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Providing new information to a pending PR application

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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Re: Providing new information to a pending PR application

Post by malcontent » Wed, 05 Apr 2023 1:36 pm

Sometimes it pays to appeal and/or make an appointment to see the officer. My wife has done this on many occasions. The most recent was toward the end of last year — they were dragging their feet on her REP renewal and we were about to leave on an extended vacation. Her sister who is in an identical situation got her REP renewed weeks earlier. So she went to see the officer. They tried to make it seem like they needed to check on some things, but in reality, there was no good reason to delay her renewal… and when she insisted that she needed it pronto in order to travel, they ended up renewing it on the spot.
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Re: Providing new information to a pending PR application

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 05 Apr 2023 1:43 pm

I agree that it works with REP renewals as I also have done the same because normally REP renewal are handled by line clerks. When their is an issue, an officer can be requested and you go back out and sit down and wait till your number is called again and you will be sent to a cubicle or small office where an officer will attend to you. That's what happened to me after my REP had expired for 15 months before I renewed it (over the age of 55 and unemployed for 12 of the 15 month but a FT PR). But on applications for SGC or PR it's a bit different. (been there as well).
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Re: Providing new information to a pending PR application

Post by malcontent » Wed, 05 Apr 2023 1:58 pm

The only occasion when my wife went to speak to an officer about a rejected PR, was the case of my daughter — her FT PR was rejected at age 6. We applied because she we were about to do primary school enrollment, and back then PR was still useful for that. When we appealed, it was kind of surprising, my wife’s PR was heavily scrutinized, and she was asked to provide a lot of information about her business, she had to explain the operation and financials, her income and she also had to give them info on property owned here. We also had to give a written statement that explained why we were appealing. I mentioned how long we had been staying in Singapore and how our daughter could contribute to the future of Singapore. In the end, our appeal was a success.
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Re: Providing new information to a pending PR application

Post by NYY1 » Wed, 05 Apr 2023 2:25 pm

malcontent wrote:
Wed, 05 Apr 2023 1:58 pm
The only occasion when my wife went to speak to an officer about a rejected PR, was the case of my daughter — her FT PR was rejected at age 6. We applied because she we were about to do primary school enrollment, and back then PR was still useful for that. When we appealed, it was kind of surprising, my wife’s PR was heavily scrutinized, and she was asked to provide a lot of information about her business, she had to explain the operation and financials, her income and she also had to give them info on property owned here. We also had to give a written statement that explained why we were appealing. I mentioned how long we had been staying in Singapore and how our daughter could contribute to the future of Singapore. In the end, our appeal was a success.
Singapore PR is still useful for primary school enrollment; it guarantees the child a spot somewhere and at a much lower cost to (non-MOE) alternatives. I know that won't be adequate for those who think what school a child goes to is an important social status item or think some schools are inferior/not good enough for their child. But the ability to enroll in any school will be much appreciated by many parents/students.

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Re: Providing new information to a pending PR application

Post by ahamedmoosa.s » Wed, 05 Apr 2023 3:09 pm

Ignorant1 wrote:
Wed, 05 Apr 2023 9:34 am
ahamedmoosa.s wrote:
Wed, 05 Apr 2023 12:30 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Tue, 28 Mar 2023 10:46 pm


Salary increase and the birth of your son are what's going to make a real difference. Seems like you would have a much better chance this time.
I hope so too :) For the first time I am feeling more hopeful than ever.
I have also received a reply from an officer for my email.
A particular sentence from that email caught my attention
"
You have to wait for your application to be finalized before you apply for your son.
"
I know this is no cryptic sentence to give positive signs , but it feels nice
:)
Good to be optimist.

However , the statement is just a fact. You can’t add your kid to existing application.

We tried and we got same reply and reject after few months.

Second time we waited for our son to be born and applied after his DP was sorted out.
Yes , being optimistic has its pros and cons.
I am aware of the fact that I can't add my new born to the existing application and that's why I just informed about the birth and didn't request to add him to the existing application.

By the way , would you mind to share what happened afterwards in your case ?

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Re: Providing new information to a pending PR application

Post by Ignorant1 » Thu, 06 Apr 2023 8:35 am

Application pending. 13 months and counting

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Re: Providing new information to a pending PR application

Post by malcontent » Thu, 06 Apr 2023 12:41 pm

NYY1 wrote:
Wed, 05 Apr 2023 2:25 pm
malcontent wrote:
Wed, 05 Apr 2023 1:58 pm
The only occasion when my wife went to speak to an officer about a rejected PR, was the case of my daughter — her FT PR was rejected at age 6. We applied because she we were about to do primary school enrollment, and back then PR was still useful for that. When we appealed, it was kind of surprising, my wife’s PR was heavily scrutinized, and she was asked to provide a lot of information about her business, she had to explain the operation and financials, her income and she also had to give them info on property owned here. We also had to give a written statement that explained why we were appealing. I mentioned how long we had been staying in Singapore and how our daughter could contribute to the future of Singapore. In the end, our appeal was a success.
Singapore PR is still useful for primary school enrollment; it guarantees the child a spot somewhere and at a much lower cost to (non-MOE) alternatives. I know that won't be adequate for those who think what school a child goes to is an important social status item or think some schools are inferior/not good enough for their child. But the ability to enroll in any school will be much appreciated by many parents/students.
For me it had nothing to do with status or not being good enough - even the school my daughter ended up in wasn’t a great school, but it was better than some others. I know it’s taboo to say that - - I should drink the kool-aid and repeat the slogan: every school is a good school; but some are better than others, that is the reality.

Several of my in-law’s kids went through ACS and it really was a better school — the teachers, the resources, the support… it was undeniably better when comparing experiences. The educational outcomes across my kids and their five cousins suggests a strong correlation too, but with the small sample size, it’s not statistically valid.

I think many expats are surprised by the fact that their child might not be able to get into local school, and even more shocked by the fees being charged to attend. This was not always the case in the past, and is not the case in most countries. I guess it’s one way to ensure the welcome mat doesn’t get rolled out too far.
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Re: Providing new information to a pending PR application

Post by NYY1 » Thu, 06 Apr 2023 2:04 pm

malcontent wrote:
Thu, 06 Apr 2023 12:41 pm
NYY1 wrote:
Wed, 05 Apr 2023 2:25 pm
malcontent wrote:
Wed, 05 Apr 2023 1:58 pm
The only occasion when my wife went to speak to an officer about a rejected PR, was the case of my daughter — her FT PR was rejected at age 6. We applied because she we were about to do primary school enrollment, and back then PR was still useful for that. When we appealed, it was kind of surprising, my wife’s PR was heavily scrutinized, and she was asked to provide a lot of information about her business, she had to explain the operation and financials, her income and she also had to give them info on property owned here. We also had to give a written statement that explained why we were appealing. I mentioned how long we had been staying in Singapore and how our daughter could contribute to the future of Singapore. In the end, our appeal was a success.
Singapore PR is still useful for primary school enrollment; it guarantees the child a spot somewhere and at a much lower cost to (non-MOE) alternatives. I know that won't be adequate for those who think what school a child goes to is an important social status item or think some schools are inferior/not good enough for their child. But the ability to enroll in any school will be much appreciated by many parents/students.
For me it had nothing to do with status or not being good enough - even the school my daughter ended up in wasn’t a great school, but it was better than some others. I know it’s taboo to say that - - I should drink the kool-aid and repeat the slogan: every school is a good school; but some are better than others, that is the reality.

Several of my in-law’s kids went through ACS and it really was a better school — the teachers, the resources, the support… it was undeniably better when comparing experiences. The educational outcomes across my kids and their five cousins suggests a strong correlation too, but with the small sample size, it’s not statistically valid.

I think many expats are surprised by the fact that their child might not be able to get into local school, and even more shocked by the fees being charged to attend. This was not always the case in the past, and is not the case in most countries. I guess it’s one way to ensure the welcome mat doesn’t get rolled out too far.
Yes, there are differences across the schools; demographics, resources, culture/history, peer interests/expectations, etc. But any MOE school provides a pretty good baseline education. And if the child is capable/motivated, he/she will be able to progress elsewhere come S1 (if not earlier). Many are thrilled just to get a start/shot anywhere; that's my point.

There was absolutely nothing said about all schools being the same, which is what your response entailed for whatever reason (comparisons important?). As for your last paragraph about not gaining entry to the local school, that is why I said PR is still useful; you can get in (at very reduced fees vs. alternatives)!

With regard to the educational outcomes (in general), I would suggest you also think about whether the input was/is the same across various schools (here and in other countries). A lot can be explained by SES, parents' intelligence/education levels etc. Entry into schools (anywhere) is hardly random. If you are looking at just the kids in your extended family, well some of the same would also apply (genes aren't exactly the same) and there is variance in a one-time test score, which you acknowledge via not statistically valid. The school plays a part, but it's not just the school.

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Re: Providing new information to a pending PR application

Post by malcontent » Thu, 06 Apr 2023 8:11 pm

NYY1 wrote:
Thu, 06 Apr 2023 2:04 pm
Yes, there are differences across the schools; demographics, resources, culture/history, peer interests/expectations, etc. But any MOE school provides a pretty good baseline education. And if the child is capable/motivated, he/she will be able to progress elsewhere come S1 (if not earlier). Many are thrilled just to get a start/shot anywhere; that's my point.

There was absolutely nothing said about all schools being the same, which is what your response entailed for whatever reason (comparisons important?). As for your last paragraph about not gaining entry to the local school, that is why I said PR is still useful; you can get in (at very reduced fees vs. alternatives)!

With regard to the educational outcomes (in general), I would suggest you also think about whether the input was/is the same across various schools (here and in other countries). A lot can be explained by SES, parents' intelligence/education levels etc. Entry into schools (anywhere) is hardly random. If you are looking at just the kids in your extended family, well some of the same would also apply (genes aren't exactly the same) and there is variance in a one-time test score, which you acknowledge via not statistically valid. The school plays a part, but it's not just the school.
There are just too many variables, honestly. My kids did 4 years (N1-K2) at a mission school and I wanted them to continue at a mission school in primary. I was able to do that for my daughter through PR, but my son had no chance after the rules changed. That said, my son was probably not a good fit for local school… every time we sat him down with a tutor, they would say as much to us. He is too much of a thinker and not a follower, just the opposite of my daughter (she took to the local system like a fish to water). He is also very creative and strong in visual arts - I honestly can’t imagine what he would have become in the local system (but who knows?). He is thriving at SAS and is taking advanced math and science (at least advanced by American standards). He will start college level (AP) art class this fall in grade 10. My daughter recently took the SAT and got near perfect on Math, but suffered on the English section (exactly the same for her cousin who took the SAT with her). No big surprise, English is a definite weak spot in local education, it’s honestly taught like a second language. I actually witnessed my daughter’s English get worse during her initial years in primary after she unlearned what I had taught her. It is frustrating if you are a native English speaking parent like myself. While I appreciate the strong points of the Singapore education system, and it’s certainly value for money as a PR (relative to other options available locally), it’s not a panacea, there are a whole lot of compromises and sacrifices that come with local education. The level of workload is just way overdone, the non-academic side of things are severely limited, and the STEM focus is very stifling… to name a few. No regrets though, and my daughter is happy, that is the main thing.
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Re: Providing new information to a pending PR application

Post by NYY1 » Thu, 06 Apr 2023 9:35 pm

malcontent wrote:
Thu, 06 Apr 2023 8:11 pm
There are just too many variables, honestly. My kids did 4 years (N1-K2) at a mission school and I wanted them to continue at a mission school in primary. I was able to do that for my daughter through PR, but my son had no chance after the rules changed. That said, my son was probably not a good fit for local school… every time we sat him down with a tutor, they would say as much to us. He is too much of a thinker and not a follower, just the opposite of my daughter (she took to the local system like a fish to water). He is also very creative and strong in visual arts - I honestly can’t imagine what he would have become in the local system (but who knows?). He is thriving at SAS and is taking advanced math and science (at least advanced by American standards). He will start college level (AP) art class this fall in grade 10. My daughter recently took the SAT and got near perfect on Math, but suffered on the English section (exactly the same for her cousin who took the SAT with her). No big surprise, English is a definite weak spot in local education, it’s honestly taught like a second language. I actually witnessed my daughter’s English get worse during her initial years in primary after she unlearned what I had taught her. It is frustrating if you are a native English speaking parent like myself. While I appreciate the strong points of the Singapore education system, and it’s certainly value for money as a PR (relative to other options available locally), it’s not a panacea, there are a whole lot of compromises and sacrifices that come with local education. The level of workload is just way overdone, the non-academic side of things are severely limited, and the STEM focus is very stifling… to name a few. No regrets though, and my daughter is happy, that is the main thing.
Yes, nothing is a panacea and just like where to live, etc there are always pros/cons and tradeoffs. I actually think many here have overvalued the Singapore education system and undervalued the American/Western system, at least relatively speaking (I'm not taking a stand on which one is collectively "better").

I don't fully agree on the comments about English/STEM, workload, and non-academic things, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. It's all about what one decides is a priority, even if others are focusing on something else. In contrast, while many Western systems offer a more relaxed environment for the average student (along with other benefits), the competition at the top is just as intense as it is here.

In the end, it's not about the system to me. It's about what the individual student does. Make the most of whatever opportunities you have and understand your environment (strengths and weaknesses; need to head off the latter as no matter where you are there will be some weaknesses).

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Re: Providing new information to a pending PR application

Post by malcontent » Thu, 06 Apr 2023 10:00 pm

NYY1 wrote:
Thu, 06 Apr 2023 9:35 pm
Yes, nothing is a panacea and just like where to live, etc there are always pros/cons and tradeoffs. I actually think many here have overvalued the Singapore education system and undervalued the American/Western system, at least relatively speaking (I'm not taking a stand on which one is collectively "better").

I don't fully agree on the comments about English/STEM, workload, and non-academic things, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. It's all about what one decides is a priority, even if others are focusing on something else. In contrast, while many Western systems offer a more relaxed environment for the average student (along with other benefits), the competition at the top is just as intense as it is here.

In the end, it's not about the system or the school to me. It's about what the individual student does. Make the most of whatever opportunities you have and understand both the system's strengths and weaknesses (need to head off the latter; no matter what system you are in there will be some weaknesses).
Agree on the point that kids should make the most of whatever they are given. However, not all kids are motivated, aware or understand the implications. Take myself… I was a complete dope in school, I had no idea what was going on, neglected every opportunity and got very little out of it. By the end of high school, my goal was to do as little as possible to graduate, and that is exactly what happened. Looking back it was a complete and total wasted opportunity. I had to take remedial classes at community college to catch up before I could be accepted into any university, and even after that, it was only after I met my SO at university that everything changed — she totally transformed my perceptions, opened my eyes to what was going on around me and by the end, I was taking a full load of upper level classes and making the dean’s list.

Had I gone to school in Singapore, I hesitate to guess where I would have ended up… maybe ITE at best? I was very fortunate that the US education system is so lenient, flexible and forgiving!
It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows - Epictetus

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