What do you find more convenient here?

[Lisafuller]

Here is a surprising stat around gun violence… suicides are actually twice as common as homicides in the US.

https://www.washington.edu/news/2018/10 ... t-know-it/

Well, considering there are only a couple hundred incidents of gun violence a year, I'm not surprised at all by the statistic.

[Lisafuller]

Here is a surprising stat around gun violence… suicides are actually twice as common as homicides in the US.

https://www.washington.edu/news/2018/10 ... t-know-it/

Actually, it's not a surprise to those who were already aware. Note, "twice as common" is in reference to total suicides and total homicides, not gun related ones (of each). It is also correct that gun suicides are more common than gun homicides, but it doesn't look like that's what is trying to be conveyed (or concluded) above.

Either way, I'm not sure why this has any relevance to whether homicides or gun homicides (or total violent crimes) are increasing or decreasing. Those stats have been posted above. This is an article about perception and in many cases people aren't disagreeing with you there. It's whether something is still on a downward trend or not.

Yup, can't say I was surprised at all.

[Lisafuller]

Not sure if I believe this theory, but maybe lead contributed to the higher crime rates…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%8 ... hypothesis

I wouldn't give this theory too much credit, there are other more serious, systemic issues that seem to contribute to the phenomenon of increased violence.

[Lisafuller]

Most ordinary, everyday people are not going to be venturing into the neighborhoods where the vast majority of violent crime is taking place. And it is usually obvious to anyone with eyes to see — run down buildings, graffiti, thugs hanging out on the street corners. In the rare case if you are driving and get lost there — my advice is to be cool, pretend you belong but move right along.

You have your baseline naturally adjusted to it I think so it appears safe. This is sort of like Malaysia seen by Singaporeans as a dangerous country while for me Malaysia is a typical, and rather safe place.

But with the States it seems different. Perhaps grossly exaggerated by media but from outside it all looks like guns induced national paranoia. It's not only about some thugs with guns and rough neighbourhoods. The police is shooting at everybody under slightest suspicion they may be armed, neighbors are shooting at neighbors who by mistake entered their property (e.g. recent case of one black teenager and some young guys who arrived in a car at some wrong driveway), a cheerleader got shot also last week after entering by mistake someone else car. Not to mention what the Sates are already infamous for, school/bar mass shootings. I just don't get how the freedom to own and carry guns can be more important than somebody's right to live.

Just from this map:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country
5-10x higher homicide and violent crimes rate comparing to most EU countries.

Yes, great point, perhaps some of us are a little bit desensitized to such violence, because that's what we are used to. The recent cases of the cheerleader, and boy who went to pick up his siblings were particularly troubling.

[Lisafuller]

Most ordinary, everyday people are not going to be venturing into the neighborhoods where the vast majority of violent crime is taking place. And it is usually obvious to anyone with eyes to see — run down buildings, graffiti, thugs hanging out on the street corners. In the rare case if you are driving and get lost there — my advice is to be cool, pretend you belong but move right along.

You have your baseline naturally adjusted to it I think so it appears safe. This is sort of like Malaysia seen by Singaporeans as a dangerous country while for me Malaysia is a typical, and rather safe place.

But with the States it seems different. Perhaps grossly exaggerated by media but from outside it all looks like guns induced national paranoia. It's not only about some thugs with guns and rough neighbourhoods. The police is shooting at everybody under slightest suspicion they may be armed, neighbors are shooting at neighbors who by mistake entered their property (e.g. recent case of one black teenager and some young guys who arrived in a car at some wrong driveway), a cheerleader got shot also last week after entering by mistake someone else car. Not to mention what the Sates are already infamous for, school/bar mass shootings. I just don't get how the freedom to own and carry guns can be more important than somebody's right to live.

Just from this map:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country
5-10x higher homicide and violent crimes rate comparing to most EU countries.

Yes and that was true all the while I grew up there.

I have had my fair share of run ins with the police, including bad ones where I got treated unfairly. Maybe if I wasn’t white I would assume that was the reason. But in every encounter with the police I was polite, cooperated and did not make any sudden (or dumb) moves — that is what I see happening in most cases that end badly, including George Floyd. They never show the footage of him resisting arrest, not cooperating and disregarding police instructions - - all of which happened… not that it justifies what the police did, but I guarantee he’d be alive today if he acted the way I would have in that situation.

Although I haven’t lived in the US for 27 years, I still have family and friends there who I’m in daily contact with — I know everything they have experienced while I was there and while I was gone… I really struggle to name one incident where they were a victim of crime… in their entire lives! I believe that is the reality for the vast majority who live there.

I would expect this to be the case for most people in the US. Like you, I've been pulled over a handful of times, but without incident. I believe a lot of the reason why nobody gave me any trouble was because I'm a white woman, but to my own credit, I was very careful not to make any sudden movements, and made sure to stay calm and cooperative to the best of my ability.

Perhaps then, the point people are getting at is not the fact that incidents like this only happen to a small minority of Americans, but rather that they happen at all.

[Lisafuller]

As a counterpoint, I contributed to the carnage one December night in 1968 a couple of months after I was released from active duty and was the night manager of a Holiday Inn Motel in my home town and an armed attempt to hold me up at 3:30 am didn't quite go as planned. But that is the only time I've ever pointed and fired a gun at another human being as I was always taught from my first shotgun (which is now owned by my niece's son.) Dad gave to me when I was 14 and and went out that winter and bagged my first of many deer (it was an 8 pt buck). And no, I never pointed a gun at anybody during the 18 mos in the NAM (chopper pilot flying Loach so not a gunship).

Oh and my sister and her late husband were both Florida State Board of Corrections Parole Officers and had and still have in her case, concealed carry permits. And she still packs at 74 and still has a good eye. But she has also never had to fire it (other than on the range to stay qualified or for killing vermin.

What happened then? Did he die?

[Lisafuller]

Most individuals are responsible ones so they could own and carry guns but I see it similar to have the house locked. Majority would not rob your house, only some minority would but the house still needs to be locked. For the guns someone's live/health is at stake and clearly there is no good way to (pre)determine who is the responsible individual in that respect.
As a teenager I used to shoot small caliber sport riffle at shooting range and I liked it. I would probably like it even now but I still think all the dangers to have guns easily accessible in a typical society outweigh any possible benefits.

Yes, but the problem is that because guns are in the hands of some irresponsible individuals, everybody else has to have one to keep themselves safe.

What I think would be a better solution, and perhaps this may be easier said than done, is for the government to recall all firearms from civilians, and perhaps have them re-purposed for use in the military.

[Lisafuller]

I have had my fair share of run ins with the police, including bad ones where I got treated unfairly. Maybe if I wasn’t white I would assume that was the reason. But in every encounter with the police I was polite, cooperated and did not make any sudden (or dumb) moves — that is what I see happening in most cases that end badly, including George Floyd. They never show the footage of him resisting arrest, not cooperating and disregarding police instructions - - all of which happened… not that it justifies what the police did, but I guarantee he’d be alive today if he acted the way I would have in that situation.

What if somebody does not understand/comprehend the instructions? There was a case a few years ago, I believe we even discussed it on this board, they shot down an elderly Indian guy who didn't follow the instructions. He simply didn't understand English.

I don't even blame police in general. That's the part of this paranoia puzzle. Everybody may have a gun so they have to assume this is the case each time. Of course there should be no abuse but for the Floyd's case I have very mixed feelings.

I like to think that police are, for the most part upstanding individuals who work to keep the city safe.

At the same time however, I can't ignore some of the more blinding cases like that of George Floyd. I believe that there is definitely an issue of systemic racism, which, coupled with the unchecked power that is given to policemen, has led to a serious issue of mistrust and violence.

[Lisafuller]

I have had my fair share of run ins with the police, including bad ones where I got treated unfairly. Maybe if I wasn’t white I would assume that was the reason. But in every encounter with the police I was polite, cooperated and did not make any sudden (or dumb) moves — that is what I see happening in most cases that end badly, including George Floyd. They never show the footage of him resisting arrest, not cooperating and disregarding police instructions - - all of which happened… not that it justifies what the police did, but I guarantee he’d be alive today if he acted the way I would have in that situation.

What if somebody does not understand/comprehend the instructions? There was a case a few years ago, I believe we even discussed it on this board, they shot down an elderly Indian guy who didn't follow the instructions. He simply didn't understand English.

I don't even blame police in general. That's the part of this paranoia puzzle. Everybody may have a gun so they have to assume this is the case each time. Of course there should be no abuse but for the Floyd's case I have very mixed feelings.

There was another case many years ago where a Japanese guy didn’t know the word “freeze” and got shot by the police.

I don’t know more about the story than that - but if I were in a foreign country and the police were aiming a gun at me, I don’t think I would move no matter what they said or in what language. But I remember something my father told me which I have found to be very true… common sense is not very common.

At the same time, you have to understand that behaving rationally in a stressful situation is easier said than done. We can all talk about how we might act if we had a gun in our face, but none of us can say for sure how we would if actually placed in such a situation.

[Lisafuller]

What if somebody does not understand/comprehend the instructions? There was a case a few years ago, I believe we even discussed it on this board, they shot down an elderly Indian guy who didn't follow the instructions. He simply didn't understand English.

I don't even blame police in general. That's the part of this paranoia puzzle. Everybody may have a gun so they have to assume this is the case each time. Of course there should be no abuse but for the Floyd's case I have very mixed feelings.

There was another case many years ago where a Japanese guy didn’t know the word “freeze” and got shot by the police.

I don’t know more about the story than that - but if I were in a foreign country and the police were aiming a gun at me, I don’t think I would move no matter what they said or in what language. But I remember something my father told me which I have found to be very true… common sense is not very common.

That may be, but I still think something is very wrong with the system if the police kills an innocent person under such circumstances. And what about if this is some elderly guy with AD or other type of dementia or somebody with ASD? Knowing specific way to talk with the police is a common sense in every country but not having such skill should not be the reason alone to get one killed.

I think it's sad that the default now is to come out, guns blazing instead of calmly trying to de-escalate the situation.

[malcontent]

The US needs what they have here… swift, certain and strict punishments that fit the severity of the crime. Let’s be honest, it’s not gun control that keeps Singapore safe.

This is a lot like parenting - when you are inconsistent and don’t met out punishments when deserved, you get people who will test the limits and try their luck.

Singapore knows how to make examples out of people, and it’s nothing new — it has been happening since ancient times in the public square. I’m all for public flogging, and several states tried to introduce it after the Michael Faye incident here. In the US, criminals have more rights than victims. That has to change.

[malcontent]

I have had my fair share of run ins with the police, including bad ones where I got treated unfairly. Maybe if I wasn’t white I would assume that was the reason. But in every encounter with the police I was polite, cooperated and did not make any sudden (or dumb) moves — that is what I see happening in most cases that end badly, including George Floyd. They never show the footage of him resisting arrest, not cooperating and disregarding police instructions - - all of which happened… not that it justifies what the police did, but I guarantee he’d be alive today if he acted the way I would have in that situation.

What if somebody does not understand/comprehend the instructions? There was a case a few years ago, I believe we even discussed it on this board, they shot down an elderly Indian guy who didn't follow the instructions. He simply didn't understand English.

I don't even blame police in general. That's the part of this paranoia puzzle. Everybody may have a gun so they have to assume this is the case each time. Of course there should be no abuse but for the Floyd's case I have very mixed feelings.

I like to think that police are, for the most part upstanding individuals who work to keep the city safe.

At the same time however, I can't ignore some of the more blinding cases like that of George Floyd. I believe that there is definitely an issue of systemic racism, which, coupled with the unchecked power that is given to policemen, has led to a serious issue of mistrust and violence.

I think there is way more perceived racism than genuine racism out there in reality. I am among a small minority who believe the case with George Floyd was not racially motivated. The guy was big and powerful, he worked as a bouncer, he was on drugs at the time and he was totally uncooperative - he refused to get in the police car, he physically resisted and when they finally got him into the car, he went out the opposite side of the car! This all happened before the knee incident, which was a tragic mistake on the part of the police officer and should have never happened. Nothing justifies that or makes that right, but under the exact same circumstances if it was a white dude that was the same size and it was the exact same situation and conditions, I am willing to bet he would have gotten the knee too.

[Lisafuller]

The US needs what they have here… swift, certain and strict punishments that fit the severity of the crime. Let’s be honest, it’s not gun control that keeps Singapore safe.

This is a lot like parenting - when you are inconsistent and don’t met out punishments when deserved, you get people who will test the limits and try their luck.

Singapore knows how to make examples out of people, and it’s nothing new — it has been happening since ancient times in the public square. I’m all for public flogging, and several states tried to introduce it after the Michael Faye incident here. In the US, criminals have more rights than victims. That has to change.

Agreed, I think where singapore wins is it's strong deterrent approach. Implement maximum punishment and make sure the world knows about it so nobody tries anything funny.

[Lisafuller]

What if somebody does not understand/comprehend the instructions? There was a case a few years ago, I believe we even discussed it on this board, they shot down an elderly Indian guy who didn't follow the instructions. He simply didn't understand English.

I don't even blame police in general. That's the part of this paranoia puzzle. Everybody may have a gun so they have to assume this is the case each time. Of course there should be no abuse but for the Floyd's case I have very mixed feelings.

I like to think that police are, for the most part upstanding individuals who work to keep the city safe.

At the same time however, I can't ignore some of the more blinding cases like that of George Floyd. I believe that there is definitely an issue of systemic racism, which, coupled with the unchecked power that is given to policemen, has led to a serious issue of mistrust and violence.

I think there is way more perceived racism than genuine racism out there in reality. I am among a small minority who believe the case with George Floyd was not racially motivated. The guy was big and powerful, he worked as a bouncer, he was on drugs at the time and he was totally uncooperative - he refused to get in the police car, he physically resisted and when they finally got him into the car, he went out the opposite side of the car! This all happened before the knee incident, which was a tragic mistake on the part of the police officer and should have never happened. Nothing justifies that or makes that right, but under the exact same circumstances if it was a white dude that was the same size and it was the exact same situation and conditions, I am willing to bet he would have gotten the knee too.

We'll never know for sure, but I strongly believe there was a racial component.

[malcontent]

We'll never know for sure, but I strongly believe there was a racial component.

Of course it is impossible to know for sure, but I believe we should give people the benefit of the doubt (innocent until proven guilty). In my experience, some cops are very professional and others are real jerks. For this officer, the knee seemed to be his “go to” whenever faced with uncooperative detainees. The fact that a higher proportion of uncooperative detainees happen to be a particular race is not be enough to conclude that his actions were racially motivated. It very well could have simply been his (wrong) way of subduing detainees.