Would you pay $4,000 per month for Punggol HDB rental?

[Lisafuller]

To be fair, there are just as many surveys from other countries where university students expect to make about 2x what the average starting salary is. Further, for some niche jobs it may be possible, so you need to understand who was actually answering the question. But on average, the expectations everywhere seem to be inflated.

I will also add that many here may be out of touch with incomes and housing costs/values. Incomes are going up as the workforce is more educated (and skilled) vs. decades ago. There are also more very well paying jobs available to relatively young workers (just need the right skills). Is everyone worth that? No, but over the years the skill and opportunity set here has evolved. Second, a million dollar HDB flat has to be put in the context of both other housing alternatives and the required monthly mortgage payment (vs combined incomes).

The condo rental rate growth seems to have slowed dramatically in recent months. The HDB market maybe not as much (per news articles). If more and more young people want to live on their own vs at home the latter is going to continue to see intermediate term pressures, as there is only so much housing stock available. Both markets will benefit from additional completions later this year and in the coming years, but a permanent shift to young locals renting/sharing rent could keep that market tight.

In comparison with the US, I'd say that fresh grads there are more realistic with their expectations. Though it seems as though regardless of which country we're discussing, the youngsters share a sense of dread for the future, as they quickly recognize how unaffordable living is becoming.

[Lisafuller]

It is not even a choice if you are a foreigner. I just wish Malaysia did something like offer Singapore EP holders some kind of residency in Malaysia, without the crazy MM2H requirements. The glut in JB property would be solved.

We could create a thriving expat community in JB and I could leave my wife and daughter there and rent a room in Singapore and then go back to Malaysia over the weekend.

I'm sure you have seen the queue at the causeway right? I guess this will become worthwhile only after the mrt to jb starts.

That causeway jam is insane, possibly detrimental to anyone with career aspirations, as being late to work will be a recurrent affair.

Agree, though I'd argue that it would not be as serious of an issue as it may have been in the past, as employers are becoming more flexible.

[NYY1]

To be fair, there are just as many surveys from other countries where university students expect to make about 2x what the average starting salary is. Further, for some niche jobs it may be possible, so you need to understand who was actually answering the question. But on average, the expectations everywhere seem to be inflated.
...

In comparison with the US, I'd say that fresh grads there are more realistic with their expectations. Though it seems as though regardless of which country we're discussing, the youngsters share a sense of dread for the future, as they quickly recognize how unaffordable living is becoming.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/pe ... 656696002/

[smoulder]

It is not even a choice if you are a foreigner. I just wish Malaysia did something like offer Singapore EP holders some kind of residency in Malaysia, without the crazy MM2H requirements. The glut in JB property would be solved.

We could create a thriving expat community in JB and I could leave my wife and daughter there and rent a room in Singapore and then go back to Malaysia over the weekend.

I'm sure you have seen the queue at the causeway right? I guess this will become worthwhile only after the mrt to jb starts.

The KTM is up and running but it's difficult to get tickets.

Yea really difficult to get tickets. They are available online up to a month ahead of the journey and sold out quite soon. Certainly not a reliable way to commute daily. I expect the mrt will ease that greatly. For sure the KTM shuttle is the quickest way to get across at the moment.

[smoulder]

I'm sure you have seen the queue at the causeway right? I guess this will become worthwhile only after the mrt to jb starts.

That causeway jam is insane, possibly detrimental to anyone with career aspirations, as being late to work will be a recurrent affair.

Agree, though I'd argue that it would not be as serious of an issue as it may have been in the past, as employers are becoming more flexible.

From what I've seen/know, it's workers who usually commute today. They wake up at crazy hours just to ensure that they reach on time, then reach home late in the night, after a whole days work which is at least partially menial. All just to save a few hundreds more. These are not white collar workers with flexible work timings.

[Wd40]

My point is SG is very soon going to be a very unviable place for companies to setup up shop and bring foreign workers. The math just doesnt make sense. Even 4k seems a good deal now. People have really gone mad, they are asking for like 6.5k now for a HDB.

https://goodyfeed.com/amk-hdb-rented-6500/

So we need to think of some alternatives, near shoring to Malaysia could be an option. I dont understand why companies are not concerned about this yet.

[smoulder]

My point is SG is very soon going to be a very unviable place for companies to setup up shop and bring foreign workers. The math just doesnt make sense. Even 4k seems a good deal now. People have really gone mad, they are asking for like 6.5k now for a HDB.

https://goodyfeed.com/amk-hdb-rented-6500/

So we need to think of some alternatives, near shoring to Malaysia could be an option. I dont understand why companies are not concerned about this yet.

The rents will hopefully come down again to saner levels. But your point is still valid - in my previous bank, Singapore was considered a high cost center and good for it's data center but the expectation was to have minimum IT staff. My current bank has set up a center of excellence in Malaysia. But that's in KL.

[Lisafuller]

To be fair, there are just as many surveys from other countries where university students expect to make about 2x what the average starting salary is. Further, for some niche jobs it may be possible, so you need to understand who was actually answering the question. But on average, the expectations everywhere seem to be inflated.
...

In comparison with the US, I'd say that fresh grads there are more realistic with their expectations. Though it seems as though regardless of which country we're discussing, the youngsters share a sense of dread for the future, as they quickly recognize how unaffordable living is becoming.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/pe ... 656696002/

Fair enough, but this is certainly not the perception I have based on my interaction with family members studying in the US and their friends. These are all kids who go to really great schools and would, if anything, be on the upper end of income.

[Lisafuller]

I'm sure you have seen the queue at the causeway right? I guess this will become worthwhile only after the mrt to jb starts.

The KTM is up and running but it's difficult to get tickets.

Yea really difficult to get tickets. They are available online up to a month ahead of the journey and sold out quite soon. Certainly not a reliable way to commute daily. I expect the mrt will ease that greatly. For sure the KTM shuttle is the quickest way to get across at the moment.

I remember reading something about the project being stopped. Isn't that the case?

[Lisafuller]

That causeway jam is insane, possibly detrimental to anyone with career aspirations, as being late to work will be a recurrent affair.

Agree, though I'd argue that it would not be as serious of an issue as it may have been in the past, as employers are becoming more flexible.

From what I've seen/know, it's workers who usually commute today. They wake up at crazy hours just to ensure that they reach on time, then reach home late in the night, after a whole days work which is at least partially menial. All just to save a few hundreds more. These are not white collar workers with flexible work timings.

Gotcha. I know what you're talking about, a lot of these workers have kids that they take across the border daily as well in the hopes of getting them a better education.

[Lisafuller]

My point is SG is very soon going to be a very unviable place for companies to setup up shop and bring foreign workers. The math just doesnt make sense. Even 4k seems a good deal now. People have really gone mad, they are asking for like 6.5k now for a HDB.

https://goodyfeed.com/amk-hdb-rented-6500/

So we need to think of some alternatives, near shoring to Malaysia could be an option. I dont understand why companies are not concerned about this yet.

$6500 is crazy! I know of some condos in Orchard that go for less than that.

[Lisafuller]

My point is SG is very soon going to be a very unviable place for companies to setup up shop and bring foreign workers. The math just doesnt make sense. Even 4k seems a good deal now. People have really gone mad, they are asking for like 6.5k now for a HDB.

https://goodyfeed.com/amk-hdb-rented-6500/

So we need to think of some alternatives, near shoring to Malaysia could be an option. I dont understand why companies are not concerned about this yet.

The rents will hopefully come down again to saner levels. But your point is still valid - in my previous bank, Singapore was considered a high cost center and good for it's data center but the expectation was to have minimum IT staff. My current bank has set up a center of excellence in Malaysia. But that's in KL.

Just a thought, what if they don't come back down so soon? What is this extends to a rental and inflationary spiral?

[smoulder]

The KTM is up and running but it's difficult to get tickets.

Yea really difficult to get tickets. They are available online up to a month ahead of the journey and sold out quite soon. Certainly not a reliable way to commute daily. I expect the mrt will ease that greatly. For sure the KTM shuttle is the quickest way to get across at the moment.

I remember reading something about the project being stopped. Isn't that the case?

Still on. In full swing. I read recently that the Singapore end is 45 percent completed and they are on schedule (current schedule is to open in 2026).

[Wd40]

My point is SG is very soon going to be a very unviable place for companies to setup up shop and bring foreign workers. The math just doesnt make sense. Even 4k seems a good deal now. People have really gone mad, they are asking for like 6.5k now for a HDB.

https://goodyfeed.com/amk-hdb-rented-6500/

So we need to think of some alternatives, near shoring to Malaysia could be an option. I dont understand why companies are not concerned about this yet.

The rents will hopefully come down again to saner levels. But your point is still valid - in my previous bank, Singapore was considered a high cost center and good for it's data center but the expectation was to have minimum IT staff. My current bank has set up a center of excellence in Malaysia. But that's in KL.

My bank uses Manila as their low cost COE in Asia, they have Poland and Romania too. This is a bit like bottom of the barrel scrapping now

In Singapore most teams are resisting hiring in Manila. The deal is you are allowed to liberally hire 5 guys in Manila no questions asked, but to hire in Singapore even one contractor, the approvals go to really high levels.

[Lisafuller]

Yea really difficult to get tickets. They are available online up to a month ahead of the journey and sold out quite soon. Certainly not a reliable way to commute daily. I expect the mrt will ease that greatly. For sure the KTM shuttle is the quickest way to get across at the moment.

I remember reading something about the project being stopped. Isn't that the case?

Still on. In full swing. I read recently that the Singapore end is 45 percent completed and they are on schedule (current schedule is to open in 2026).

Nice! I doubt I'll be in SG by then. I do remember distinctly that there was a railway project that was canceled, caused quite a big hoohah.