I'm just wondering, if they are PR, they will be given a seat at local schools. Unless they denied it and still went to IS.
If they were offered a spot and denied it, that would certainly come to bite them in the you know what later on.

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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by Lisafuller » Wed, 21 Jun 2023 1:12 am

x9200 wrote:
Thu, 01 Jun 2023 2:47 pm
jalanjalan wrote:
Thu, 01 Jun 2023 1:12 pm
If I were to guess, integration is not even in the top five deciding factors. Direct family ties to a SC, ethnicity, income, education and age I bet would be miles ahead of speaking singlish, liking chicken rice or living in hdb. Else why would the PA have new citizen integration programmes - they'd all be fully integrated already.
Most people seem to perceive integration as almost blindly copying local culture and closely following habits and customs. I think this is wrong. I would say, integration is more about enjoying diversity in smooth and respectful co-existence also offering what your own culture can add to the pot. Singlish is a very good example. One should accept it, understand it to some extent, and not see anything wrong in it, but I doubt not speaking Singlish and speaking proper English instead should have any negative impact. Just the opposite.
That's what's so lovely about singapore being a melting pot. You pick up elements of local culture, and contribute some of your own.

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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by malcontent » Wed, 21 Jun 2023 8:10 pm

Lisafuller wrote:
Wed, 21 Jun 2023 1:10 am
If they were offered a spot and denied it, that would certainly come to bite them in the you know what later on.
Bite them in terms of future SC prospects, or?
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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 22 Jun 2023 12:38 am

malcontent wrote:
Wed, 21 Jun 2023 8:10 pm
Lisafuller wrote:
Wed, 21 Jun 2023 1:10 am
If they were offered a spot and denied it, that would certainly come to bite them in the you know what later on.
Bite them in terms of future SC prospects, or?
Yup.

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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by malcontent » Thu, 22 Jun 2023 1:17 am

Lisafuller wrote:
Thu, 22 Jun 2023 12:38 am
malcontent wrote:
Wed, 21 Jun 2023 8:10 pm
Lisafuller wrote:
Wed, 21 Jun 2023 1:10 am
If they were offered a spot and denied it, that would certainly come to bite them in the you know what later on.
Bite them in terms of future SC prospects, or?
Yup.
We put our son (DP holder) through the P1 registration process; tried for Queenstown Primary but couldn’t even get that… they offered him a spot at Cantonment, and we didn’t bother to proceed further. I figure his chances of ever getting PR or SC in the future are probably slim to none… being born in SG to a 2nd gen PR mother.

A friend of mine here was successful, but this was in the late 90’s, he had just returned to SG from college in NYC. Despite being born in SG to a Malaysian PR mother, he had no trouble getting an EP and PR. I still remember, they called him in for a special interview to explain, but they never made him do NS.
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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 22 Jun 2023 11:51 pm

malcontent wrote:
Thu, 22 Jun 2023 1:17 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Thu, 22 Jun 2023 12:38 am
malcontent wrote:
Wed, 21 Jun 2023 8:10 pm


Bite them in terms of future SC prospects, or?
Yup.
We put our son (DP holder) through the P1 registration process; tried for Queenstown Primary but couldn’t even get that… they offered him a spot at Cantonment, and we didn’t bother to proceed further. I figure his chances of ever getting PR or SC in the future are probably slim to none… being born in SG to a 2nd gen PR mother.

A friend of mine here was successful, but this was in the late 90’s, he had just returned to SG from college in NYC. Despite being born in SG to a Malaysian PR mother, he had no trouble getting an EP and PR. I still remember, they called him in for a special interview to explain, but they never made him do NS.
Do you think he'll want PR or SC anyway? Seems like he's on the track to spend most of his time after high school in the US (I assume he'll follow in the footsteps of your daughter, and do college back in the states).

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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by malcontent » Fri, 23 Jun 2023 10:29 pm

Lisafuller wrote:
Thu, 22 Jun 2023 11:51 pm
malcontent wrote:
Thu, 22 Jun 2023 1:17 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Thu, 22 Jun 2023 12:38 am


Yup.
We put our son (DP holder) through the P1 registration process; tried for Queenstown Primary but couldn’t even get that… they offered him a spot at Cantonment, and we didn’t bother to proceed further. I figure his chances of ever getting PR or SC in the future are probably slim to none… being born in SG to a 2nd gen PR mother.

A friend of mine here was successful, but this was in the late 90’s, he had just returned to SG from college in NYC. Despite being born in SG to a Malaysian PR mother, he had no trouble getting an EP and PR. I still remember, they called him in for a special interview to explain, but they never made him do NS.
Do you think he'll want PR or SC anyway? Seems like he's on the track to spend most of his time after high school in the US (I assume he'll follow in the footsteps of your daughter, and do college back in the states).
They’ll both do college stateside… but who knows from there? My suggestion to them would be to work in the US first, at least as a fresh grad… higher pay, better training & experience, lower cost of living. If nothing else, for the experience of owning a large fully detached home and a couple of nice cars… and cheap vacations that don’t involve flying. My son is super pumped about the cars… he’s been searching on carfax.com and found ones he likes under $20k, but he also wants to design his own home, and he also also wants a gun collection and he wants to get out on the racetrack, and it’d be nice to play pool!
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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by Lisafuller » Sat, 24 Jun 2023 9:54 pm

Not sure a IS boy who didn't serve NS would be looked upon too favorably by the ICA, but I don't need to tell you that.

My daughter is also really excited about the prospect of getting her own car, though I'm not sure we'll be able to go through with it as she'll be going to college in NY.

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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by malcontent » Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:02 am

Lisafuller wrote:
Sat, 24 Jun 2023 9:54 pm
Not sure a IS boy who didn't serve NS would be looked upon too favorably by the ICA, but I don't need to tell you that.

My daughter is also really excited about the prospect of getting her own car, though I'm not sure we'll be able to go through with it as she'll be going to college in NY.
I wouldn’t totally rule out the possibility of my son returning here. At the very least, he could try for an EP (provided he meets the prevailing eligibility criteria at the time). Eventual PR might even be possible.

There are valid reasons we put him in IS instead of local, you need only take one look at his portfolio to appreciate that. At SAS, they have the resources (complete set of AP Art courses), recognition (National Art Honor Society) and opportunities (art competitions and exhibitions). He is taking AP Drawing this fall in 10th grade and will easily knock it out of the park.

Maybe we could have tried Lasalle, but it’s very difficult to get in and we also heard their academics are not up to par. At SAS he is in the advanced math stream and will be going for accelerated chemistry this fall, and to be honest, my son’s English is well above my daughter in JC2.

Now that my daughter is nearing the end of local school here — I am exceedingly glad that it’s almost over. TBH, it’s been a bit like vomiting blood sometimes. She has no friggin time, can’t do anything, can’t go anywhere, even on weekends, even on school holidays, she has projects.. she has exams from day one when she returns next week. I have to say, it’s just stupid crazy — people try to sugar coat it, or justify the means by the ends, but I live in reality land. And now that we are looking at colleges for her and see how little all her effort and grades do for her, it just makes me all the more disgruntled. All of that sacrifice, and what good did it do? Her counterparts elsewhere in the world had real summer breaks to spend time on their passions, enhancing their college prospects, while she was loaded with work that isn’t going to be valued. Instead, her counterparts enjoy grade inflation while she has grade deflation… but their watered down A’s count just as much as her crazy A’s. And it’s amplified by test optional.
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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by NYY1 » Sun, 25 Jun 2023 11:18 am

malcontent wrote:
Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:02 am
I wouldn’t totally rule out the possibility of my son returning here. At the very least, he could try for an EP (provided he meets the prevailing eligibility criteria at the time). Eventual PR might even be possible.

There are valid reasons we put him in IS instead of local, you need only take one look at his portfolio to appreciate that. At SAS, they have the resources (complete set of AP Art courses), recognition (National Art Honor Society) and opportunities (art competitions and exhibitions). He is taking AP Drawing this fall in 10th grade and will easily knock it out of the park.

Maybe we could have tried Lasalle, but it’s very difficult to get in and we also heard their academics are not up to par. At SAS he is in the advanced math stream and will be going for accelerated chemistry this fall, and to be honest, my son’s English is well above my daughter in JC2.
Seems like you went to SAS because you couldn't get Queenstown (or a school that was deemed "good enough" for the parents)? In hindsight, it may have been a better choice and the experience great (I'm not saying SAS is any better or worse), but it doesn't seem like that was the decision initially.
malcontent wrote:
Wed, 21 Jun 2023 8:10 pm
We put our son (DP holder) through the P1 registration process; tried for Queenstown Primary but couldn’t even get that… they offered him a spot at Cantonment, and we didn’t bother to proceed further. I figure his chances of ever getting PR or SC in the future are probably slim to none… being born in SG to a 2nd gen PR mother.
...
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:02 am
Now that my daughter is nearing the end of local school here — I am exceedingly glad that it’s almost over. TBH, it’s been a bit like vomiting blood sometimes. She has no friggin time, can’t do anything, can’t go anywhere, even on weekends, even on school holidays, she has projects.. she has exams from day one when she returns next week. I have to say, it’s just stupid crazy — people try to sugar coat it, or justify the means by the ends, but I live in reality land. And now that we are looking at colleges for her and see how little all her effort and grades do for her, it just makes me all the more disgruntled. All of that sacrifice, and what good did it do? Her counterparts elsewhere in the world had real summer breaks to spend time on their passions, enhancing their college prospects, while she was loaded with work that isn’t going to be valued. Instead, her counterparts enjoy grade inflation while she has grade deflation… but their watered down A’s count just as much as her crazy A’s. And it’s amplified by test optional.
There are kids here that have time to do other things and will have portfolios comparable to what you are talking about above. Different kids need to put in different amounts of time/effort on academics to produce the same results, and accordingly some have more time than others for interests. Maybe you can see why it's done the way it is (think hard). There are also kids that elect to pursue their interests, possibly at the expense of (some) grades as well (many have recognized that grades are not the only factor when thinking longer-term).

And this is not to say one system is better than the other. Many people here seem to have underestimated the Western education systems because they couldn't stop talking about what school their kid was in. Similar to SAS, entire cohorts elsewhere may not be as strong or as highly sorted, but there will be schools with additional programs and resources so that the capable ones can do more (and there are some schools that can go toe to toe with any of the schools here). That's the competition for highly selective universities; not every student in the US is at Podunk high doing nothing (with only watered down A's).

Regardless, I'm just shocked that everyone here seemed to think grades, time spent, and attended school blah blah blah is what gets a student a university admissions ticket. Or that you can have a happy go lucky school/teenage life and get into the most selective universities in the world; it's a lot of hard work and time spent (not just on grades) whether you are in Singapore, US, or anywhere else. Higher education has changed a lot in the US over the past decades; if people weren't aware of that, they only need to be disgruntled at themselves.

Anyways, good luck with the final semester and sending off the applications later this fall. As I mentioned before, she may get it (the targeted schools) but there could be challenges as well.

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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by malcontent » Sun, 25 Jun 2023 5:39 pm

NYY1 wrote:
Sun, 25 Jun 2023 11:18 am
Seems like you went to SAS because you couldn't get Queenstown (or a school that was deemed "good enough" for the parents)? In hindsight, it may have been a better choice and the experience great (I'm not saying SAS is any better or worse), but it doesn't seem like that was the decision initially.
malcontent wrote:
Wed, 21 Jun 2023 8:10 pm
We put our son (DP holder) through the P1 registration process; tried for Queenstown Primary but couldn’t even get that… they offered him a spot at Cantonment, and we didn’t bother to proceed further. I figure his chances of ever getting PR or SC in the future are probably slim to none… being born in SG to a 2nd gen PR mother.
...
Things like this are not so cut and dried. At the time there was a waitlist for SAS, no guarantee we’d get in there either. We wanted to know all options available before taking the plunge. No harm putting him through the process… getting offered a place does not obligate one to attend.

I would probably put Queenstown Primary in the middle to bottom half of all local schools. It was simply the closest, half-way decent school where statistically he had some inkling of a chance. Cantonment is further from us but isn’t much worse. My son has a cousin of the same age, same circumstances, who also applied to Queenstown and got Cantonment that same year… and he did end up attending P1-P6. Was it a great experience? No… it was 100% as expected.

Despite the financial drain, we have no regrets and believe it was the right decision for our son considering his way of learning and his talent that would have gone to waste in local school. Better English, more flexibility for being absent from school (even for vacations), and having a life outside of school are also nice perks.
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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by malcontent » Sun, 25 Jun 2023 7:33 pm

NYY1 wrote:
Sun, 25 Jun 2023 11:18 am
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 25 Jun 2023 12:02 am
Now that my daughter is nearing the end of local school here — I am exceedingly glad that it’s almost over. TBH, it’s been a bit like vomiting blood sometimes. She has no friggin time, can’t do anything, can’t go anywhere, even on weekends, even on school holidays, she has projects.. she has exams from day one when she returns next week. I have to say, it’s just stupid crazy — people try to sugar coat it, or justify the means by the ends, but I live in reality land. And now that we are looking at colleges for her and see how little all her effort and grades do for her, it just makes me all the more disgruntled. All of that sacrifice, and what good did it do? Her counterparts elsewhere in the world had real summer breaks to spend time on their passions, enhancing their college prospects, while she was loaded with work that isn’t going to be valued. Instead, her counterparts enjoy grade inflation while she has grade deflation… but their watered down A’s count just as much as her crazy A’s. And it’s amplified by test optional.
There are kids here that have time to do other things and will have portfolios comparable to what you are talking about above. Different kids need to put in different amounts of time/effort on academics to produce the same results, and accordingly some have more time than others for interests. Maybe you can see why it's done the way it is (think hard). There are also kids that elect to pursue their interests, possibly at the expense of (some) grades as well (many have recognized that grades are not the only factor when thinking longer-term).

And this is not to say one system is better than the other. Many people here seem to have underestimated the Western education systems because they couldn't stop talking about what school their kid was in. Similar to SAS, entire cohorts elsewhere may not be as strong or as highly sorted, but there will be schools with additional programs and resources so that the capable ones can do more (and there are some schools that can go toe to toe with any of the schools here). That's the competition for highly selective universities; not every student in the US is at Podunk high doing nothing (with only watered down A's).

Regardless, I'm just shocked that everyone here seemed to think grades, time spent, and attended school blah blah blah is what gets a student a university admissions ticket. Or that you can have a happy go lucky school/teenage life and get into the most selective universities in the world; it's a lot of hard work and time spent (not just on grades) whether you are in Singapore, US, or anywhere else. Higher education has changed a lot in the US over the past decades; if people weren't aware of that, they only need to be disgruntled at themselves.

Anyways, good luck with the final semester and sending off the applications later this fall. As I mentioned before, she may get it (the targeted schools) but there could be challenges as well.
I don’t deny there are naturally brilliant students who don’t need to study much and get excellent grades, but these are truly exceptional and rare. Likewise, there are students who study like crazy, but no matter how hard they try, they just can’t do well.

My daughter and her friends, all of whom are in the top class at her school, are all very similar… all have to study like crazy (according to my daughter). The amount of work gets cranked up the higher you go, which is to be expected, but here it goes from crazy to crazier to craziest in primary, secondary and JC.

My daughter tells me she can get into NUS with 100% certainty at this point, so apparently NUS does value all of the hard work and grades she earned. Agree that things have changed in the US and things have gotten harder… but there is still a basic academic expectation you have to pass just to get your foot in the door. It is not as if they let in students with less than stellar grades just because they wrote a beautiful essay or volunteered at the old folks home. So you can’t just sacrifice one for the other without consequences. I just think they could ease up on the academic rigor to make room for other things. It’s an old school mentality - like thinking hard skills matter more than soft skills, you get what you focus on. I understand that CalTech has privately admitted that they don’t want students from Singapore for this reason.
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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by NYY1 » Sun, 25 Jun 2023 9:39 pm

malcontent wrote:
Sun, 25 Jun 2023 7:33 pm
I don’t deny there are naturally brilliant students who don’t need to study much and get excellent grades, but these are truly exceptional and rare. Likewise, there are students who study like crazy, but no matter how hard they try, they just can’t do well.

My daughter and her friends, all of whom are in the top class at her school, are all very similar… all have to study like crazy (according to my daughter). The amount of work gets cranked up the higher you go, which is to be expected, but here it goes from crazy to crazier to craziest in primary, secondary and JC.

My daughter tells me she can get into NUS with 100% certainty at this point, so apparently NUS does value all of the hard work and grades she earned. Agree that things have changed in the US and things have gotten harder… but there is still a basic academic expectation you have to pass just to get your foot in the door. It is not as if they let in students with less than stellar grades just because they wrote a beautiful essay or volunteered at the old folks home. So you can’t just sacrifice one for the other without consequences. I just think they could ease up on the academic rigor to make room for other things. It’s an old school mentality - like thinking hard skills matter more than soft skills, you get what you focus on. I understand that CalTech has privately admitted that they don’t want students from Singapore for this reason.
Yes, the local uni admissions (for most courses) and the US admissions are two completely different systems (pretty sure I've said that before). Not every student here can even get his/her first choice of course locally, so studying hard is worth that. And there's nothing wrong with that at all; it is an accomplishment and many of these kids will do just fine here (local uni and local job market), although I understand why many people wish for their kids to study and work elsewhere (at least initially).

Re basic academic expectation, correct, one cannot fall too far down the totem pole before the chances fall off a cliff. I think many people have recognized that for certain uni destinations, a child may have better odds in an alternative system. At the same time, some kids here have pretty good chances to a handful of different places year after year. So ultimately it depends.

As for your proposal, one can reduce academic rigor, but then there will just be an abundance of candidates with perfect grades all competing on other things. Then, people will complain about lottery odds (I did all of this other stuff and still couldn't get in); hear that story anywhere else?

Sorry to say but scarcity cannot be solved; there will always be more demand for these places than supply (and for a number of reasons the demand has rocketed over the years), and that's why kids everywhere that want this type of stuff (it's not for all) need to make sacrifices. Unfortunately, even then they may not get it.

What you say about CalTech may be true and that is fine (I am not close to that school). However, I think (most of) the students that make it to other comparable places these days are not lacking in the stereotypical ways. Some have recognized the need to develop these other areas that you mention.

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Re: my wife LTVP rejected

Post by malcontent » Sun, 25 Jun 2023 10:46 pm

NYY1 wrote:
Sun, 25 Jun 2023 9:39 pm
Yes, the local uni admissions (for most courses) and the US admissions are two completely different systems (pretty sure I've said that before). Not every student here can even get his/her first choice of course locally, so studying hard is worth that. And there's nothing wrong with that at all; it is an accomplishment and many of these kids will do just fine here (local uni and local job market), although I understand why many people wish for their kids to study and work elsewhere (at least initially).

Re basic academic expectation, correct, one cannot fall too far down the totem pole before the chances fall off a cliff. I think many people have recognized that for certain uni destinations, a child may have better odds in an alternative system. At the same time, some kids here have pretty good chances to a handful of different places year after year. So ultimately it depends.

As for your proposal, one can reduce academic rigor, but then there will just be an abundance of candidates with perfect grades all competing on other things. Then, people will complain about lottery odds (I did all of this other stuff and still couldn't get in); hear that story anywhere else?

Sorry to say but scarcity cannot be solved; there will always be more demand for these places than supply (and for a number of reasons the demand has rocketed over the years), and that's why kids everywhere that want this type of stuff (it's not for all) need to make sacrifices. Unfortunately, even then they may not get it.

What you say about CalTech may be true and that is fine (I am not close to that school). However, I think (most of) the students that make it to other comparable places these days are not lacking in the stereotypical ways. Some have recognized the need to develop these other areas that you mention.
For me, the whole process of US college admissions for my daughter has really put my head in a spin.

Basic questions that should have readily available answers are lacking. One example, what grades from her year 12 (JC2) need to be submitted? From all of my google searches, it appears that “whatever latest” grades are available at the time - be it midyear or prelim, should be submitted in the common app. Presumably those will be updated, supplemented and/or verified later when the transcripts and/or A-level results are transmitted.

An even tougher question is, will my daughter (as a US citizen) be pooled with international students or domestic out-of-state students? As far as I can tell it is the latter, but I’ve had a lot of so called experts refute that.

Perhaps somewhat controversially, what should she tick for her race? It is pretty clear that some schools in the US discriminate against Asian students by raising the bar for what they expect them to achieve, and if ticking only “White” will get her better odds of admission, I am all for it. Racial discrimination is plain wrong, no two ways about it.
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