Help to avoid future "NS Issues"

[lvvshny]

Hello.

I hope everyone is doing well in these tumultuous times.

I am about to embark in my quest to avoid future "NS issues" for my family, hoping to get some insight from anyone here.

My wife and I are ex-Singapore citizens living in Australia for the last 15 years, with 2 children. Both of them are dual citizens, and my younger offspring is a boy turning 11 later this year. This is where my story starts...

Due to work commitments we had to relocate to Singapore temporarily 11 years ago, and my son was born there, and received citizenship by birth, as we were still SG citizens then. After completing our work, we moved back to Australia before my son turned 1, using a Singapore passport.

Both of us have renounced our SG citizenship about 2 years ago. My daughter and son being unable to do so as they are minors, intend to renounce when they can.

While we are hoping that my son does not need to serve his NS, we are preparing him for the eventuality that he may need to do it.

In the meantime, I have the responsibility to make sure that all known processes is followed, so we do not get on the wrong side of the law.

The 4 criteria in the section regarding dual citizens in article "Guide to NS Issues" is what I am using as my guide; appreciate all experience sharing from anyone else who has trodden this path and emerged unscathed, or otherwise.

The only way a male Singaporean citizen can legally avoid NS is if he
1) has another citizenship before the age of 11

This applies in our case. My son has another citizenship before age of 11.

The only way a male Singaporean citizen can legally avoid NS is if he
2) informs Mindef of his intention to renounce Singaporean citizenship and applies for the necessary exit permits from the age of 13 and obtains deferment at 18

We are at, or approaching this step now. My intention is to inform Mindef now, before he turns 11, of his intention to renounce, and get details on how I can apply for exit permits from 13, and deferment from 18, until he turns 21. Still need to figure out the best way I can get in touch, any help from others who have done this will be really appreciated.

The only way a male Singaporean citizen can legally avoid NS is if he
3) does not use or benefit from Singaporean citizenship after 11

Apart from the initial SG passport which has now expired, we have made sure that he does not benefit from his SG citizenship, since he was born. We have not accepted any of the repeated requests to open Edusave accounts, etc for him, and we will not be re-applying for a new SG passport.

The only way a male Singaporean citizen can legally avoid NS is if he
4) finally renounces Singaporean citizenship at 21

This will be something he will need to do when he becomes of age.

If anyone knows of any other resource that I should be referencing, please feel free to share. I will do my best to do my own research and read up as much as I can, but please excuse any stupid questions that may likely come!

[sundaymorningstaple]

Actually you are on the correct path. As long as you contact MINdef/CMPB and explain to them exactly how you explained it here, it should be smooth sailing. The only thing that may post a problem is the bond but there are ways to do that using bankers guarantees. The amount would have to be determined by you and them as it's an either/or scenario as to the amount being the fixed amount or an amount of 50% of your combined salaries (unless that figure has changed). My son with dual citizenship did his NS here as it was up in the air whether I was returning back to the US and I'd rather have him do it here than in the US where the draft could be reactivated and he could be shipped out to a war zone he didn't belong in (like me back in 1966).

This Strictly Speaking forum is probably the most complete collection of data regarding NS that you will find anywhere on the internet. Specifically looks for posts by Mad Scientist. He's been there, (full time Milt. Officer) also worked in one of the ministries after he retired from the military, created several companies and sold them and got his two sons out without doing NS. All above board and has helped us here and picked up where I left off years ago. He still pops his head in to help when he can. My son did his NS as I wasn't sure I was staying here (PR) but wife was SGC so getting him out was a bit of a problem and he's literally spent his whole life here except for occasional trips to the US for him to get out would have been hard unless I had him jump through hoops-Now married to a local and they are expecting my 2nd granddaughter). Please keep us posted on the journey. It's how we stay current.

[Lisafuller]

You followed all the rules, so shouldn't have any issue as SMS has pointed out. If for some absurd reason things don't work out for you, know that NS isn't as bad as it sounds. The army boys here have a great sense of camaraderie.

[lvvshny]

Actually you are on the correct path. As long as you contact MINdef/CMPB and explain to them exactly how you explained it here, it should be smooth sailing. The only thing that may post a problem is the bond but there are ways to do that using bankers guarantees. The amount would have to be determined by you and them as it's an either/or scenario as to the amount being the fixed amount or an amount of 50% of your combined salaries (unless that figure has changed). My son with dual citizenship did his NS here as it was up in the air whether I was returning back to the US and I'd rather have him do it here than in the US where the draft could be reactivated and he could be shipped out to a war zone he didn't belong in (like me back in 1966).

This Strictly Speaking forum is probably the most complete collection of data regarding NS that you will find anywhere on the internet. Specifically looks for posts by Mad Scientist. He's been there, (full time Milt. Officer) also worked in one of the ministries after he retired from the military, created several companies and sold them and got his two sons out without doing NS. All above board and has helped us here and picked up where I left off years ago. He still pops his head in to help when he can. My son did his NS as I wasn't sure I was staying here (PR) but wife was SGC so getting him out was a bit of a problem and he's literally spent his whole life here except for occasional trips to the US for him to get out would have been hard unless I had him jump through hoops-Now married to a local and they are expecting my 2nd granddaughter). Please keep us posted on the journey. It's how we stay current.

Thanks for taking the time to reply! I appreciate your insight and story. With US dual citizenship, I'm sure it's a whole different beast that I cannot begin to fathom. Happy it worked out well for you and family. Fingers crossed I can share something positive when my time comes!

[lvvshny]

You followed all the rules, so shouldn't have any issue as SMS has pointed out. If for some absurd reason things don't work out for you, know that NS isn't as bad as it sounds. The army boys here have a great sense of camaraderie.

I really hope so! Logistically, and financially, it will be hard for us to cope with my son back in SG for that 2 years. Having said that, I actually agree with you. Some of my best experiences and friends I had growing up was made when I served my NS.

[PNGMK]

I don't think you missed anything except the 364 day loophole (you can apply for exit permits for one day less than a year which has something to do with the bond).

[sundaymorningstaple]

I don't think you missed anything except the 364 day loophole (you can apply for exit permits for one day less than a year which has something to do with the bond).

The details of which can also be found in MS's posts throughout the Strictly Speaking forum.

[Lisafuller]

I don't think you missed anything except the 364 day loophole (you can apply for exit permits for one day less than a year which has something to do with the bond).

Does this mean you have to be back in singapore one day a year?

[Lisafuller]

You followed all the rules, so shouldn't have any issue as SMS has pointed out. If for some absurd reason things don't work out for you, know that NS isn't as bad as it sounds. The army boys here have a great sense of camaraderie.

I really hope so! Logistically, and financially, it will be hard for us to cope with my son back in SG for that 2 years. Having said that, I actually agree with you. Some of my best experiences and friends I had growing up was made when I served my NS.

Yep, it would definitely be challenging and unnecessarily, stressful. The good thing, though, is that I doubt it'll come to that.