Stupid news articles

[x9200]

But is the death penalty an effective deterrent? The crime rate in US states with death penalty is no lower than others. Hong Kong and Singapore have a similar murder rate but Hong Kong has no death penalty. Iran has even more severe drug laws but higher rates of drug abuse. There are endless anecdotes but little evidence.

As heartwarming as is to hear LKY and Shanmugan talking tough, it doesn't mean they are right.

It is effective only if the conviction and punishment are almost inevitable. That's partly the reason why Singapore has such firm stand and does not bend under any political or other pressure.
Everyone knows, if you are caught smuggling drugs you are done. Nothing is going to save you from being hanged.
In the States, I believe you still have other options. It is not mandatory.

[tiktok]

Is there any evidence that it actually deters drug trafficking? Is it even possible to prove?

But it's definitely not good enough to say "everyone knows". Even if those uneducated mules in other countries know about Singapore's death penalty, they almost certainly don't know that judges have almost no leeway in sentencing, nor do they expect to be interrogated without a lawyer or interpreter present, or have to self represent in court because no lawyers want to take capital cases here. Whatever the reason, they keep taking the risk and bringing in drugs.

According to the Straits Times there's still a drug problem which would seem to prove the deterrent isn't working. How come Sweden has lower rates of drug use than Singapore without the death penalty?

[jalanjalan]

Many Singaporeans will be reading articles like the ones I posted (probably not so many kopitiam uncles though) and seeing how much criticism Singapore is getting for their drug laws. More than a few will be starting to question them. Expect to see more anti drug pseudo-journalsm in ST/CNA in the coming weeks.

criticism from the American sources you cited? please lah. Even the angmos in this forum don't think those are unbiased.

[jalanjalan]

Is there any evidence that it actually deters drug trafficking? Is it even possible to prove?

But it's definitely not good enough to say "everyone knows". Even if those uneducated mules in other countries know about Singapore's death penalty, they almost certainly don't know that judges have almost no leeway in sentencing, nor do they expect to be interrogated without a lawyer or interpreter present, or have to self represent in court because no lawyers want to take capital cases here. Whatever the reason, they keep taking the risk and bringing in drugs.

According to the Straits Times there's still a drug problem which would seem to prove the deterrent isn't working.

Yup it works.
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/ ... -tells-bbc

[tiktok]

You really got to stop believing what the government says because they said so. Shanmugan gives NO evidence that the death penalty actually reduces drug crime, none.

[jalanjalan]

But is the death penalty an effective deterrent? The crime rate in US states with death penalty is no lower than others. Hong Kong and Singapore have a similar murder rate but Hong Kong has no death penalty. Iran has even more severe drug laws but higher rates of drug abuse. There are endless anecdotes but little evidence.

As heartwarming as is to hear LKY and Shanmugan talking tough, it doesn't mean they are right.

I'm with you. Your statistics are correct. Worse, in the USA, the death penalty is applied in a way that puts more minorities on death row. It's very racist.

Beyond that, the death penalty is state-sanctioned murder. It's not a deterrent, it's state-sanctioned revenge It's bad enough that the death penalty is applied to capital crimes, it is abhorrent when applied to drug crimes. The death penalty is irrationally applied, imposed on some but not on others, with no valid justification for the difference.

Civilized countries have done away with the death penalty. If you want to put yourself in with China, Iran, Egypt, Syria, and Saudi Arabia, who are the top five executioners in the world, then keep the death penalty.

24 states and DC in the USA have abolished the death penalty, with 3 states having imposed a moratorium. Not surprisingly, the 24 states that all think the death penalty does some good are deep red republican states. Texas leads the killing.

The US justice system may well have made a mess of it, but that's their issue, not ours. Different country, different history, different population. They may do what they like within their own borders.

I like not seeing streets and streets of addicts lying in their own waste. I like that school children don't have to fend off dealers. What we're doing is clearly working for us. So I support it, and we may do what we like within our own borders.

[tiktok]

I don't really recommend anyone suffers watching this (and it's just part 1) but if you want to see what a obfuscating, devious snake Shanmugan is, watch this. https://youtu.be/jMqx3tEdOKU

[jalanjalan]

You really got to stop believing what the government says because they said so. Shanmugan gives NO evidence that the death penalty actually reduces drug crime, none.

Yes he did actually, you can go look through the Hansard and MHA press releases. Forget where exactly I saw the latest.

[jalanjalan]

I don't really recommend anyone suffers watching this (and it's just part 1) but if you want to see what a obfuscating, devious snake Shanmugan is, watch this. https://youtu.be/jMqx3tEdOKU

name calling? that's not a worthy argument.

[tiktok]

You really got to stop believing what the government says because they said so. Shanmugan gives NO evidence that the death penalty actually reduces drug crime, none.

Yes he did actually, you can go look through the Hansard and MHA press releases. Forget where exactly I saw the latest.

Come on, you linked to an interview where you say "yup it [the death penalty] works" and the interview gives absolutely no evidence or even claim that it works.

If you have other links that have evidence "it works" please post them.

[tiktok]

I don't really recommend anyone suffers watching this (and it's just part 1) but if you want to see what a obfuscating, devious snake Shanmugan is, watch this. https://youtu.be/jMqx3tEdOKU

name calling? that's not a worthy argument.

It's de rigeur on this site. Make through all 4 parts of that hearing and I think you'll agree with me.

[jalanjalan]

I told you where to look. Go look lah. If this topic is that important to you, do your research properly.

[tiktok]

You told me to look here: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/ ... -tells-bbc

Based on the character count I'd say this issue is equally important for both of us. I always try and make evidence easy to find, I have never said "go look it up", that's lazy and unhelpful.

[jalanjalan]

You told me to look here: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/ ... -tells-bbc

Based on the character count I'd say this issue is equally important for both of us. I always try and make evidence easy to find, I have never said "go look it up", that's lazy and unhelpful.

I said Hansard and press releases. Scroll up.

Let me sum up my main points for you:
1. Our laws work for us
2. We're a sovereign country

I find both of these to be unanswerable unless you think we 1. do not know what it good for us and 2. need western countries to tell us. Is that your assertion? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but that's the only logical conclusion I've been able to draw from your comments.

[tiktok]

Actually #1 is something you should question. Why are there still drugs in Singapore and why do people keep bringing them in?

And the point of this thread has always been to show how biased and inaccurate the mainstream media is in Singapore. If anyone believes what they read in it, they certainly don't know what is good for them.