What does permanent relocation to Singapore look like?

[hllowrld]

This is my first post so please bear with me.

I am a Canadian citizen who is in the middle of a career change. The two choices are between a decent position in Canada vs. a more exciting position in Singapore (much higher salary). I expect both of these moves to be permanent. Both my partner and I can secure good jobs in Singapore. I was initially very excited about coming to Singapore, but grew more concerned as I started to research what it would be like to permanently relocate. Several friends told me to read this forum to learn more about living in Singapore as an expat. I was wondering if you'd be willing to share your experience with permanent relocation to Singapore.

I understand some of the pros and cons of living in Singapore. For the pros: it is very safe. The education system is good. The food is amazing. Public infrastructure is sound. For the cons: it is very hot. It is very small so one may get bored after a while. It's a resource-constraint country, and as a consequence there are racial tensions, citizen-vs-non citizen tensions, fluctuating immigration policies etc. However, I am not sure who these affect someone looking to permanently relocate and start a family in the long run.

For instance, one of my primary concerns right now is how our parents can move to live with us after they retire. While I am confident that we will be able to obtain PR and possibly citizenship (but I'm not sure I want to give up my Canadian citizenship), I do not see a straightforward way to obtain means for our parents to live with us post retirement. Have you faced similar considerations? How did you solve this issue? It seems like one way to go is to apply for LTVP. However it seems like the LTVP decisions (e.g. whether it gets approved/renewed, how long it's offered) are not very reliable, especially if there is no baby grandkid to care for.

[smoulder]

My wife's friend, single woman in her 40s and a PR managed to get a LTVP for her mum.

BTW, why are you so confident about getting a PR and citizenship? It's not as "easy" as it is in Canada for instance - it's not as simple as checking the right boxes, racking up enough points and then getting approved. The system here is a lot more opaque and potentially very discretionary - at least no one except ICA officials truly know what criteria are used. Stick around here for a while and you should observe that.

[x9200]

I think your main concern should be your chances of securing PR not to mention SC. How old are you and what is your race/ethnicity to start with? All the other points I think are manageable depending on the salary and saving abilities.

[hllowrld]

I think your main concern should be your chances of securing PR not to mention SC. How old are you and what is your race/ethnicity to start with? All the other points I think are manageable depending on the salary and saving abilities.

Do you mean that if I am able to obtain PR, then renewing LTVPs for my parents is very easy? Even if my kids are old enough such that "taking care of the grandkids" is no longer a good reason for my parents to stay?

[ComingSoon]

A couple of quick points:

You mentioned your partner can secure a good job in SG. Are you certain about this? Getting a job while on a DP can be very challenging in the current environment.

As other posters mentioned, getting PR as a Canadian is HARD, and it might not happen. You may need to adjust your expectations with respect to this point.

[hllowrld]

I just want to clarify - I am ethnically Chinese. The job I would take is in some sense prioritized for immigration - most foreign colleagues who spoke with me are either PR/citizens or chose not to obtain PR/citizen. I also qualify for ONE pass which would allow my partner to work. Obviously getting the PR is not guaranteed. We are currently exploring job opportunities for her and will not relocate to Singapore if she cannot find a good job.

[Ignorant1]

Tricky thing about public forum/ posts is that higher probability you are exposed to mostly negative views. Happy people don’t go out and write their positive experiences . I am Indian and have yet to come across any racial tensions(10 years and counting) . There is always a group of people who are unhappy for X,Y,Z factors. I am sure even if there were no foreigners , they would be unhappy for something else . Happens everywhere. It’s not mainstream/ day to day.

Agree with above that Singapore Pr is mostly a black box. I won’t be so sure about your outcome .
However . Assuming you are making good money (more than 12k) , your parents can stay here with you on LTVP . Don’t need to be for Pr for that

[jalanjalan]

I'm a former Canadian who became Singaporean. In my case I married a Singaporean and moved here a couple decades ago, so the fairly easy time I had getting PR/Citizenship would likely not apply to you. If you come from an urban centre, and are used to crowds and city life, Singapore won't feel all that strange, and if you speak/read Chinese even better. Singapore is clean, safe, orderly and great food as you said. It is also scary expensive - for housing and cars especially. It really depends on your lifestyle and what you value most about your daily life. eg. I am not an outdoor adventure sort of person, just a relaxed walk in the park sort, and Singapore is lovely for that.

When I first came here, my Singaporean husband got us return tickets to Canada, in case I didn't like living here. He figured I'd either love it or hate it. I loved it and never looked back, but I didn't know this til I'd been here some time. In short, I'd suggest you might want to try a work stint here and don't burn any bridges just yet.

ETA: on the retired parents part, a few points - if you do decide to make Singapore your permanent home and bring them over, don't wait too long. If they are in their 80s for example, healthcare will be tricky, and I do know it's harder to get citizenship at that age. Also, be sure your parents would actually want to move. It's pretty hard to uproot to a new place as we age.

[malcontent]

This is my first post so please bear with me.

I am a Canadian citizen who is in the middle of a career change. The two choices are between a decent position in Canada vs. a more exciting position in Singapore (much higher salary). I expect both of these moves to be permanent. Both my partner and I can secure good jobs in Singapore. I was initially very excited about coming to Singapore, but grew more concerned as I started to research what it would be like to permanently relocate. Several friends told me to read this forum to learn more about living in Singapore as an expat. I was wondering if you'd be willing to share your experience with permanent relocation to Singapore.

I understand some of the pros and cons of living in Singapore. For the pros: it is very safe. The education system is good. The food is amazing. Public infrastructure is sound. For the cons: it is very hot. It is very small so one may get bored after a while. It's a resource-constraint country, and as a consequence there are racial tensions, citizen-vs-non citizen tensions, fluctuating immigration policies etc. However, I am not sure who these affect someone looking to permanently relocate and start a family in the long run.

For instance, one of my primary concerns right now is how our parents can move to live with us after they retire. While I am confident that we will be able to obtain PR and possibly citizenship (but I'm not sure I want to give up my Canadian citizenship), I do not see a straightforward way to obtain means for our parents to live with us post retirement. Have you faced similar considerations? How did you solve this issue? It seems like one way to go is to apply for LTVP. However it seems like the LTVP decisions (e.g. whether it gets approved/renewed, how long it's offered) are not very reliable, especially if there is no baby grandkid to care for.

The real elephant in the room is cost of living. That is overwhelmingly the biggest factor in a decision such as this. Let’s take the best case scenario: you have no school aged kids (and never will) and absolutely love taking public transport everywhere (wouldn’t dream of ever owning a car here). You still have to deal with very high housing costs, and lately it’s been going up like crazy from already high levels. Considering future possible increases over the next few years, you might be looking at as much as S$100k annually, just for rent, utilities, etc. Throw two kids on top of that and you’ve got another S$100k in school fees each year. I’m sure you’ve seen the price of cars here, so enough said.

How much more did you say the pay was?

[Myasis Dragon]

This is my first post so please bear with me.

I am a Canadian citizen who is in the middle of a career change. The two choices are between a decent position in Canada vs. a more exciting position in Singapore (much higher salary). I expect both of these moves to be permanent. Both my partner and I can secure good jobs in Singapore. I was initially very excited about coming to Singapore, but grew more concerned as I started to research what it would be like to permanently relocate. Several friends told me to read this forum to learn more about living in Singapore as an expat. I was wondering if you'd be willing to share your experience with permanent relocation to Singapore.

I understand some of the pros and cons of living in Singapore. For the pros: it is very safe. The education system is good. The food is amazing. Public infrastructure is sound. For the cons: it is very hot. It is very small so one may get bored after a while. It's a resource-constraint country, and as a consequence there are racial tensions, citizen-vs-non citizen tensions, fluctuating immigration policies etc. However, I am not sure who these affect someone looking to permanently relocate and start a family in the long run.

For instance, one of my primary concerns right now is how our parents can move to live with us after they retire. While I am confident that we will be able to obtain PR and possibly citizenship (but I'm not sure I want to give up my Canadian citizenship), I do not see a straightforward way to obtain means for our parents to live with us post retirement. Have you faced similar considerations? How did you solve this issue? It seems like one way to go is to apply for LTVP. However it seems like the LTVP decisions (e.g. whether it gets approved/renewed, how long it's offered) are not very reliable, especially if there is no baby grandkid to care for.

As a person born in Canada, I can tell you that I much preferred the warm climate of Singapore over the long and cold winters in Canada. Unless, of course, you live in Vancouver right now. Singapore is not "very hot"... it gets quite a bit hotter here in Houston, TX than it does in Singapore. If living in Singapore, you'd come to enjoy sitting outside at the many eateries for a pleasant evening meal. We took all our meals on our open lanai at home. It's one of the things I miss most about Singapore.

I hope you really do have your spouse's employment lined up already because trailing spouses often have a very difficult time finding a job. The vast majority of employment passes are issued to companies who are transferring in their personnel. There are many stories in these forums (and more stories that have been related to me) of people who thought they would come to Singapore and find a job, only to find out that even after months of searching, they came up empty-handed. The companies don't want you. That's a fact. And if your spouse, does get a job through a work permit tied to your employment pass, you can bet it will be more menial in nature and lower paying. It doesn't matter what she/he has in the way of credentials or experience... it won't matter.

The cost of living is high in Singapore and climbing because of increased rents (which affect the prices of all other goods because the shops are getting raped by the landlords as well). Singapore may have great schools but your children won't be able to get into them. Therefore, you'll need that substantial salary to pay for very high rents, and tuition that, for the Singapore American School, ranges between $35,000 and $50,000 per year, per child. That Honda Civic that you bought in Canada for $25,000 will cost you $150,000 in Singapore. This website is not entirely accurate but will give you some sense of the differentials.

But as others have said, the giant elephant in the room is your ability to stay in Singapore long term. You may rest assured that the "permanent" in Singapore PR isn't really permanent at all. You must renew it every five years, and renewal is based upon your ability to support yourself. Retirement in Singapore will be very iffy unless you have a large barrel of money that guarantees you can live your life and pay for all your medical expenses. Singapore has a very great fear that PR's might become wards of the state. You haven't stated your ethnicity but I'd bet money that your chances are very low, the chances of you being able to bring your parents over on a long term pass are close to nil. Unlike Canada, with national health coverage, you will have to pay and pay in Singapore.

I lived and ran my own company in Singapore for eight years. It was a grand adventure. But when push comes to shove, it wasn't a realistic place for me to retire. Too many uncertainties. And too high a cost of living for retirement in the long run... unless you really do have a big barrel of money.

[malcontent]

I just want to clarify - I am ethnically Chinese. The job I would take is in some sense prioritized for immigration - most foreign colleagues who spoke with me are either PR/citizens or chose not to obtain PR/citizen. I also qualify for ONE pass which would allow my partner to work. Obviously getting the PR is not guaranteed. We are currently exploring job opportunities for her and will not relocate to Singapore if she cannot find a good job.

Being ethnically Chinese alone does not clinch it. It seems that perception is getting more and more widespread. Lessons were learned in the 2000’s when many ethnically Chinese were let in with little to no local affiliation. Many of them used Singapore as a stepping stone to greener pastures. Since then, the process has become more selective, with things like “cultural affinity” now being assessed to ensure a more stable pool of stayers rather than quitters. They want Chinese who gel with the locals and sink permanent roots here… not Chinese for the sake of Chinese.

That said, if you’re in a special industry where they really need talent, that could clinch it.

Because of the extraordinary cost of living here, people tend to stay here for only two reasons: love or money - and I mean that in the broadest sense, it can be any deep family connections or outsized career opportunities, even tax savings for an UHNWI… but it needs to be highly compelling. Once those things are not present, the novelty of living in Singapore wears off fast — it will not overcome the financial cons of living here.

[bro75]

Singapore is safe and orderly. The education system is considered good but as foreigners your kids would likely be enrolled in International Schools as local schools have limited space for foreigners. The cost of living is getting higher. Without any expat packages, rent and school fees would be your biggest recurring expense. You are allowed to sponsor your parents if you have an employment pass and your salary is above 12K SGD. The weather seems to be getting warmer compared to before. As for anti-foreigner sentiment, you would not likely encounter this in person. The internet is a different matter.

[malcontent]

I have noticed over the 27 years I’ve been here that we go through hot spells some years, and others not so much. The current hot spell is not unlike what I recall experiencing in the past. We had some really bad ones in the late 90’s. I even remember wondering if Singapore was fudging the numbers when they gave the average temps which always seemed lower than what we were experiencing then.

Human beings have a natural tendency toward selective memories, especially after experiencing some cooler years (mind you, the differences can be just a few degrees, but with less wind and higher humidity… the difference can feel absolutely miserable). However, when I think back, I have many distinct memories of such hot days in the past — the classic one is taking a shower in the morning and sweating bullets before I could get my clothes on. That’s when you know it’s a hot spell for sure.

[hllowrld]

This is my first post so please bear with me.

I am a Canadian citizen who is in the middle of a career change. The two choices are between a decent position in Canada vs. a more exciting position in Singapore (much higher salary). I expect both of these moves to be permanent. Both my partner and I can secure good jobs in Singapore. I was initially very excited about coming to Singapore, but grew more concerned as I started to research what it would be like to permanently relocate. Several friends told me to read this forum to learn more about living in Singapore as an expat. I was wondering if you'd be willing to share your experience with permanent relocation to Singapore.

I understand some of the pros and cons of living in Singapore. For the pros: it is very safe. The education system is good. The food is amazing. Public infrastructure is sound. For the cons: it is very hot. It is very small so one may get bored after a while. It's a resource-constraint country, and as a consequence there are racial tensions, citizen-vs-non citizen tensions, fluctuating immigration policies etc. However, I am not sure who these affect someone looking to permanently relocate and start a family in the long run.

For instance, one of my primary concerns right now is how our parents can move to live with us after they retire. While I am confident that we will be able to obtain PR and possibly citizenship (but I'm not sure I want to give up my Canadian citizenship), I do not see a straightforward way to obtain means for our parents to live with us post retirement. Have you faced similar considerations? How did you solve this issue? It seems like one way to go is to apply for LTVP. However it seems like the LTVP decisions (e.g. whether it gets approved/renewed, how long it's offered) are not very reliable, especially if there is no baby grandkid to care for.

As a person born in Canada, I can tell you that I much preferred the warm climate of Singapore over the long and cold winters in Canada. Unless, of course, you live in Vancouver right now. Singapore is not "very hot"... it gets quite a bit hotter here in Houston, TX than it does in Singapore. If living in Singapore, you'd come to enjoy sitting outside at the many eateries for a pleasant evening meal. We took all our meals on our open lanai at home. It's one of the things I miss most about Singapore.

I hope you really do have your spouse's employment lined up already because trailing spouses often have a very difficult time finding a job. The vast majority of employment passes are issued to companies who are transferring in their personnel. There are many stories in these forums (and more stories that have been related to me) of people who thought they would come to Singapore and find a job, only to find out that even after months of searching, they came up empty-handed. The companies don't want you. That's a fact. And if your spouse, does get a job through a work permit tied to your employment pass, you can bet it will be more menial in nature and lower paying. It doesn't matter what she/he has in the way of credentials or experience... it won't matter.

The cost of living is high in Singapore and climbing because of increased rents (which affect the prices of all other goods because the shops are getting raped by the landlords as well). Singapore may have great schools but your children won't be able to get into them. Therefore, you'll need that substantial salary to pay for very high rents, and tuition that, for the Singapore American School, ranges between $35,000 and $50,000 per year, per child. That Honda Civic that you bought in Canada for $25,000 will cost you $150,000 in Singapore. This website is not entirely accurate but will give you some sense of the differentials.

But as others have said, the giant elephant in the room is your ability to stay in Singapore long term. You may rest assured that the "permanent" in Singapore PR isn't really permanent at all. You must renew it every five years, and renewal is based upon your ability to support yourself. Retirement in Singapore will be very iffy unless you have a large barrel of money that guarantees you can live your life and pay for all your medical expenses. Singapore has a very great fear that PR's might become wards of the state. You haven't stated your ethnicity but I'd bet money that your chances are very low, the chances of you being able to bring your parents over on a long term pass are close to nil. Unlike Canada, with national health coverage, you will have to pay and pay in Singapore.

I lived and ran my own company in Singapore for eight years. It was a grand adventure. But when push comes to shove, it wasn't a realistic place for me to retire. Too many uncertainties. And too high a cost of living for retirement in the long run... unless you really do have a big barrel of money.

Thank you! This is very informative… I think we’re leaning towards staying in Canada. I think this would have been a great opportunity to try something new, however give the current economic situation, and from the feedback we got from friends that it is actually difficult to relocate back to North America from Singapore, that the risks perhaps outweigh the upside of moving to Singapore.

[taxico]

This is my first post so please bear with me.

I am a Canadian citizen who is in the middle of a career change. The two choices are between a decent position in Canada vs. a more exciting position in Singapore (much higher salary). I expect both of these moves to be permanent.

For instance, one of my primary concerns right now is how our parents can move to live with us after they retire.

While I am confident that we will be able to obtain PR and possibly citizenship (but I'm not sure I want to give up my Canadian citizenship), I do not see a straightforward way to obtain means for our parents to live with us post retirement.

before reading anything except your first post:

you are asian. not there for many generations. you’re not stupid.

you think the world of your citizenship. you want the best bites of everything.

thus, do not go to singapore. try someplace else. you will never be truly happy in singapore.

and if you go, you will leave eventually.