Colleague Pay Discrepancy

[Addadude]

A former client of mine once told me, "In business, you don't get what's fair. You get what you negotiate." And your relationship with your employer is a business relationship.

Okay. I think we've all flogged that thought to death on this thread. And we are all pretty much in agreement.

But I have one more thought for the OP: Were you reasonably happy with your salary before you discovered how much your colleague was getting paid? If you were okay with it, does knowing your colleague is earning more make your salary any less than what it is?

Sometimes ignorance is bliss...

[PNGMK]

Also 8k is pretty crap pay these days.

I'd consider an expat junior level salary to be around 10k and jumping pretty quick to 20k and topping out at around 50k for a VP level position in any commercial business. I will exclude International Schools, NGO's, embassy jobs and general service roles but if you're in a company making money that's where you should be at regardless of whether it's finance, oil and gas, manufacturing, sales and distro etc.

if you're really an "aussie in singapore" you've sold yourself short unfortunately.

[Lisafuller]

Hi guys,

I recently discovered (unintentionally) that my colleague in the exact same role as me has a base salary which is quite a bit larger than mine (SGD 8,000 vs SGD 11,500 per month). He is 5 years older than me, same nationality, and certainly less competent in the role.

Needless to say this is totally unfair and makes me feel very bitter and undervalued.

Do you think I am within my rights to be upfront with my manager and tell him I am aware of the discrepancy, and explain to him how I feel about it?

I think the DADT culture surrounding salaries in Singapore is absolutely awful. It's just a way for companies to underpay their staff without any repercussions.

That being said, a lot of times salary confidentiality is contained in employment contracts, so bringing this up with HR, or your colleague may be seen as having violated these terms and not only result in no salary change, but rather a possible termination.

On the other hand, this is certainly unfair so I can understand your frustration.

[Lisafuller]

Also 8k is pretty crap pay these days.

I'd consider an expat junior level salary to be around 10k and jumping pretty quick to 20k and topping out at around 50k for a VP level position in any commercial business. I will exclude International Schools, NGO's, embassy jobs and general service roles but if you're in a company making money that's where you should be at regardless of whether it's finance, oil and gas, manufacturing, sales and distro etc.

if you're really an "aussie in singapore" you've sold yourself short unfortunately.

Agree, 8K is startlingly low. Something a lot of jobseekers forget is that there's always room for negotiation when it comes to discussing salary. What they offer you is never what they're truly willing to pay.

[Lisafuller]

Hi guys,

I recently discovered (unintentionally) that my colleague in the exact same role as me has a base salary which is quite a bit larger than mine (SGD 8,000 vs SGD 11,500 per month). He is 5 years older than me, same nationality, and certainly less competent in the role.

Needless to say this is totally unfair and makes me feel very bitter and undervalued.

Do you think I am within my rights to be upfront with my manager and tell him I am aware of the discrepancy, and explain to him how I feel about it?

How long have both of you been with the company? His age is irrelevant as is his nationality. What also matters (or not) is how long he's been with the company and did he hold out for more money and not short-sell himself when he got hired initially. If none of the above, maybe you have a personality clash with your supervisor/manager. There's lot's of reasons as to why the discrepancy may exists. If you run to the management like a pouting child, they may view you as a problem child. Then you might not be making anything there. Just sayin'.

If you think they are being unfair, just resign before you stick your foot in your mouth and get fired. They can pay anybody any amount the person is willing to accept. You are not in Australia working in a Union Shop. Here you carry your own weight and not a union contract. Output isn't the only thing that keeps you on the job. Lot's of other factors are weighed as well, not always directly work output related.

What will happen when you confront your manager and he tells you there ISN'T any discrepancy and each person is paid what he is worth overall to the company. Then how?

That would certainly be embarrassing. Another alternative is to use this position to leverage a new offer elsewhere.

[Lisafuller]

Hi guys,

I recently discovered (unintentionally) that my colleague in the exact same role as me has a base salary which is quite a bit larger than mine (SGD 8,000 vs SGD 11,500 per month). He is 5 years older than me, same nationality, and certainly less competent in the role.

Needless to say this is totally unfair and makes me feel very bitter and undervalued.

Do you think I am within my rights to be upfront with my manager and tell him I am aware of the discrepancy, and explain to him how I feel about it?

How long have both of you been with the company? His age is irrelevant as is his nationality. What also matters (or not) is how long he's been with the company and did he hold out for more money and not short-sell himself when he got hired initially. If none of the above, maybe you have a personality clash with your supervisor/manager. There's lot's of reasons as to why the discrepancy may exists. If you run to the management like a pouting child, they may view you as a problem child. Then you might not be making anything there. Just sayin'.

If you think they are being unfair, just resign before you stick your foot in your mouth and get fired. They can pay anybody any amount the person is willing to accept. You are not in Australia working in a Union Shop. Here you carry your own weight and not a union contract. Output isn't the only thing that keeps you on the job. Lot's of other factors are weighed as well, not always directly work output related.

What will happen when you confront your manager and he tells you there ISN'T any discrepancy and each person is paid what he is worth overall to the company. Then how?

Thanks for the feedback. I have been at the company for a few months longer than him (but fairly similar). Evidently he did hold out and negotiate harder than I did (which I do not personally begrudge him for), but now I know he was able to negotiate that salary, why shouldn't I attempt to do the same? After all, knowledge is power right?

Definitely not a personality thing. I have a great relationship with my manager and he respects me. He just hired me at a 'bargain' as I was naive at negotiating (not his fault either), hence why I am asking if I should attempt to re-negotiate now (or at my next pay review).

I do not want to quit as I really enjoy the job. To be clear, my intention was never to 'confront' my manager and act like a spoiled child. Of course I would approach in a professional and sincere manner, but my question was more to the point of: is it permissible to reference the salary of a co-worker in a pay review?

The problem here is that your salary at the time of hiring has already been set. You didn't negotiate so you've lost out. What you CAN do is make a case for yourself at your next performance review for why you should receive a raise. During this conversation, you might want to inquire about the salary of other contemporaries, and if they are willing to be transparent, which is unlikely but possible, you can use this knowledge to leverage a raise.

[Lisafuller]

Basically it just means if HR is going to hire you they are going to pay you what YOU think you're worth. It's not HR's job to find their payroll pain threshold but to only pay what it takes for the applicant to sign on the dotted line. Therefore it cannot be blamed on HR if you subsequently learned you lowballed yourself.

Well said. HR pays what you think you're worth. It's a hard dance to do as you ask for too little and you sell yourself short, but ask for too much, and they may move in another direction.

[Lisafuller]

Unfortunately in most companies, once you mention you're unhappy with your salary, irreversible damage is done. You're now an employee who is unsatisfied and uncommitted. Yes, it's unfair, but your only chance of a serious salary negotiation is at time of hiring.

Completely agree, a better approach is to highlight instances of exemplary performance/positive client or superior feedback in order to substantiate why you might be worth a performance based raise.

[Lisafuller]

Unfortunately in most companies, once you mention you're unhappy with your salary, irreversible damage is done. You're now an employee who is unsatisfied and uncommitted. Yes, it's unfair, but your only chance of a serious salary negotiation is at time of hiring.

It's interesting you say that the time of hiring is the only time to negotiate salary. My thought process is that if they can afford to pay him that salary, then why wouldn't they be willing to pay me the same considering I am a better performer?

There are definitely opportunities to renegotiate salary during end of year reviews. However, you hold the most power at the time of hiring. If you don't negotiate yourself to a decent base, that will be what you have to work with later on.

[PNGMK]

Unfortunately in most companies, once you mention you're unhappy with your salary, irreversible damage is done. You're now an employee who is unsatisfied and uncommitted. Yes, it's unfair, but your only chance of a serious salary negotiation is at time of hiring.

It's interesting you say that the time of hiring is the only time to negotiate salary. My thought process is that if they can afford to pay him that salary, then why wouldn't they be willing to pay me the same considering I am a better performer?

There are definitely opportunities to renegotiate salary during end of year reviews. However, you hold the most power at the time of hiring. If you don't negotiate yourself to a decent base, that will be what you have to work with later on.

Lisa and TiktikityTock are correct. It's very hard to negotiate a significant jump for an employee without extenuating circumstances. What's your manager going to say to the board or president? "Oh he found out he was underpaid because he snooped?". No, what he needs to be able to say is "AussieInSingapore has taken on more roles, out performed by XX%, sold YYMM and is someone I cannot afford to lose. I need to promote him to senior AussieInSingapore above UselessinSingapore and pay him 30% more in order to retain him, I'm also considering replacing UslessinSingapore as he is underperforming".

[BBCDoc]

If you have in demand skill sets, definitely explore outside.

In my industry, there is a niche department that is at the whim of industry rotations through the companies to swing pay rises.

Certain sensitive government areas mandate only Singaporean citizens are permitted, no exceptions.

Once someone is trained for that area, they can keep hopping around!


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[PNGMK]

Also 8k is pretty crap pay these days.

I'd consider an expat junior level salary to be around 10k and jumping pretty quick to 20k and topping out at around 50k for a VP level position in any commercial business. I will exclude International Schools, NGO's, embassy jobs and general service roles but if you're in a company making money that's where you should be at regardless of whether it's finance, oil and gas, manufacturing, sales and distro etc.

if you're really an "aussie in singapore" you've sold yourself short unfortunately.

Agree, 8K is startlingly low. Something a lot of jobseekers forget is that there's always room for negotiation when it comes to discussing salary. What they offer you is never what they're truly willing to pay.

My assumption is that AussieinSingapore correctly calculate his after tax salary to be better than Australia but was caught out by the COL in Singapore.

[Friedliver]

I would think of this like the PR application - no two applications are ever exactly alike. In this case, seems like his colleague possibly has five years more experience.


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[Lisafuller]

It's interesting you say that the time of hiring is the only time to negotiate salary. My thought process is that if they can afford to pay him that salary, then why wouldn't they be willing to pay me the same considering I am a better performer?

There are definitely opportunities to renegotiate salary during end of year reviews. However, you hold the most power at the time of hiring. If you don't negotiate yourself to a decent base, that will be what you have to work with later on.

Lisa and TiktikityTock are correct. It's very hard to negotiate a significant jump for an employee without extenuating circumstances. What's your manager going to say to the board or president? "Oh he found out he was underpaid because he snooped?". No, what he needs to be able to say is "AussieInSingapore has taken on more roles, out performed by XX%, sold YYMM and is someone I cannot afford to lose. I need to promote him to senior AussieInSingapore above UselessinSingapore and pay him 30% more in order to retain him, I'm also considering replacing UslessinSingapore as he is underperforming".

Exactly, requests for raises must always be made based on performance.

[Lisafuller]

If you have in demand skill sets, definitely explore outside.

In my industry, there is a niche department that is at the whim of industry rotations through the companies to swing pay rises.

Certain sensitive government areas mandate only Singaporean citizens are permitted, no exceptions.

Once someone is trained for that area, they can keep hopping around!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Right, at the end of the day if you're truly unhappy and have the skills that would allow you to thrive elsewhere, then it's best to leave.