Renouncing PR and SRS withdrawal

[sherlock101]

Hi,

I am an EP holder aged 40. Living in SG for 7 years with wife, who is pregnant - expected delivery (a son) in a couple of months.

We plan to move back to our home country in 7-8 years. Definitely not planning to retire in SG.

We want to apply for PR in Singapore for job security and lower taxes on property purchase.
I am also thinking of opening an SRS account (with DBS) to save on taxes.

A few questions - assuming we will get PR when we apply:
- Do I need to be physically present in Singapore at the retirement age to withdraw from SRS account? I will certainly be back in my home country by then
- I will need to renounce my son’s PR (and perhaps be forced to renounce my own PR too) when we inevitably move back to home country in a few years. Would the government allow me to return to SG post retirement (on a tourist visa) to collect my SRS funds?
- Does it make sense to apply for our PR right away (before the child’s birth), and have my son live with us on DP?

[malcontent]

Hi,

I am an EP holder aged 40. Living in SG for 7 years with wife, who is pregnant - expected delivery (a son) in a couple of months.

We plan to move back to our home country in 7-8 years. Definitely not planning to retire in SG.

We want to apply for PR in Singapore for job security and lower taxes on property purchase.
I am also thinking of opening an SRS account (with DBS) to save on taxes.

A few questions - assuming we will get PR when we apply:
- Do I need to be physically present in Singapore at the retirement age to withdraw from SRS account? I will certainly be back in my home country by then
- I will need to renounce my son’s PR (and perhaps be forced to renounce my own PR too) when we inevitably move back to home country in a few years. Would the government allow me to return to SG post retirement (on a tourist visa) to collect my SRS funds?
- Does it make sense to apply for our PR right away (before the child’s birth), and have my son live with us on DP?

Am I right to assume you do not qualify for lower taxes on a property purchase through these exemptions?

https://www.iras.gov.sg/taxes/stamp-dut ... nts-(ftas)

Have you thought about what would you do if property prices tank in 7-8 years? Will you be in a financial position to hold on to the property and rent it out after you leave if it comes to that?

As for SRS, staying on an EP would allow you to withdraw in full after 10 years with no penalty - this is often highly advantageous to those who do not plan to retire in SG, since you won’t be spreading the withdrawals over 10 years at resident tax rates anyway.

I am not 100% certain whether SRS withdrawal would require an in-person visit — logic would say no, but banks here can be unexpectedly rigid at times. Also, things change as years go by, so I haven’t even bothered to look into it. I will cross that bridge when I get there. But as for visiting Singapore, renouncing is not an offense… you can definitely visit as a tourist.

One last consideration before you take the plunge into SRS, depending on what your investment objectives are, the tax savings might be eaten up by higher fees due to the restrictions on what you can invest SRS in (local investment options usually come with higher fees, which can really add up over the years).

Bottom line, there is a lot to consider, and becoming a PR is a big step that is typically taken by those who intend to sink roots for the long term.

[NYY1]

Hi,

I am an EP holder aged 40. Living in SG for 7 years with wife, who is pregnant - expected delivery (a son) in a couple of months.

We plan to move back to our home country in 7-8 years. Definitely not planning to retire in SG.

We want to apply for PR in Singapore for job security and lower taxes on property purchase.
I am also thinking of opening an SRS account (with DBS) to save on taxes.

A few questions - assuming we will get PR when we apply:
- Do I need to be physically present in Singapore at the retirement age to withdraw from SRS account? I will certainly be back in my home country by then
- I will need to renounce my son’s PR (and perhaps be forced to renounce my own PR too) when we inevitably move back to home country in a few years. Would the government allow me to return to SG post retirement (on a tourist visa) to collect my SRS funds?
- Does it make sense to apply for our PR right away (before the child’s birth), and have my son live with us on DP?

Please don't bother applying. Just rent and then go back to your home country when the time is right. Let someone else that truly wants to be here benefit from Singapore PR. Plenty of ASEAN applicants in the O bucket that need to compete in this space (or perhaps some European-European couple that wants to apply in the future but it becomes harder because these type of applicants are known to pack up and leave after taking benefits).

Of course, we are in a self-centered world where everyone thinks they are so great and special that they only consider the benefits to them, so I'm sure many people will say "why not."

[PNGMK]

Hi,

I am an EP holder aged 40. Living in SG for 7 years with wife, who is pregnant - expected delivery (a son) in a couple of months.

We plan to move back to our home country in 7-8 years. Definitely not planning to retire in SG.

We want to apply for PR in Singapore for job security and lower taxes on property purchase.
I am also thinking of opening an SRS account (with DBS) to save on taxes.

A few questions - assuming we will get PR when we apply:
- Do I need to be physically present in Singapore at the retirement age to withdraw from SRS account? I will certainly be back in my home country by then
- I will need to renounce my son’s PR (and perhaps be forced to renounce my own PR too) when we inevitably move back to home country in a few years. Would the government allow me to return to SG post retirement (on a tourist visa) to collect my SRS funds?
- Does it make sense to apply for our PR right away (before the child’s birth), and have my son live with us on DP?

Please don't bother applying. Just rent and then go back to your home country when the time is right. Let someone else that truly wants to be here benefit from Singapore PR. Plenty of ASEAN applicants in the O bucket that need to compete in this space (or perhaps some European-European couple that wants to apply in the future but it becomes harder because these type of applicants are known to pack up and leave after taking benefits).

Of course, we are in a self-centered world where everyone thinks they are so great and special that they only consider the benefits to them, so I'm sure many people will say "why not."

To be fair to Sherlock101 this is well trodden path but one that is becoming much harder. The gahmen has made it clear that PR is mean to be a pathway to SC but they also accept there is a yield of about 50% (i.e only 50% of PR become SC ultimately).

[malcontent]

Hi,

I am an EP holder aged 40. Living in SG for 7 years with wife, who is pregnant - expected delivery (a son) in a couple of months.

We plan to move back to our home country in 7-8 years. Definitely not planning to retire in SG.

We want to apply for PR in Singapore for job security and lower taxes on property purchase.
I am also thinking of opening an SRS account (with DBS) to save on taxes.

A few questions - assuming we will get PR when we apply:
- Do I need to be physically present in Singapore at the retirement age to withdraw from SRS account? I will certainly be back in my home country by then
- I will need to renounce my son’s PR (and perhaps be forced to renounce my own PR too) when we inevitably move back to home country in a few years. Would the government allow me to return to SG post retirement (on a tourist visa) to collect my SRS funds?
- Does it make sense to apply for our PR right away (before the child’s birth), and have my son live with us on DP?

Please don't bother applying. Just rent and then go back to your home country when the time is right. Let someone else that truly wants to be here benefit from Singapore PR. Plenty of ASEAN applicants in the O bucket that need to compete in this space (or perhaps some European-European couple that wants to apply in the future but it becomes harder because these type of applicants are known to pack up and leave after taking benefits).

Of course, we are in a self-centered world where everyone thinks they are so great and special that they only consider the benefits to them, so I'm sure many people will say "why not."

Then again, we have seen many cases like this - been here for 7 years, plan to go back in another 7-8 years… end up staying for good (and regret not applying for PR sooner).

At least if you apply for PR now and do decide you want to stay, you have a chance at SC for the whole family before your kids are school aged, which is kind of important if there is any chance you might stay.

Blame the sharper differentiation between PR/SC because it drives people to either be “all in” or “all out” — if you choose wrong now, you might not be able to afford the consequences later (school fees, etc).

[NYY1]

To be fair to Sherlock101 this is well trodden path but one that is becoming much harder. The gahmen has made it clear that PR is mean to be a pathway to SC but they also accept there is a yield of about 50% (i.e only 50% of PR become SC ultimately).

Yeah, can't blame someone for deciding SG is not for them, finding something better (job/immigration elsewhere), or increasing options (apply now, can always leave). At least the initial intent was genuine. That doesn't seem to be the case here, but it is what it is.

Anyways, even among the more recently issued PRs (2010 onwards), I think a) many spouses of SC and b) some parents of young kids that ultimately convert to SC will be slow to switch. Even some applicants from neighboring countries may be hesitant to convert if they think working here and retiring there is a better option.

[NYY1]

Then again, we have seen many cases like this - been here for 7 years, plan to go back in another 7-8 years… end up staying for good (and regret not applying for PR sooner).

At least if you apply for PR now and do decide you want to stay, you have a chance at SC for the whole family before your kids are school aged, which is kind of important if there is any chance you might stay.

Blame the sharper differentiation between PR/SC because it drives people to either be “all in” or “all out” — if you choose wrong now, you might not be able to afford the consequences later (school fees, etc).

For the first paragraph, sure one can apply to increase their options. As I said, that doesn't seem to be the case here, but it is what it is.

As for schooling (and becoming an SC before kids are school aged), "important" is about the P1 Registration system and whether one can enroll in (or at least apply for) the more popular schools?

Primary school fees, whether SC or PR, are very very low (the gap can widen as one progresses to secondary/JC).

[Lisafuller]

Hi,

I am an EP holder aged 40. Living in SG for 7 years with wife, who is pregnant - expected delivery (a son) in a couple of months.

We plan to move back to our home country in 7-8 years. Definitely not planning to retire in SG.

We want to apply for PR in Singapore for job security and lower taxes on property purchase.
I am also thinking of opening an SRS account (with DBS) to save on taxes.

A few questions - assuming we will get PR when we apply:
- Do I need to be physically present in Singapore at the retirement age to withdraw from SRS account? I will certainly be back in my home country by then
- I will need to renounce my son’s PR (and perhaps be forced to renounce my own PR too) when we inevitably move back to home country in a few years. Would the government allow me to return to SG post retirement (on a tourist visa) to collect my SRS funds?
- Does it make sense to apply for our PR right away (before the child’s birth), and have my son live with us on DP?

Please don't bother applying. Just rent and then go back to your home country when the time is right. Let someone else that truly wants to be here benefit from Singapore PR. Plenty of ASEAN applicants in the O bucket that need to compete in this space (or perhaps some European-European couple that wants to apply in the future but it becomes harder because these type of applicants are known to pack up and leave after taking benefits).

Of course, we are in a self-centered world where everyone thinks they are so great and special that they only consider the benefits to them, so I'm sure many people will say "why not."

I agree, getting PR is already so cutthroat at this point. Why take away a spot from somebody else?

[Lisafuller]

Hi,

I am an EP holder aged 40. Living in SG for 7 years with wife, who is pregnant - expected delivery (a son) in a couple of months.

We plan to move back to our home country in 7-8 years. Definitely not planning to retire in SG.

We want to apply for PR in Singapore for job security and lower taxes on property purchase.
I am also thinking of opening an SRS account (with DBS) to save on taxes.

A few questions - assuming we will get PR when we apply:
- Do I need to be physically present in Singapore at the retirement age to withdraw from SRS account? I will certainly be back in my home country by then
- I will need to renounce my son’s PR (and perhaps be forced to renounce my own PR too) when we inevitably move back to home country in a few years. Would the government allow me to return to SG post retirement (on a tourist visa) to collect my SRS funds?
- Does it make sense to apply for our PR right away (before the child’s birth), and have my son live with us on DP?

Please don't bother applying. Just rent and then go back to your home country when the time is right. Let someone else that truly wants to be here benefit from Singapore PR. Plenty of ASEAN applicants in the O bucket that need to compete in this space (or perhaps some European-European couple that wants to apply in the future but it becomes harder because these type of applicants are known to pack up and leave after taking benefits).

Of course, we are in a self-centered world where everyone thinks they are so great and special that they only consider the benefits to them, so I'm sure many people will say "why not."

To be fair to Sherlock101 this is well trodden path but one that is becoming much harder. The gahmen has made it clear that PR is mean to be a pathway to SC but they also accept there is a yield of about 50% (i.e only 50% of PR become SC ultimately).

Maybe so, but self-serving applications certainly shouldn't be encouraged.

[Lisafuller]

To be fair to Sherlock101 this is well trodden path but one that is becoming much harder. The gahmen has made it clear that PR is mean to be a pathway to SC but they also accept there is a yield of about 50% (i.e only 50% of PR become SC ultimately).

Yeah, can't blame someone for deciding SG is not for them, finding something better (job/immigration elsewhere), or increasing options (apply now, can always leave). At least the initial intent was genuine. That doesn't seem to be the case here, but it is what it is.

Anyways, even among the more recently issued PRs (2010 onwards), I think a) many spouses of SC and b) some parents of young kids that ultimately convert to SC will be slow to switch. Even some applicants from neighboring countries may be hesitant to convert if they think working here and retiring there is a better option.

20 years and yet to switch.

[Lisafuller]

Then again, we have seen many cases like this - been here for 7 years, plan to go back in another 7-8 years… end up staying for good (and regret not applying for PR sooner).

At least if you apply for PR now and do decide you want to stay, you have a chance at SC for the whole family before your kids are school aged, which is kind of important if there is any chance you might stay.

Blame the sharper differentiation between PR/SC because it drives people to either be “all in” or “all out” — if you choose wrong now, you might not be able to afford the consequences later (school fees, etc).

For the first paragraph, sure one can apply to increase their options. As I said, that doesn't seem to be the case here, but it is what it is.

As for schooling (and becoming an SC before kids are school aged), "important" is about the P1 Registration system and whether one can enroll in (or at least apply for) the more popular schools?

Primary school fees, whether SC or PR, are very very low (the gap can widen as one progresses to secondary/JC).

Yeah, as far as schooling goes, you only feel a difference if you're a non-ASEAN foreigner.

[PNGMK]

Please don't bother applying. Just rent and then go back to your home country when the time is right. Let someone else that truly wants to be here benefit from Singapore PR. Plenty of ASEAN applicants in the O bucket that need to compete in this space (or perhaps some European-European couple that wants to apply in the future but it becomes harder because these type of applicants are known to pack up and leave after taking benefits).

Of course, we are in a self-centered world where everyone thinks they are so great and special that they only consider the benefits to them, so I'm sure many people will say "why not."

To be fair to Sherlock101 this is well trodden path but one that is becoming much harder. The gahmen has made it clear that PR is mean to be a pathway to SC but they also accept there is a yield of about 50% (i.e only 50% of PR become SC ultimately).

Maybe so, but self-serving applications certainly shouldn't be encouraged.

I routinely point out to friends who talk about taking up PR that it is ultimately for them to become SC. It's not really made apparent by the ICA etc.

[Lisafuller]

To be fair to Sherlock101 this is well trodden path but one that is becoming much harder. The gahmen has made it clear that PR is mean to be a pathway to SC but they also accept there is a yield of about 50% (i.e only 50% of PR become SC ultimately).

Maybe so, but self-serving applications certainly shouldn't be encouraged.

I routinely point out to friends who talk about taking up PR that it is ultimately for them to become SC. It's not really made apparent by the ICA etc.

Yep, I feel like it's implicit though. At any rate, it should be understood that PR should only be taken for the right reasons. You don't necessarily have to become a citizen, but you should have every intention to stay here and contribute for years to come.

[PNGMK]

Maybe so, but self-serving applications certainly shouldn't be encouraged.

I routinely point out to friends who talk about taking up PR that it is ultimately for them to become SC. It's not really made apparent by the ICA etc.

Yep, I feel like it's implicit though. At any rate, it should be understood that PR should only be taken for the right reasons. You don't necessarily have to become a citizen, but you should have every intention to stay here and contribute for years to come.

Well actually it's been explicitly stated but it's not common knowledge.

[malcontent]

I am still a little conflicted about this one.

Mainly because the intent of PR changed without providing a reasonable alternative. Over that same time period, employers cut expat benefits. I guess we can say “vote with your feet” and leave, but it’s not always that simple.

I am fortunate; despite remaining on an EP my employer has always provided a substitute for CPF. As you can probably imagine, over the 27 years, I’d easily have lost out on over a half a million dollars (considering both employer contributions and CPF interest). I can’t imagine how others can deal with it. My BIL is one of them, over 10 years on EP and no CPF or substitute.