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CPF accounts of 300,000 foreigners will automatically close from April 2024

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CPF accounts of 300,000 foreigners will automatically close from April 2024

Post by MOCHS » Wed, 08 Mar 2023 7:22 pm

The days of giving up SG PR/citizenship and letting your CPF idle & collect interest is now officially over.

Good thing they closed this loophole, I suppose.

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Re: CPF accounts of 300,000 foreigners will automatically close from April 2024

Post by PNGMK » Wed, 08 Mar 2023 9:16 pm

There is no point in giving up PR if you want your CPF to earn interest. However I guess you can lose PR if outside Singapore for sometime so this is a problem.

I also think this is from is the old era when EP holders had to pay CPF (approx 1990 it changed). I suspect many of these people have either passed away or lost contact with CPF.

Saying that the point that you cannot maintain a CPF account indefinitely without being resident as a PR or SC is good to know.
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Re: CPF accounts of 300,000 foreigners will automatically close from April 2024

Post by malcontent » Thu, 09 Mar 2023 8:03 am

If it gets withdrawn, it means less SSGS money for MAS/GIC to invest - which means lower total dollar returns, and potentially higher taxes to make up for it - - not significant, but I see no benefit for the government or taxpayers. Maybe whatever is left earning zero will make up for it.
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Re: CPF accounts of 300,000 foreigners will automatically close from April 2024

Post by PNGMK » Thu, 09 Mar 2023 8:09 am

malcontent wrote:
Thu, 09 Mar 2023 8:03 am
If it gets withdrawn, it means less SSGS money for MAS/GIC to invest - which means lower total dollar returns, and potentially higher taxes to make up for it - - not significant, but I see no benefit for the government or taxpayers. Maybe whatever is left earning zero will make up for it.
Yes I agree. I don't really understand the motivation behind it except to create from zero rated accounts.
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Re: CPF accounts of 300,000 foreigners will automatically close from April 2024

Post by malcontent » Thu, 09 Mar 2023 10:54 am

PNGMK wrote:
Thu, 09 Mar 2023 8:09 am

Yes I agree. I don't really understand the motivation behind it except to create from zero rated accounts.
Well, it makes a good headline — “we are sticking it to the foreigners”
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Re: CPF accounts of 300,000 foreigners will automatically close from April 2024

Post by beppi » Sat, 11 Mar 2023 6:39 pm

I was a regular contributor on this forum once (some oldies might still remember me - is Sundaymorningstaple still around?).
As an ex-PR (for 20 years) who moved out of Singapore in 2011 and could subsequently not renew the re-entry permit, I may be affected by this. But questions remain (and I would welcome input, if anyone here knows):
- The announcement talks of "renounced" PRs only. I did not renounce and honestly would have preferred to keep my PR alive - because I value safe, government-backed retirement savings and prefer to have a chance to return to Singapore hazzle-free.
- Is there a way for me to avoid having the CPF account closed (I have about S$ 250 000 in it!) - maybe due to having a Singaporean wife and daughter, in-laws in Singapore, being integrated in the Singaporean community here in Germany (Yes, there is one!) or having long-term plans to return to the Little Red Dot?
- If the CPF account were to be closed, how would that affect my return in future? Would I still have to return all monies (plus interest) to CPF then, as is current practice for people who voluntarily closed their account? This greatly influences how I could invest the freed amount in the meantime (e.g. no long-term investments like property).

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Re: CPF accounts of 300,000 foreigners will automatically close from April 2024

Post by PNGMK » Sat, 11 Mar 2023 6:44 pm

Beppi - I think you know the issue .... you have blotted your copy book so to speak.

I imagine in due course you will hear from CPF if affected by this (make your your address is up to date)/.
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Re: CPF accounts of 300,000 foreigners will automatically close from April 2024

Post by smoulder » Sat, 11 Mar 2023 7:44 pm

Beppi, from what I read, the money isn't going to disappear, or more precisely not be available for withdrawal later. Just that whatever is there isn't going to gather further interest.

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Re: CPF accounts of 300,000 foreigners will automatically close from April 2024

Post by malcontent » Sat, 11 Mar 2023 9:21 pm

It’s an interesting question about unrenounced PR that is “subject to” cancellation if remaining outside Singapore with an expired REP. I don’t recall reading about anyone who actually received notice of cancellation after remaining outside Singapore on an expired REP. However, it seems like I do recall that some PRs returned to SG and tried to renew their REP, seems like a penalty is involved and it is not guaranteed to work?
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Re: CPF accounts of 300,000 foreigners will automatically close from April 2024

Post by NYY1 » Sat, 11 Mar 2023 10:17 pm

I'm not sure what is being read into renounced or unrenounced. It seems clear that if one is a non-SC/non-PR, the CPF account will be closed. ICA's website is also clear that if you are outside of SG without a valid REP then you are no longer a PR.

I think one can voluntarily renounce his/her PR while still in possession of a valid REP (may want to take CPF with you when leaving or for other reasons). However, just because one did not renounce does not mean you are still a PR or have any other specific rights or entitlements.

My guess would be that going forward if you lose your REP then a letter will likely come stating CPF is closed/where do you want the money sent.

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/member/infohub/n ... -residents

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Re: CPF accounts of 300,000 foreigners will automatically close from April 2024

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 11 Mar 2023 10:57 pm

NYY1 wrote:
Sat, 11 Mar 2023 10:17 pm
My guess would be that going forward if you lose your REP then a letter will likely come stating CPF is closed/where do you want the money sent.

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/member/infohub/n ... -residents
It will likely be a cancellation of your PR that is the trigger (The pull on the trigger could be losing the REP but that doesn't hold in all cases. A PR can stay in Singapore as long as they want without a valid REP. You only need the REP to re-enter Singapore (must have it on exiting through immigration) If you decide to go through immigration without an REP you effectively have told ICA you are giving up your PR. But, you can stay in Singapore as long as you want without an REP as long as you never exit immigration. I know this for a fact. I went 15 months without an REP about a decade ago without any issues when I went down to renew it.

However, there is some question of getting the REP renewed if you are under the age of 55 and are on a PTS PR but are not employed. FT PR's don't have any issues at all. I don't have any confirmation on that and we had this discussion a year or so ago but I've forgotten the consensus arrived at. As I am on a FT PR I got that information straight from the horse's mouth when I was renewing mine after 15 months.
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Re: CPF accounts of 300,000 foreigners will automatically close from April 2024

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 11 Mar 2023 11:09 pm

With the closure of their CPF accounts, non-SC/PRs’ participation in CPF schemes will cease and they will be asked to transfer their CPF savings to their personal bank account. They have up to 31 March 2024 to do this, failing which their CPF accounts will be automatically closed, and any remaining savings will cease to earn the prevailing CPF interest rate. The remaining savings can still be transferred to their bank accounts at any time after that.
Of course leaving it there doesn't make too much sense if it not going to earn anything at all. Aside from it being in a more or less safe-haven (Witness failing banks of the last couple days - albeit these are crpto/venture cap types of banks but we've all seen or read about runs on banks where all lost their money. The SDIC is a joke as the limit is quite low and the limit is for all your policies aggrated up to a total of $75K only which means most people will lose the vast majority of their savings.
https://www.sdic.org.sg/
all of your insured deposits with that member are aggregated and insured up to S$75,000 by the Singapore Deposit Insurance Corporation Limited (SDIC).
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: CPF accounts of 300,000 foreigners will automatically close from April 2024

Post by NYY1 » Sat, 11 Mar 2023 11:21 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Sat, 11 Mar 2023 10:57 pm
NYY1 wrote:
Sat, 11 Mar 2023 10:17 pm
My guess would be that going forward if you lose your REP then a letter will likely come stating CPF is closed/where do you want the money sent.

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/member/infohub/n ... -residents
It will likely be a cancellation of your PR that is the trigger (The pull on the trigger could be losing the REP but that doesn't hold in all cases. A PR can stay in Singapore as long as they want without a valid REP. You only need the REP to re-enter Singapore (must have it on exiting through immigration) If you decide to go through immigration without an REP you effectively have told ICA you are giving up your PR. But, you can stay in Singapore as long as you want without an REP as long as you never exit immigration. I know this for a fact. I went 15 months without an REP about a decade ago without any issues when I went down to renew it.

However, there is some question of getting the REP renewed if you are under the age of 55 and are on a PTS PR but are not employed. FT PR's don't have any issues at all. I don't have any confirmation on that and we had this discussion a year or so ago but I've forgotten the consensus arrived at. As I am on a FT PR I got that information straight from the horse's mouth when I was renewing mine after 15 months.
Yes, it should have said "lose your REP (while outside of Singapore) then....." My mistake (I knew what it meant to me but the specific text did not cover all of the possible situations).

I think REP for PTS PR < 55 and not employed depends on a lot of things...

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Re: CPF accounts of 300,000 foreigners will automatically close from April 2024

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 11 Mar 2023 11:42 pm

When I went 15 months without an REP I had just started a new job for a month (I was 57) so then went down to renew as I wasn't sure either back then. While there I got into a detail conversation with one of the officers (not line clerk) and he gave me the low down on FT PR's. At the time I was completely relieved of 15 months of stress and completely forgot to get the lowdown for PTS PRs.

Yeah, I'm sure there would be a lot of variables to consider (e.g., married to a local, children in school, male children, a whole host of things the government might have future uses for that is potentially valuable to the government in the future.
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Re: CPF accounts of 300,000 foreigners will automatically close from April 2024

Post by beppi » Sun, 12 Mar 2023 2:54 am

For clarification: I am no longer PR since my last REP expied while living abroad. I was even informed about it (by mail to my Singapore address, which is my in-laws).
My question was thus, whether non-renounced but expired PRs are treated any different (because the CPF webpage only refers to "renounced"). I see that the consensus here seems to be No.
And then there is still the question of what will happen if we move to Singapore again (which is not unlikely for a majority Singaporean family). Do I have to pay back all CPF money, possibly with interest (as is currently the case if CPF was withdrawn voluntarily), although I didn't even want to take out in the first place?
If no-one has informaion here, I will try to ask CPF directly and report back what they reply.

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