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Do new citizens have to serve NS?

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smoulder
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Re: Do new citizens have to serve NS?

Post by smoulder » Wed, 26 Apr 2023 8:49 am

Having said that, I'm surprised no one is talking about how the poster is planning for something (obtaining PR and citizenship) that is known to be highly uncertain. Additionally, the attitude seems to be upfront to grab the privileges but avoid any "liabilities"... Exactly the thing that the government doesn't want to see.

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Re: Do new citizens have to serve NS?

Post by jalanjalan » Wed, 26 Apr 2023 10:51 am

smoulder wrote:
Wed, 26 Apr 2023 8:49 am
Additionally, the attitude seems to be upfront to grab the privileges but avoid any "liabilities"... Exactly the thing that the government doesn't want to see.
Partly why I linked the second and third points in my first response. Hope he takes the hints.

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Re: Do new citizens have to serve NS?

Post by NYY1 » Wed, 26 Apr 2023 4:36 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Wed, 26 Apr 2023 8:20 am
The boys are second gen PR in your case (my {PR} friends who had sons = 2nd gen). No escape for them. For a first gen student who is not under his parents sponsorship who then becomes PR who then becomes SC I don't believe they are liable for NS. Very rare (these are normally boys sent over here under study mama's or into boarding hostels on their own under a student pass).
I believe they are still liable. Perhaps at one point they were not, but I don't think that is currently the case.

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Re: Do new citizens have to serve NS?

Post by Lisafuller » Wed, 26 Apr 2023 10:36 pm

NYY1 wrote:
Wed, 26 Apr 2023 7:39 am
PNGMK wrote:
Tue, 25 Apr 2023 10:49 pm
NYY1 wrote:
Tue, 25 Apr 2023 9:19 am

If one applies under the Student route, he is liable at the PR stage. I don't specifically see the Students exempted when applying for SC? Student to Uni to PTS would avoid NS if you can afford the foreign fees (at all levels of schooling).

https://www.ica.gov.sg/reside/PR/apply

Male applicants who are granted PR status as a Foreign Student or under their parents’ sponsorship are required to register for NS upon reaching 16½ years old and will be scheduled for enlistment at the earliest opportunity upon reaching 18 years old. MINDEF allows students to attain educational qualifications up to the 'A' Levels certificate, the polytechnic diploma or an equivalent before they are required to serve NS. They are enlisted at the earliest opportunity when they have finished such courses, or after turning 18 years old, whichever is later. MINDEF does not grant deferment for university studies, regardless of whether such studies have begun. All male applicants are required to access www.cmpb.gov.sg for information on NS deferment, pre-enlistment process and Exit Permit requirements, before proceeding with the application.
The thing is the boys don't stay for NS if they are not invited for PR. It's the usual Singapore stuff up.
OK, I interpreted your original statement as students who come here and become SCs (first PRs) via the designated student tracks. There are undoubtedly foreign students that receive many years of MOE education here but do not become PR/SC as students and later obtain these statuses via the working route (and never have to serve).
I believe that, given the choice, most prospective PR/SC candidates would choose to wait a little longer in order to avoid serving.

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Re: Do new citizens have to serve NS?

Post by Lisafuller » Wed, 26 Apr 2023 10:37 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Wed, 26 Apr 2023 8:20 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Wed, 26 Apr 2023 12:02 am
NYY1 wrote:
Tue, 25 Apr 2023 9:19 am

If one applies under the Student route, he is liable at the PR stage. I don't specifically see the Students exempted when applying for SC? Student to Uni to PTS would avoid NS if you can afford the foreign fees (at all levels of schooling).

https://www.ica.gov.sg/reside/PR/apply

Male applicants who are granted PR status as a Foreign Student or under their parents’ sponsorship are required to register for NS upon reaching 16½ years old and will be scheduled for enlistment at the earliest opportunity upon reaching 18 years old. MINDEF allows students to attain educational qualifications up to the 'A' Levels certificate, the polytechnic diploma or an equivalent before they are required to serve NS. They are enlisted at the earliest opportunity when they have finished such courses, or after turning 18 years old, whichever is later. MINDEF does not grant deferment for university studies, regardless of whether such studies have begun. All male applicants are required to access www.cmpb.gov.sg for information on NS deferment, pre-enlistment process and Exit Permit requirements, before proceeding with the application.
That sounds more like what I know to be the case, I remember a few of my friends who had sons who ended up becoming citizens/PRs, and ended up having to serve.
The boys are second gen PR in your case (my {PR} friends who had sons = 2nd gen). No escape for them. For a first gen student who is not under his parents sponsorship who then becomes PR who then becomes SC I don't believe they are liable for NS. Very rare (these are normally boys sent over here under study mama's or into boarding hostels on their own under a student pass).
This was the case for one of my daughters friends from China. Both parents and siblings are still in China while he was the only one living and studying in Singapore. I'm not sure if he was called to serve though.

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Re: Do new citizens have to serve NS?

Post by Lisafuller » Wed, 26 Apr 2023 10:38 pm

smoulder wrote:
Wed, 26 Apr 2023 8:45 am
A couple of years ago, I was told by an ICA officer that a male PR (under the FTS scheme) under the age of 40 *might* be asked by MINDEF to serve NS, if the country needs it. It therefore stands to reason that a new citizen under the age of 40 might also be asked to do so if it's needed. However, the thing is that, there are no known cases of this actually happening. The ICA officer did mention that too.
I believe that, it's the same reason why able-bodied men have to continue coming down for reservist.

Speaking of which, does anyone have any experience with that? What does that even entail?

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Re: Do new citizens have to serve NS?

Post by Lisafuller » Wed, 26 Apr 2023 10:39 pm

smoulder wrote:
Wed, 26 Apr 2023 8:49 am
Having said that, I'm surprised no one is talking about how the poster is planning for something (obtaining PR and citizenship) that is known to be highly uncertain. Additionally, the attitude seems to be upfront to grab the privileges but avoid any "liabilities"... Exactly the thing that the government doesn't want to see.
I do think it was pointed out that self-serving applications should be avoided. I definitely agree with you, I'm sure the government will be able to see through people like this, so they may not have much luck with applications.

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Re: Do new citizens have to serve NS?

Post by Lisafuller » Wed, 26 Apr 2023 10:41 pm

NYY1 wrote:
Wed, 26 Apr 2023 4:36 pm
PNGMK wrote:
Wed, 26 Apr 2023 8:20 am
The boys are second gen PR in your case (my {PR} friends who had sons = 2nd gen). No escape for them. For a first gen student who is not under his parents sponsorship who then becomes PR who then becomes SC I don't believe they are liable for NS. Very rare (these are normally boys sent over here under study mama's or into boarding hostels on their own under a student pass).
I believe they are still liable. Perhaps at one point they were not, but I don't think that is currently the case.
I believe that in times of crisis, every citizen/PR who is able-bodied and of reasonable age will be called on to serve, regardless of how they obtained their PR/SC.

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Re: Do new citizens have to serve NS?

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 27 Apr 2023 12:18 am

This is a fact. I don't know where I read it years ago It might have been on the old Mindef site or in the constitution. This is why there are no 'exemptions' from NS, only waivers. Waivers can be rescinded when ever it's necessary.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: Do new citizens have to serve NS?

Post by NYY1 » Thu, 27 Apr 2023 6:39 am

Lisafuller wrote:
Wed, 26 Apr 2023 10:41 pm
NYY1 wrote:
Wed, 26 Apr 2023 4:36 pm
PNGMK wrote:
Wed, 26 Apr 2023 8:20 am
The boys are second gen PR in your case (my {PR} friends who had sons = 2nd gen). No escape for them. For a first gen student who is not under his parents sponsorship who then becomes PR who then becomes SC I don't believe they are liable for NS. Very rare (these are normally boys sent over here under study mama's or into boarding hostels on their own under a student pass).
I believe they are still liable. Perhaps at one point they were not, but I don't think that is currently the case.
I believe that in times of crisis, every citizen/PR who is able-bodied and of reasonable age will be called on to serve, regardless of how they obtained their PR/SC.
Yes, but that's not what we are talking about. The question is will they (student to PR to SC via Student Schemes) will be enlisted at 18 yrs old (plus applicable deferments for eligible studies).

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Re: Do new citizens have to serve NS?

Post by NYY1 » Thu, 27 Apr 2023 7:14 am

Lisafuller wrote:
Wed, 26 Apr 2023 10:36 pm
NYY1 wrote:
Wed, 26 Apr 2023 7:39 am
PNGMK wrote:
Tue, 25 Apr 2023 10:49 pm

The thing is the boys don't stay for NS if they are not invited for PR. It's the usual Singapore stuff up.
OK, I interpreted your original statement as students who come here and become SCs (first PRs) via the designated student tracks. There are undoubtedly foreign students that receive many years of MOE education here but do not become PR/SC as students and later obtain these statuses via the working route (and never have to serve).
I believe that, given the choice, most prospective PR/SC candidates would choose to wait a little longer in order to avoid serving.
Your statement is not untrue, but it really depends on which passport you are currently holding (you still have a choice in this scenario). Also, if you've ever had to live in a country on short-term visas (with no spousal support), one may feel differently about doing what you can to gain more certainty.
The student status is generally safe everywhere, but you are usually under the gun to find and hold employment thereafter, and sometimes you up against additional obstacles (relatively speaking). Those who are talented will do fine, but it seems like many here dismiss this (probably because they've never experienced it).

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Re: Do new citizens have to serve NS?

Post by jalanjalan » Thu, 27 Apr 2023 8:57 am

Lisafuller wrote:
Wed, 26 Apr 2023 10:38 pm
smoulder wrote:
Wed, 26 Apr 2023 8:45 am
A couple of years ago, I was told by an ICA officer that a male PR (under the FTS scheme) under the age of 40 *might* be asked by MINDEF to serve NS, if the country needs it. It therefore stands to reason that a new citizen under the age of 40 might also be asked to do so if it's needed. However, the thing is that, there are no known cases of this actually happening. The ICA officer did mention that too.
I believe that, it's the same reason why able-bodied men have to continue coming down for reservist.

Speaking of which, does anyone have any experience with that? What does that even entail?
Do you mean reservist? Yes, my spouse did it. He was in combat engineers and did engineer things. He had fun, frankly.

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Re: Do new citizens have to serve NS?

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 27 Apr 2023 10:39 pm

NYY1 wrote:
Thu, 27 Apr 2023 6:39 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Wed, 26 Apr 2023 10:41 pm
NYY1 wrote:
Wed, 26 Apr 2023 4:36 pm

I believe they are still liable. Perhaps at one point they were not, but I don't think that is currently the case.
I believe that in times of crisis, every citizen/PR who is able-bodied and of reasonable age will be called on to serve, regardless of how they obtained their PR/SC.
Yes, but that's not what we are talking about. The question is will they (student to PR to SC via Student Schemes) will be enlisted at 18 yrs old (plus applicable deferments for eligible studies).
I interpreted liability as having to serve at any point as a citizen/PR, not necessarily NS.

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Re: Do new citizens have to serve NS?

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 27 Apr 2023 10:40 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Thu, 27 Apr 2023 12:18 am
This is a fact. I don't know where I read it years ago It might have been on the old Mindef site or in the constitution. This is why there are no 'exemptions' from NS, only waivers. Waivers can be rescinded when ever it's necessary.
And what circumstance would that be? I'm assuming waivers are only issued as a last resort, when men are unfit to serve.

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Re: Do new citizens have to serve NS?

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 27 Apr 2023 10:41 pm

NYY1 wrote:
Thu, 27 Apr 2023 7:14 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Wed, 26 Apr 2023 10:36 pm
NYY1 wrote:
Wed, 26 Apr 2023 7:39 am

OK, I interpreted your original statement as students who come here and become SCs (first PRs) via the designated student tracks. There are undoubtedly foreign students that receive many years of MOE education here but do not become PR/SC as students and later obtain these statuses via the working route (and never have to serve).
I believe that, given the choice, most prospective PR/SC candidates would choose to wait a little longer in order to avoid serving.
Your statement is not untrue, but it really depends on which passport you are currently holding (you still have a choice in this scenario). Also, if you've ever had to live in a country on short-term visas (with no spousal support), one may feel differently about doing what you can to gain more certainty.
The student status is generally safe everywhere, but you are usually under the gun to find and hold employment thereafter, and sometimes you up against additional obstacles (relatively speaking). Those who are talented will do fine, but it seems like many here dismiss this (probably because they've never experienced it).
Fair enough, I can't imagine the stress of being on a short term visa.

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