Singapore Expats

Need help regarding PMLA ltvp assessment

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
Post Reply
visionaryz
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat, 29 Apr 2023 4:30 am

Need help regarding PMLA ltvp assessment

Post by visionaryz » Sat, 29 Apr 2023 4:47 am

Hi Everyone,

I have been reading the forum quietly for the past 1 month while waiting for me and my future wife (thai) PMLA assessment approval.

Background of situation;
1. SC (Chinese), 34 this year
2. Working for the past 11 years in the telecommunicaion sector
3. Average monthly pay 9-10k/mth (Basic & commission based with commission liable for cpf deduction). Basic pay is 6.5k/mth
4. Spouse to be : Thai nationality, 32 this year
5. We have known each other for more than a year during my trip to bangkok back in 2022.
6. She is not working at the moment.

Issue:

We have applied for PMLA on 10th April 2023 and recieved the result on 28th April 2023 that it is not successful. I’m puzzled by the approval criteria set by ICA as i have seen many cases that was approved (I think sometimes luck play a huge part).

Question:
1. Can i apply the PLMA the 2nd time and show past 2 years income assessment to prove that i have the ability to support her as a sponsor?

2. I personally have a applied BTO (4 room) under family scheme (together with my mum as she is widowed) and the house will be ready by end of Q4 2023. Does it help in the assessment criteria and i can show that i already have a flat for both me and my future spouse?

3. We have booked our ROM in this coming August 18th 2023, if the PMLA doesn’t approve for the second time then should i go ahead with the ROM then apply LTVP? (In this case to ignore the PMLA as there are few cases that even though PMLA was rejected but LTVP was approved.

Me and my spouse are really devastated upon recieving the rejection email and we do not know what we can do next. Thank you everyone in advance for any advices.

x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10073
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 4:06 pm
Location: Singapore

Re: Need help regarding PMLA ltvp assessment

Post by x9200 » Sat, 29 Apr 2023 7:30 am

visionaryz wrote:
Sat, 29 Apr 2023 4:47 am
Hi Everyone,

I have been reading the forum quietly for the past 1 month while waiting for me and my future wife (thai) PMLA assessment approval.

Background of situation;
1. SC (Chinese), 34 this year
2. Working for the past 11 years in the telecommunicaion sector
3. Average monthly pay 9-10k/mth (Basic & commission based with commission liable for cpf deduction). Basic pay is 6.5k/mth
4. Spouse to be : Thai nationality, 32 this year
5. We have known each other for more than a year during my trip to bangkok back in 2022.
6. She is not working at the moment.

Issue:

We have applied for PMLA on 10th April 2023 and recieved the result on 28th April 2023 that it is not successful. I’m puzzled by the approval criteria set by ICA as i have seen many cases that was approved (I think sometimes luck play a huge part).

Question:
1. Can i apply the PLMA the 2nd time and show past 2 years income assessment to prove that i have the ability to support her as a sponsor?

2. I personally have a applied BTO (4 room) under family scheme (together with my mum as she is widowed) and the house will be ready by end of Q4 2023. Does it help in the assessment criteria and i can show that i already have a flat for both me and my future spouse?

3. We have booked our ROM in this coming August 18th 2023, if the PMLA doesn’t approve for the second time then should i go ahead with the ROM then apply LTVP? (In this case to ignore the PMLA as there are few cases that even though PMLA was rejected but LTVP was approved.

Me and my spouse are really devastated upon recieving the rejection email and we do not know what we can do next. Thank you everyone in advance for any advices.
From what you wrote above it appears you know each other for a very short time and met only during some single visit of yours to Thailand. I would expect this could be the main reason for the disapproval.

Ignoring results of PMLA would probably in your case lead to LTVP rejection, all until ICA is convince that your marriage is not (for example) of convenience.

If I am right as for the disapproval reason, nothing related to HDB flat would have any weightage on the ICA decision.

What you could do next is just wait and maintain your relation. Visit each other, etc. etc. Perhaps she could get a job in Singapore? Unless she is with some low level education what could be another strong negative score point. Why is she unemployed?

visionaryz
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat, 29 Apr 2023 4:30 am

Re: Need help regarding PMLA ltvp assessment

Post by visionaryz » Sat, 29 Apr 2023 10:29 am

Thanks x9200 for the quick reply!

1. I have travel to bangkok a few times to meet her and we even travelled to taiwan during our 1st year anniversary. We have been seeing each other quite often throughout the past 1 year and spending time together. I am curious how ICA will determine and assume that being together for a short time dictate the main reason of rejection. Even in Singapore there are couples who just met each other for 1-2 months then get married for a very long time(just sharing my thoughts).

2. Is there anyway to prove to ICA that this is not a marriage of convenience because as a sponsor with a good track records will not want to break the law and get into such involvement.

3. The reason why we indicate she is not working but she manage an online store that have enough money for her every month.

4. She has not been to Singapore before and I am planning to bring her somewhere in the middle of May. I initially thought that with the PMLA approval it will be easier for her to come as I read online there as many instances whereby Thai ladies have been profile by ICA that they are coming Singapore to work.

I wonder during the PMLA do the officer check my income and qualifications etc before rejecting the application? If not why we have cases whereby PMLA not successful but during LTVP application where they ask for proof of income then it gets approved?

Really appreciate everyone’s input and advices as I know it will help so much!

User avatar
malcontent
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2857
Joined: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:52 am
Answers: 8
Location: Pulau Ujong

Re: Need help regarding PMLA ltvp assessment

Post by malcontent » Sat, 29 Apr 2023 10:06 pm

If you want to bring her to live in Singapore, do not ROM before you get an approved PMLA.

The ICA knows that lots of guys get duped by Thai ladies — it’s one of the most famous countries in the world for this. That fact will make it harder for you to convince them.

Time is the main thing you need to focus on - spending time together and letting time pass. The more both of those happen, the better your case will look.

How is her English? How is her education? How is her economic situation? How about her work history? If she doesn’t have glowing credentials in these areas, it’s going to hinder things further, and you might think about how she can improve her credentials during this time as well.

What about sinsod? Is her family expecting anything from you as a bride price? If yes, that could be a red flag - especially if the girl is not a virgin.
It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows - Epictetus

visionaryz
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat, 29 Apr 2023 4:30 am

Re: Need help regarding PMLA ltvp assessment

Post by visionaryz » Sat, 29 Apr 2023 11:24 pm

Thanks malcontent for the inputs!

1) your advice will be to ask her to get a job in bangkok first so that her profile will look better? Our plan will be for her to do some home based business or manage an online store when she come into Singapore?

2) Just curious, many people comment that PMLA/LTVP solely depends on the sponsor’s ability, how true is this to a certain extend?

3) She has around 6-7k SGD savings in her own bank account, she lives alone in Bangkok and not in contact with her mum as her mum re-marry after her dad passed away when she is very young. She is closer to her aunt that is staying in bangkok.

4) We discussed about sin sod and she is not very interested as she mention she is not very close with her family. The decision to be together and get married will be solely based on us. My family members (mum and sister) have met her before and approved our relationship of being together.

x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10073
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 4:06 pm
Location: Singapore

Re: Need help regarding PMLA ltvp assessment

Post by x9200 » Sun, 30 Apr 2023 9:52 am

visionaryz wrote:
Sat, 29 Apr 2023 11:24 pm
Thanks malcontent for the inputs!

1) your advice will be to ask her to get a job in bangkok first so that her profile will look better? Our plan will be for her to do some home based business or manage an online store when she come into Singapore?

2) Just curious, many people comment that PMLA/LTVP solely depends on the sponsor’s ability, how true is this to a certain extend?

3) She has around 6-7k SGD savings in her own bank account, she lives alone in Bangkok and not in contact with her mum as her mum re-marry after her dad passed away when she is very young. She is closer to her aunt that is staying in bangkok.

4) We discussed about sin sod and she is not very interested as she mention she is not very close with her family. The decision to be together and get married will be solely based on us. My family members (mum and sister) have met her before and approved our relationship of being together.
1. It would be better if she has a reasonably paid job and the fact she can sustain herself allowing her living on preferably above average level is clear.
You seem to avoid answering questions about her education.

2. I doubt it solely depends on the sponsor's abilities. You have to see this whole thing as ICA may see it. For them it is important to protect Singapore against people who intend to abuse the system so as much as you believe or know everything in your relation is genuine ICA has to consider also other scenarios. If she is low educated, with no or low income they will likely see her as looking for opportunity to marry you just to get her foot in, what could upgrade her financial and other status. If, on the other hand, she is well educated with good job and money, she has less reasons to look for such upgrade, so her intention to marry you appears more genuine.

3. This is without any significant weightage. If she had documented savings 100x more than this you could argue this was enough to sustain herself even in Singapore what again may indicate she is not looking for any status upgrade. 6-7k is in that sense peanuts.

GTR1307
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 12:36 am

Re: Need help regarding PMLA ltvp assessment

Post by GTR1307 » Sun, 30 Apr 2023 5:21 pm

visionaryz wrote:
Sat, 29 Apr 2023 10:29 am
Thanks x9200 for the quick reply!

1. I have travel to bangkok a few times to meet her and we even travelled to taiwan during our 1st year anniversary. We have been seeing each other quite often throughout the past 1 year and spending time together. I am curious how ICA will determine and assume that being together for a short time dictate the main reason of rejection. Even in Singapore there are couples who just met each other for 1-2 months then get married for a very long time(just sharing my thoughts).

2. Is there anyway to prove to ICA that this is not a marriage of convenience because as a sponsor with a good track records will not want to break the law and get into such involvement.

3. The reason why we indicate she is not working but she manage an online store that have enough money for her every month.

4. She has not been to Singapore before and I am planning to bring her somewhere in the middle of May. I initially thought that with the PMLA approval it will be easier for her to come as I read online there as many instances whereby Thai ladies have been profile by ICA that they are coming Singapore to work.

I wonder during the PMLA do the officer check my income and qualifications etc before rejecting the application? If not why we have cases whereby PMLA not successful but during LTVP application where they ask for proof of income then it gets approved?

Really appreciate everyone’s input and advices as I know it will help so much!

Hi,

I am usually a lurker but your situation is in some way similar with mine, so I hope you don't mind my input.

I am aware that your gf have not visited SG before, but just curious does she have any have any past Entry Visa into SG rejected before applied by another sponsor before?

In my honest opinion, your PMLA rejection could highly due knowing her for very short time.

User avatar
malcontent
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2857
Joined: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:52 am
Answers: 8
Location: Pulau Ujong

Re: Need help regarding PMLA ltvp assessment

Post by malcontent » Sun, 30 Apr 2023 6:49 pm

visionaryz wrote:
Sat, 29 Apr 2023 11:24 pm
Thanks malcontent for the inputs!

1) your advice will be to ask her to get a job in bangkok first so that her profile will look better? Our plan will be for her to do some home based business or manage an online store when she come into Singapore?

2) Just curious, many people comment that PMLA/LTVP solely depends on the sponsor’s ability, how true is this to a certain extend?

3) She has around 6-7k SGD savings in her own bank account, she lives alone in Bangkok and not in contact with her mum as her mum re-marry after her dad passed away when she is very young. She is closer to her aunt that is staying in bangkok.

4) We discussed about sin sod and she is not very interested as she mention she is not very close with her family. The decision to be together and get married will be solely based on us. My family members (mum and sister) have met her before and approved our relationship of being together.
It doesn’t have to be a job, but she should have an income source. You said she lives alone in Bangkok… how can she afford that without any income? Why isn’t she staying together with her aunt? She has 6-7k SGD savings, where did it come from?

Have you thought about moving to Thailand?
It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows - Epictetus

visionaryz
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat, 29 Apr 2023 4:30 am

Re: Need help regarding PMLA ltvp assessment

Post by visionaryz » Mon, 01 May 2023 4:13 am

Thanks @x9200 once again.

1) Sorry to miss out the education, she have secondary school qualification. She is self sustainable by managing her online business selling stuffs she have. (This include in helping her to pay her rent and daily expenses). She intend to continue the same business model when she come to Singapore. Is there anyway we can let the officer in charge know about this? I am thinking to email them and explain the situation rather than the officer assume that she is looking to upgrade her status by going to Singapore.

2) Both of us are early 30s now and we hope to settle down to build a family in Singapore that’s why i plan to marry her and bring her into Singapore to stay together. I understand ICA’s consideration however as her husband I have the ability to take care of my wife (& also child) in the near future even if she decided to be a stay home wife. I won’t want my wife to work if they have kids and will want to give them everything I can.

3. Looking at Thailand’s economy, I think it might be really hard to them to save alot of money but i think have 6-7k SGD is already very good for most thais. Do ICA want NR show bank statement even during LTVP application?

@GTR1307 thanks bro for the inputs.

1) understand your situation and mine is somehow similar, did you apply PMLA and not successful? What is the next steps you took?

2) she did not have any sponsor that did any application of visa. I’m her first Singapore boyfriend and now we are in the midst of planning our marriage. I do plan to bring her to visit Singapore somewhere in Mid May but i am afraid ICA will reject her entry. Can anyone share any inputs on this?

@malcontent thanks for your inputs once again.

1) her source of income is managing a online store which she have enough for her rent and daily expenses. Her aunt live with her own family and she lives alone.

2) I have submitted PMLA again and emailed in my NoA for the past two years, our ROM dates and proof that I have a HDB ready this year. I wanted to let the officer in charge know that in any case they are worried i am not able to take care of my future spouse i am fully capable. I hope this help.

3) if everything else fail, I will really have to consider looking for a job in thailand because I really love my girlfriend and want to start a family soon.

MOCHS
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 969
Joined: Thu, 01 Aug 2019 8:43 pm
Answers: 3

Re: Need help regarding PMLA ltvp assessment

Post by MOCHS » Mon, 01 May 2023 7:50 am

Look, you can still ROM even if PMLA is rejected. No where in the ROM document says it is compulsory that you die die must have PMLA. Many citizens marry foreigners without one. It’s just that without PMLA:

1. LTVP will take up to 6 months to process instead of 6 weeks.

2. There is a chance LTVP might be rejected.

I personally knew a female SC friend whose spouse had PMLA rejected, ROM in SG, and then LTVP approved. But this is the one and only case I know of and it happened more than 7 years ago.

You are 100% sure she has never entered SG or work in SG before? You are certain she isn’t hiding anything from you?

And what did you answer for the PMLA? The questions in PMLA that can be flagged as suspicious will be whether the applicant has different name on passport and whether “did you receive financial compensation for PMLA” or something along that line.

Basically any questions you answer “Yes” for, go back and see what the question is about.

Your income is enough to support a spouse/family. Just that time you know each other is too short, her nationality has many cases of scam marriages in the past.

x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10073
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 4:06 pm
Location: Singapore

Re: Need help regarding PMLA ltvp assessment

Post by x9200 » Mon, 01 May 2023 8:41 am

if what she does selling online makes really her living and pays her bills, you should not say she is unemployed. She is self-employed.

Bottom line: wait for some time.
Optional: improve her job situation if needed.

User avatar
malcontent
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2857
Joined: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:52 am
Answers: 8
Location: Pulau Ujong

Re: Need help regarding PMLA ltvp assessment

Post by malcontent » Mon, 01 May 2023 11:29 am

I don’t know how Singapore evaluates the risks of marriage of convenience, but I helped my brother get his Filipino gf a K1 visa to bring her to the US and get married.

What we submitted in his case was a history of chats all the way back from the beginning - not all of them, but selected ones over time to show consistency. He also bought her some things and shipped it to her - we included proof of that. For the times they met, we included air tickets, photos together plus with family. They also included a signed statement that explained how they met, how their relationship evolved and how they had been in continuous daily contact, etc.
It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows - Epictetus

GTR1307
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 12:36 am

Re: Need help regarding PMLA ltvp assessment

Post by GTR1307 » Mon, 01 May 2023 2:42 pm

visionaryz wrote:
Mon, 01 May 2023 4:13 am

@GTR1307 thanks bro for the inputs.

1) understand your situation and mine is somehow similar, did you apply PMLA and not successful? What is the next steps you took?

2) she did not have any sponsor that did any application of visa. I’m her first Singapore boyfriend and now we are in the midst of planning our marriage. I do plan to bring her to visit Singapore somewhere in Mid May but i am afraid ICA will reject her entry. Can anyone share any inputs on this?
Hi, the similarities I see is between our spouse's income & education level.

But my PMLA did get approved.

A brief background about myself and my wife.
- Both of us are in our 30's now.
- I am a diploma holder & earn less than half of your mentioned income.
- My wife was an ex SG-WP holder & from the Nail salon/Beauty industry.
- When I applied PMLA we have known each other for a little over 3 years
- She was at-the-time unemployed at the point of PMLA application as she left her previous company so I was truthful to my application & state that she was unemployed.
- She dropped out during secondary school but was unable to locate any form of primary school education cert sort of proof so her I have selected "No formal education" under PMLA.

Therefore given the circumstances of financial & educational level of your gf. That is how I feel that your rejection was due to you knowing your gf not long enough.

In my honest opinion, if you are really in love.
- You can wait a little longer before applying PMLA again, or
- Get married & apply for LTVP without LLE (Not recommended)

I don't think there is a clear guideline how ICA evaluates individuals, just declare truthfully.

MOCHS
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 969
Joined: Thu, 01 Aug 2019 8:43 pm
Answers: 3

Re: Need help regarding PMLA ltvp assessment

Post by MOCHS » Mon, 01 May 2023 3:52 pm

malcontent wrote:
Mon, 01 May 2023 11:29 am
I don’t know how Singapore evaluates the risks of marriage of convenience, but I helped my brother get his Filipino gf a K1 visa to bring her to the US and get married.

What we submitted in his case was a history of chats all the way back from the beginning - not all of them, but selected ones over time to show consistency. He also bought her some things and shipped it to her - we included proof of that. For the times they met, we included air tickets, photos together plus with family. They also included a signed statement that explained how they met, how their relationship evolved and how they had been in continuous daily contact, etc.
That’s because the US requests that. SG does not. And with current technology, these can be deepfaked.

I can imagine ICA maybe looking through the social media pages for proof of relationship? I know US customs did look through my LinkedIn profile just before my global entry interview with them and I did not list any social media accounts on the application form. They can search for you if they want to.

User avatar
malcontent
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2857
Joined: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:52 am
Answers: 8
Location: Pulau Ujong

Re: Need help regarding PMLA ltvp assessment

Post by malcontent » Mon, 01 May 2023 4:23 pm

MOCHS wrote:
Mon, 01 May 2023 3:52 pm
malcontent wrote:
Mon, 01 May 2023 11:29 am
I don’t know how Singapore evaluates the risks of marriage of convenience, but I helped my brother get his Filipino gf a K1 visa to bring her to the US and get married.

What we submitted in his case was a history of chats all the way back from the beginning - not all of them, but selected ones over time to show consistency. He also bought her some things and shipped it to her - we included proof of that. For the times they met, we included air tickets, photos together plus with family. They also included a signed statement that explained how they met, how their relationship evolved and how they had been in continuous daily contact, etc.
That’s because the US requests that. SG does not. And with current technology, these can be deepfaked.

I can imagine ICA maybe looking through the social media pages for proof of relationship? I know US customs did look through my LinkedIn profile just before my global entry interview with them and I did not list any social media accounts on the application form. They can search for you if they want to.
Agree, and the US has a 2 year probationary period (conditional green card), during which they can revoke and send the spouse packing. It’s not perfect, but there are safeguards.
It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows - Epictetus

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “PR, Citizenship, Passes & Visas for Foreigners”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest