What do you find more convenient here?

[malcontent]

Public transport in Singapore is well designed to provide frequent and affordable commuting reaching probably all inhabited areas of the island but whether this is convenient or not definitely depends on the live-work-school combination. In that respect it is not any better IMO than any other major city.

It used to take my wife 1.5h to drive our son to his previous school and later go to her workplace. Now, a different school, it is more like 20-30min.
It takes me 15-20 min to get to work by motorcycle, same by car, but if I leave half an hour later it would be 40-50min by car. If I use public transport, it would be 1-1.5h. So many factors, all relative.

What I think is distinctively more convenient in Singapore is what arises from the safety. E.g. no problem to let your kid go/return from school using public transport from any area and with any number of transport changes.

Shops and such... we do not use the physical ones regularly for few years already. Unless some specific food/goods are needed or for better variety. Actually last time I was in Jelita I had this thought again, who would still buy in places like this? Not in the sense of course that there is something wrong with them, but the number of customers must have dropped dramatically comparing to the situation a decade ago. Apparently it is still profitable.

All great points. My wife drives both of my kids to school every morning - not because she can’t let them go on their own, but because it’s about the only quality time she has with them.

From the Holland area to Bishan takes 30 mins and then to Woodlands takes another 30 mins, returning back to the Holland area takes 45 to a hour, up to 1.5h round trip.

Thinking back when I was a kid growing up in a small town in the Midwest, safety was not a major concern. I started working part time after high school by age 16, and the income went to make car payments (co-signed by my dad)… so I drove myself to school/work - I am sure this is very different than most parts of the world, especially Asia, but it was definitely convenient (both for me and my parents).

I have often gotten sticker shock when I walk into Cold Storage. I think they tried pushing prices higher (from the already high prices) a few years back… but I think they backed off after things got real quiet in their stores. Still, there are a few things I get at CS that can’t be bought at NTUC, like frozen bagels and Sharwoods Jalfrezi. And, for basic things like milk, cheese and bread - there’s no real price difference. I will probably go to CS about once a month, either for convenience and/or pick up a few exclusive items.

I forgot to mention one of the biggest conveniences I have (but unique to my condo) is a mini mart about 30 steps from my lift lobby; prices aren’t over the top crazy. That is distinctly convenient, I have to admit!

Well, you do have to remember that that was a different time, guns were not as big of a problem as they are now, and also, you are a man. I would never have felt safe letting my little girl walk to school on her own when she was younger.

We also have a mini mart in our condo! This is something I'm so grateful for because they stock such a wide variety of items at low prices. My only gripe is that they kind of close whenever they feel like it, so you have to get there early if you want to have a shot at getting something.

It was a different time. The homicide rate was much higher back then. The rate has now fallen quite a bit after peaking in the 80’s. I recall that Miami used to be #1 back then. Nowadays the media has everyone convinced that things are so much worse, but the stats actually show a multi-decade downward trend.

Now that Covid travel restrictions have come off, I have been a regular travel to the US and am happy to report that it’s not bad at all.
I’ve been taking the L train every trip I’ve made to Chicago (at least 6 by now). I try to limit to daytime only, but this last trip I took the L train at midnight. I have to admit, it was a little unnerving - - there was trash strewn about, and the few riders who ventured on there looked dicey, but it was just fine.

I grew up in rural America. By the age of 12, I had my own gun. I was shot in the hand once, and I accidentally shot my friend in his forehead at close range - right between the eyes! He was on a swing and I was trying to shoot him on the bottom of his foot but missed. The bb got lodged under the skin in his forehead and he had to pick it out. His parents were pretty ticked off, needless to say. But most of us who grew up in that environment turned out just fine.

This idea that there are guns everywhere, I sure didn’t see any out in public - - and over the last 10 months I have spent quite a bit of time across 7 different states. The news doesn’t show the everyday, mundane life that is what you experience 99.9999% of the time when you are there.

Funny thing, when I first moved to Singapore, I had never taken public transport before… and after taking it here, I thought to myself, if this was the US there is no way I could just ride the train everyday without somebody messing with me, or seeing something crazy. Now that I have actually tried public transport in NYC and Chicago, it’s not nearly as crazy as I had imagined - not even close.

[NYY1]

It was a different time. The homicide rate was much higher back then. The rate has now fallen quite a bit after peaking in the 80’s. I recall that Miami used to be #1 back then. Nowadays the media has everyone convinced that things are so much worse, but the stats actually show a multi-decade downward trend.

Now that Covid travel restrictions have come off, I have been a regular travel to the US and am happy to report that it’s not bad at all.
I’ve been taking the L train every trip I’ve made to Chicago (at least 6 by now). I try to limit to daytime only, but this last trip I took the L train at midnight. I have to admit, it was a little unnerving - - there was trash strewn about, and the few riders who ventured on there looked dicey, but it was just fine.

I grew up in rural America. By the age of 12, I had my own gun. I was shot in the hand once, and I accidentally shot my friend in his forehead at close range - right between the eyes! He was on a swing and I was trying to shoot him on the bottom of his foot but missed. The bb got lodged under the skin in his forehead and he had to pick it out. His parents were pretty ticked off, needless to say. But most of us who grew up in that environment turned out just fine.

This idea that there are guns everywhere, I sure didn’t see any out in public - - and over the last 10 months I have spent quite a bit of time across 7 different states. The news doesn’t show the everyday, mundane life that is what you experience 99.9999% of the time when you are there.

Funny thing, when I first moved to Singapore, I had never taken public transport before… and after taking it here, I thought to myself, if this was the US there is no way I could just ride the train everyday without somebody messing with me, or seeing something crazy. Now that I have actually tried public transport in NYC and Chicago, it’s not nearly as crazy as I had imagined - not even close.

Some of what you write is true and some of what you say seems to be questionable. There is the overall violent crime rate (down substantially from the early-90s but up somewhat in the last decade or so), the homicide rate (also down from the early-90s but increasing relatively more in the last decade or so), and the gun related death rate (increasing substantially in recent times and approaching prior highs, perhaps just look at the gun homicide rate).

What you say about the media and the vast majority of experiences are true. At the same time, the US stats are many multiples of other developed countries. The aggregate US stats only mean so much as well. There are prosperous neighborhoods that have very very low overall stats, but usually life is not confined to just those areas, so how to judge (one can still try to manage exposure/risk with some common sense)? Also, as you note there have been changes across metro areas.

So it's either fine or it's not depending on how one looks at it. But I wouldn't contend that everything is down, and only down. Overblown? Perhaps...

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/U ... icide-rate
https://www.statista.com/statistics/191 ... ince-1990/

[malcontent]

It was a different time. The homicide rate was much higher back then. The rate has now fallen quite a bit after peaking in the 80’s. I recall that Miami used to be #1 back then. Nowadays the media has everyone convinced that things are so much worse, but the stats actually show a multi-decade downward trend.

Now that Covid travel restrictions have come off, I have been a regular travel to the US and am happy to report that it’s not bad at all.
I’ve been taking the L train every trip I’ve made to Chicago (at least 6 by now). I try to limit to daytime only, but this last trip I took the L train at midnight. I have to admit, it was a little unnerving - - there was trash strewn about, and the few riders who ventured on there looked dicey, but it was just fine.

I grew up in rural America. By the age of 12, I had my own gun. I was shot in the hand once, and I accidentally shot my friend in his forehead at close range - right between the eyes! He was on a swing and I was trying to shoot him on the bottom of his foot but missed. The bb got lodged under the skin in his forehead and he had to pick it out. His parents were pretty ticked off, needless to say. But most of us who grew up in that environment turned out just fine.

This idea that there are guns everywhere, I sure didn’t see any out in public - - and over the last 10 months I have spent quite a bit of time across 7 different states. The news doesn’t show the everyday, mundane life that is what you experience 99.9999% of the time when you are there.

Funny thing, when I first moved to Singapore, I had never taken public transport before… and after taking it here, I thought to myself, if this was the US there is no way I could just ride the train everyday without somebody messing with me, or seeing something crazy. Now that I have actually tried public transport in NYC and Chicago, it’s not nearly as crazy as I had imagined - not even close.

Some of what you write is true and some of what you say seems to be questionable. There is the overall violent crime rate (down substantially from the early-90s but up somewhat in the last decade or so), the homicide rate (also down from the early-90s but increasing relatively more in the last decade or so), and the gun related death rate (increasing substantially in recent times and approaching prior highs, perhaps just look at the gun homicide rate).

What you say about the media and the vast majority of experiences are true. At the same time, the US stats are many multiples of other developed countries. The aggregate US stats only mean so much as well. There are prosperous neighborhoods that have very very low overall stats, but usually life is not confined to just those areas, so how to judge (one can still try to manage exposure/risk with some common sense)? Also, as you note there have been changes across metro areas.

So it's either fine or it's not depending on how one looks at it. But I wouldn't contend that everything is down, and only down. Overblown? Perhaps...

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/U ... icide-rate
https://www.statista.com/statistics/191 ... ince-1990/

I’m not saying crime doesn’t happen or that the numbers are wrong, but there is this general consensus (especially in Singapore) that it has become broadly unsafe in the US, and that is just patently false.

You alluded to the differences in neighborhoods, and that is spot on. Although I’d say it’s not just prosperous areas, even middle class neighborhoods can be very safe - - but what we see in the numbers are just averages. When you drill down, the crime rate in one part of town versus another (even just a mile or two apart) can be drastically different, 2, 3 and even 4x higher.

Most ordinary, everyday people are not going to be venturing into the neighborhoods where the vast majority of violent crime is taking place. And it is usually obvious to anyone with eyes to see — run down buildings, graffiti, thugs hanging out on the street corners. In the rare case if you are driving and get lost there — my advice is to be cool, pretend you belong but move right along.

[Lisafuller]

All great points. My wife drives both of my kids to school every morning - not because she can’t let them go on their own, but because it’s about the only quality time she has with them.

From the Holland area to Bishan takes 30 mins and then to Woodlands takes another 30 mins, returning back to the Holland area takes 45 to a hour, up to 1.5h round trip.

Thinking back when I was a kid growing up in a small town in the Midwest, safety was not a major concern. I started working part time after high school by age 16, and the income went to make car payments (co-signed by my dad)… so I drove myself to school/work - I am sure this is very different than most parts of the world, especially Asia, but it was definitely convenient (both for me and my parents).

I have often gotten sticker shock when I walk into Cold Storage. I think they tried pushing prices higher (from the already high prices) a few years back… but I think they backed off after things got real quiet in their stores. Still, there are a few things I get at CS that can’t be bought at NTUC, like frozen bagels and Sharwoods Jalfrezi. And, for basic things like milk, cheese and bread - there’s no real price difference. I will probably go to CS about once a month, either for convenience and/or pick up a few exclusive items.

I forgot to mention one of the biggest conveniences I have (but unique to my condo) is a mini mart about 30 steps from my lift lobby; prices aren’t over the top crazy. That is distinctly convenient, I have to admit!

Well, you do have to remember that that was a different time, guns were not as big of a problem as they are now, and also, you are a man. I would never have felt safe letting my little girl walk to school on her own when she was younger.

We also have a mini mart in our condo! This is something I'm so grateful for because they stock such a wide variety of items at low prices. My only gripe is that they kind of close whenever they feel like it, so you have to get there early if you want to have a shot at getting something.

Yes, mini mart is something nice to have (we have one too), but I wonder how common is to have in the condo an ice cream vending machine? Ben and Jerry (including pint sizes), Magnum, some cones. Not a great variety perhaps, for obvious reasons, but still. And not that much overprised actually.

Plus another two vending machines for bread and some snacks.

Also a parcel locker, but this is I guess already a standard and in a way double edge sword - speed post and dhl always leave the parcels there and even not bother to check if somebody is at home. But only these two.

We only have very basic vending machines for drinks. They are conveniently located outside the gym, so sometimes it's nice to get an energy drink after a tiring work out.

We also have a parcel locker, parcel Santa. It's been really convenient as far as collecting parcels that are delivered at odd hours as we don't have to be disturbed, but one thing that's annoying is that most times parcels are delivered there instead of to our doorstep even if it's the middle of the day. I'm sure it saves the delivery people a lot of trouble as they can just dump all the parcels meant for those in the condo in one place, but it does inconvenience those receiving them.

[Lisafuller]

All great points. My wife drives both of my kids to school every morning - not because she can’t let them go on their own, but because it’s about the only quality time she has with them.

From the Holland area to Bishan takes 30 mins and then to Woodlands takes another 30 mins, returning back to the Holland area takes 45 to a hour, up to 1.5h round trip.

Thinking back when I was a kid growing up in a small town in the Midwest, safety was not a major concern. I started working part time after high school by age 16, and the income went to make car payments (co-signed by my dad)… so I drove myself to school/work - I am sure this is very different than most parts of the world, especially Asia, but it was definitely convenient (both for me and my parents).

I have often gotten sticker shock when I walk into Cold Storage. I think they tried pushing prices higher (from the already high prices) a few years back… but I think they backed off after things got real quiet in their stores. Still, there are a few things I get at CS that can’t be bought at NTUC, like frozen bagels and Sharwoods Jalfrezi. And, for basic things like milk, cheese and bread - there’s no real price difference. I will probably go to CS about once a month, either for convenience and/or pick up a few exclusive items.

I forgot to mention one of the biggest conveniences I have (but unique to my condo) is a mini mart about 30 steps from my lift lobby; prices aren’t over the top crazy. That is distinctly convenient, I have to admit!

Well, you do have to remember that that was a different time, guns were not as big of a problem as they are now, and also, you are a man. I would never have felt safe letting my little girl walk to school on her own when she was younger.

We also have a mini mart in our condo! This is something I'm so grateful for because they stock such a wide variety of items at low prices. My only gripe is that they kind of close whenever they feel like it, so you have to get there early if you want to have a shot at getting something.

It was a different time. The homicide rate was much higher back then. The rate has now fallen quite a bit after peaking in the 80’s. I recall that Miami used to be #1 back then. Nowadays the media has everyone convinced that things are so much worse, but the stats actually show a multi-decade downward trend.

Now that Covid travel restrictions have come off, I have been a regular travel to the US and am happy to report that it’s not bad at all.
I’ve been taking the L train every trip I’ve made to Chicago (at least 6 by now). I try to limit to daytime only, but this last trip I took the L train at midnight. I have to admit, it was a little unnerving - - there was trash strewn about, and the few riders who ventured on there looked dicey, but it was just fine.

I grew up in rural America. By the age of 12, I had my own gun. I was shot in the hand once, and I accidentally shot my friend in his forehead at close range - right between the eyes! He was on a swing and I was trying to shoot him on the bottom of his foot but missed. The bb got lodged under the skin in his forehead and he had to pick it out. His parents were pretty ticked off, needless to say. But most of us who grew up in that environment turned out just fine.

This idea that there are guns everywhere, I sure didn’t see any out in public - - and over the last 10 months I have spent quite a bit of time across 7 different states. The news doesn’t show the everyday, mundane life that is what you experience 99.9999% of the time when you are there.

Funny thing, when I first moved to Singapore, I had never taken public transport before… and after taking it here, I thought to myself, if this was the US there is no way I could just ride the train everyday without somebody messing with me, or seeing something crazy. Now that I have actually tried public transport in NYC and Chicago, it’s not nearly as crazy as I had imagined - not even close.

Well, you do have to remember that you are an adult white man. You are in the group of people that's least vulnerable to attacks, so it's highly possible that if you were a little girl taking the train alone those same dicey people that didn't give you any trouble may not have been so nice.

Also, I'm sure you know, a BB is nothing like the real thing. Even though I've never been shot, or shot anybody (thank goodness), I am very wary of the danger of guns.

The scariest thing about guns, as you pointed out, is that we don't often see them, even though practically everyone has them. Nobody carries weapons openly, rather, it's the threat that somebody who you're involved in an altercation with will be carrying one. It's the same reason why I'm a lot tamer on the roads when I'm back in the states. Here you can honk as much as you want, and with the exception of getting stomped, you know that nothing bad can really happen to you. There, it's not quite the same.

[Lisafuller]

It was a different time. The homicide rate was much higher back then. The rate has now fallen quite a bit after peaking in the 80’s. I recall that Miami used to be #1 back then. Nowadays the media has everyone convinced that things are so much worse, but the stats actually show a multi-decade downward trend.

Now that Covid travel restrictions have come off, I have been a regular travel to the US and am happy to report that it’s not bad at all.
I’ve been taking the L train every trip I’ve made to Chicago (at least 6 by now). I try to limit to daytime only, but this last trip I took the L train at midnight. I have to admit, it was a little unnerving - - there was trash strewn about, and the few riders who ventured on there looked dicey, but it was just fine.

I grew up in rural America. By the age of 12, I had my own gun. I was shot in the hand once, and I accidentally shot my friend in his forehead at close range - right between the eyes! He was on a swing and I was trying to shoot him on the bottom of his foot but missed. The bb got lodged under the skin in his forehead and he had to pick it out. His parents were pretty ticked off, needless to say. But most of us who grew up in that environment turned out just fine.

This idea that there are guns everywhere, I sure didn’t see any out in public - - and over the last 10 months I have spent quite a bit of time across 7 different states. The news doesn’t show the everyday, mundane life that is what you experience 99.9999% of the time when you are there.

Funny thing, when I first moved to Singapore, I had never taken public transport before… and after taking it here, I thought to myself, if this was the US there is no way I could just ride the train everyday without somebody messing with me, or seeing something crazy. Now that I have actually tried public transport in NYC and Chicago, it’s not nearly as crazy as I had imagined - not even close.

Some of what you write is true and some of what you say seems to be questionable. There is the overall violent crime rate (down substantially from the early-90s but up somewhat in the last decade or so), the homicide rate (also down from the early-90s but increasing relatively more in the last decade or so), and the gun related death rate (increasing substantially in recent times and approaching prior highs, perhaps just look at the gun homicide rate).

What you say about the media and the vast majority of experiences are true. At the same time, the US stats are many multiples of other developed countries. The aggregate US stats only mean so much as well. There are prosperous neighborhoods that have very very low overall stats, but usually life is not confined to just those areas, so how to judge (one can still try to manage exposure/risk with some common sense)? Also, as you note there have been changes across metro areas.

So it's either fine or it's not depending on how one looks at it. But I wouldn't contend that everything is down, and only down. Overblown? Perhaps...

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/U ... icide-rate
https://www.statista.com/statistics/191 ... ince-1990/

What I find myself most worried about are mass shootings. I'm not too worried about a gun-related homicide, I'm very careful not to make enemies and doubt I would ever be in a situation where there would be a specific threat to my life. Mass shootings, on the other hand tend to be conducted randomly, without rhyme or reason. This unpredictability is what makes them so scary, and the fact that they're so rampant doesn't help. This year alone, there have been more mass shootings than there have been days of the year. That says something.

[Lisafuller]

It was a different time. The homicide rate was much higher back then. The rate has now fallen quite a bit after peaking in the 80’s. I recall that Miami used to be #1 back then. Nowadays the media has everyone convinced that things are so much worse, but the stats actually show a multi-decade downward trend.

Now that Covid travel restrictions have come off, I have been a regular travel to the US and am happy to report that it’s not bad at all.
I’ve been taking the L train every trip I’ve made to Chicago (at least 6 by now). I try to limit to daytime only, but this last trip I took the L train at midnight. I have to admit, it was a little unnerving - - there was trash strewn about, and the few riders who ventured on there looked dicey, but it was just fine.

I grew up in rural America. By the age of 12, I had my own gun. I was shot in the hand once, and I accidentally shot my friend in his forehead at close range - right between the eyes! He was on a swing and I was trying to shoot him on the bottom of his foot but missed. The bb got lodged under the skin in his forehead and he had to pick it out. His parents were pretty ticked off, needless to say. But most of us who grew up in that environment turned out just fine.

This idea that there are guns everywhere, I sure didn’t see any out in public - - and over the last 10 months I have spent quite a bit of time across 7 different states. The news doesn’t show the everyday, mundane life that is what you experience 99.9999% of the time when you are there.

Funny thing, when I first moved to Singapore, I had never taken public transport before… and after taking it here, I thought to myself, if this was the US there is no way I could just ride the train everyday without somebody messing with me, or seeing something crazy. Now that I have actually tried public transport in NYC and Chicago, it’s not nearly as crazy as I had imagined - not even close.

Some of what you write is true and some of what you say seems to be questionable. There is the overall violent crime rate (down substantially from the early-90s but up somewhat in the last decade or so), the homicide rate (also down from the early-90s but increasing relatively more in the last decade or so), and the gun related death rate (increasing substantially in recent times and approaching prior highs, perhaps just look at the gun homicide rate).

What you say about the media and the vast majority of experiences are true. At the same time, the US stats are many multiples of other developed countries. The aggregate US stats only mean so much as well. There are prosperous neighborhoods that have very very low overall stats, but usually life is not confined to just those areas, so how to judge (one can still try to manage exposure/risk with some common sense)? Also, as you note there have been changes across metro areas.

So it's either fine or it's not depending on how one looks at it. But I wouldn't contend that everything is down, and only down. Overblown? Perhaps...

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/U ... icide-rate
https://www.statista.com/statistics/191 ... ince-1990/

I’m not saying crime doesn’t happen or that the numbers are wrong, but there is this general consensus (especially in Singapore) that it has become broadly unsafe in the US, and that is just patently false.

You alluded to the differences in neighborhoods, and that is spot on. Although I’d say it’s not just prosperous areas, even middle class neighborhoods can be very safe - - but what we see in the numbers are just averages. When you drill down, the crime rate in one part of town versus another (even just a mile or two apart) can be drastically different, 2, 3 and even 4x higher.

Most ordinary, everyday people are not going to be venturing into the neighborhoods where the vast majority of violent crime is taking place. And it is usually obvious to anyone with eyes to see — run down buildings, graffiti, thugs hanging out on the street corners. In the rare case if you are driving and get lost there — my advice is to be cool, pretend you belong but move right along.

I do agree, the US is not as unsafe is the media portrays it to be. What we see on the news is certainly not an accurate picture of every day life in the states.

I found myself in the "hood" a couple years back when I was in New York, I was with my husband, but even so felt very unsafe. We moved quickly, didn't speak to anybody, didn't even look at anybody really until we were out of there.

[NYY1]

What I find myself most worried about are mass shootings. I'm not too worried about a gun-related homicide, I'm very careful not to make enemies and doubt I would ever be in a situation where there would be a specific threat to my life. Mass shootings, on the other hand tend to be conducted randomly, without rhyme or reason. This unpredictability is what makes them so scary, and the fact that they're so rampant doesn't help. This year alone, there have been more mass shootings than there have been days of the year. That says something.

The stat that you really want isn't available. I.e. unaffiliated gun violence and/or mass shootings. The mass shooting statistic itself includes known victims (settling a dispute, thugs blasting up each other, etc) and is only based on number of people. I think things like Uvalde, TX or Highland Park, IL (Chicago suburb) are the ones you are most worried about. There are others that are harder to classify like the Miami Beach, FL or Alabama shootings (bystanders to the initial scuffle but victims nonetheless).

Others will say these are wrong place-wrong time, which is partly true. Your plane could crash, lift cables snap, breaks on a bus go out and you get squashed like a bug crossing the road, etc (I could go on but I assume everyone gets the point).

I feel like there has been an increase in "random" events and increasingly in reasonably affluent or central areas over the years, but I cannot prove this and it could be a misconception due to any combination of media coverage, what I care about, various biases, etc.

The aggregate stats are probably a decent proxy for everything that's going on (at least relative rate of change), keeping in mind that most people who aren't looking for trouble or exercising discretion are unlikely to run into problems.

[NYY1]

I hadn't seen any of these. I don't think any of them would qualify as a mass shooting.

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/unit ... -wrong-car

[malcontent]

If you could be a fly on the wall in the situations that precipitate violence in the US, you’d start to get an idea why the vast majority of these incidents occur.

Those who are humble, low-profile and keep their nose clean are extremely unlikely to face such a thing - yes, there are always exceptions — and you still have to be aware of your surroundings, but generally speaking, that is the reality on the ground.

Just look at how some people act when they get pulled over by the police. If you are smart, you will do exactly as instructed, be as humble as possible… you might even avoid a ticket.

[NYY1]

If you could be a fly on the wall in the situations that precipitate violence in the US, you’d start to get an idea why the vast majority of these incidents occur.

Those who are humble, low-profile and keep their nose clean are extremely unlikely to face such a thing - yes, there are always exceptions — and you still have to be aware of your surroundings, but generally speaking, that is the reality on the ground.

Just look at how some people act when they get pulled over by the police. If you are smart, you will do exactly as instructed, be as humble as possible… you might even avoid a ticket.

That's all fine. My reply (above) was again prompted by your statement "the stats actually show a multi-decade downward trend." That's just wrong, especially related to gun related incidents, which was the specific discussion you replied to (although you replied with general homicide, which is between the other two metrics).

Overall violent crime? It stopped going down a decade ago and has actually trended up in the last decade, although this metric is substantially below the levels from the 90s (i.e. the uptrend could be described as a small or relative blip vs. a longer-term general improvement but it would be nearly impossible to say the trend is still downward).

Trends are different from an overall belief that a) incidents are (still) infrequent and even more so depending on where you are and what you do and b) media perceptions are overblown.

[malcontent]

All of the charts that I’ve seen don’t have a decade’s worth of “up years” to arrive at that conclusion.

Maybe I need to check out the more conservative websites? Liberals apparently think crime is still going down, even in recent years.

[malcontent]

Here is a surprising stat around gun violence… suicides are actually twice as common as homicides in the US.

https://www.washington.edu/news/2018/10 ... t-know-it/

[NYY1]

All of the charts that I’ve seen don’t have a decade’s worth of “up years” to arrive at that conclusion.

Maybe I need to check out the more conservative websites? Liberals apparently think crime is still going down, even in recent years.

361 was the low in 2014. Hasn't gone lower since then. Not up every year (y/y) but it has increased since then? Certainly, it is no longer a downward trend as you have claimed (that is the statement that is wrong). BTW, this chart is total violent crime, NOT homicide or gun related incidents, which is what you replied to and specifically what I mentioned has moved up more substantially in recent years.

Here are two other stats I posted previously. Yeah, they are still on a downward trend, LOL.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/U ... icide-rate
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/

[NYY1]

Here is a surprising stat around gun violence… suicides are actually twice as common as homicides in the US.

https://www.washington.edu/news/2018/10 ... t-know-it/

Actually, it's not a surprise to those who were already aware. Note, "twice as common" is in reference to total suicides and total homicides, not gun related ones (of each). It is also correct that gun suicides are more common than gun homicides, but it doesn't look like that's what is trying to be conveyed (or concluded) above.

Either way, I'm not sure why this has any relevance to whether homicides or gun homicides (or total violent crimes) are increasing or decreasing. Those stats have been posted above. This is an article about perception and in many cases people aren't disagreeing with you there. It's whether something is still on a downward trend or not.