How to actually move out of Singapore

[Lisafuller]

Well guys, after over 20 years here we're getting ready to leave in the fall of 2023. It's actually a lot sooner than we realize, so before then I wanted to ask if anybody has any advice on things that need to be done before leaving. Appreciate information that includes timelines and specific recommendations. For now we have a condo that is fully paid off, a car with about two years left on the COE, and CPF.

[malcontent]

Well guys, after over 20 years here we're getting ready to leave in the fall of 2023. It's actually a lot sooner than we realize, so before then I wanted to ask if anybody has any advice on things that need to be done before leaving. Appreciate information that includes timelines and specific recommendations. For now we have a condo that is fully paid off, a car with about two years left on the COE, and CPF.

I’m almost in the same boat, just one year behind you.

Am I right to say you and your SO have been US taxable the entire time in Singapore? My SO is not US taxable, so I plan to realize any gains (tax free) under her name prior to our move to the US. A nonresident alien spouse is truly the best tax advantaged account a US person can have, but prior to becoming US taxable, you’ll want to “scrub” any foreign accounts and assets under their name to the greatest extent possible to avoid FATCA/FBAR/PFIC, etc.

Keeping the condo and renting it out while you’re gone makes it FATCA reportable and the rental income taxable - both in Singapore and the US (but foreign tax credits should apply).

If your condo is US taxable, sells within 2 years and the proceeds are reinvested in a US home, you might be able to do a 1031 exchange and avoid capital gains taxes. But if it goes enbloc after 3 years… capital gains taxes would apply.

I only have one bank account here and I plan to keep it. I also have an SRS account that can’t be liquidated until 2030, so no way to avoid FATCA anyway. I plan to keep my cheap $12/mo mobile plan going with SingTel and apply for the SingTel Visa which has no annual fee if a SingTel bill is charged. I don’t expect to use my other credit cards, so they will probably go dormant and without any activity, and it will be hard to avoid an annual fee to keep them going, so will probably have to cancel.

I don’t have CPF but my wife does. That is a keeper as it’s mostly paying 4%. CPF becomes like any other foreign bank account, except it might not be FATCA reportable (it’s a gray area) but the interest paid is US taxable. However, it’s generally best to liquidate or get an exemption to CPF LIFE before age 70, because the payments are generally not US tax friendly.

You’ll probably want to sell the car when the time comes. Lots of people buy near end of life vehicles to try and minimize their expenses, and they have the option to extend the COE.

[PNGMK]

Well guys, after over 20 years here we're getting ready to leave in the fall of 2023. It's actually a lot sooner than we realize, so before then I wanted to ask if anybody has any advice on things that need to be done before leaving. Appreciate information that includes timelines and specific recommendations. For now we have a condo that is fully paid off, a car with about two years left on the COE, and CPF.

Do you wish to maintain access to any of Singapore's services such as Medicare or medical insurance?

Do you need to shield your savings from court action or potential law suits or divorce?

If yes then don't cancel the CPF accounts.

[malcontent]

Well guys, after over 20 years here we're getting ready to leave in the fall of 2023. It's actually a lot sooner than we realize, so before then I wanted to ask if anybody has any advice on things that need to be done before leaving. Appreciate information that includes timelines and specific recommendations. For now we have a condo that is fully paid off, a car with about two years left on the COE, and CPF.

Do you wish to maintain access to any of Singapore's services such as Medicare or medical insurance?

Do you need to shield your savings from court action or potential law suits or divorce?

If yes then don't cancel the CPF accounts.

I see no good reason to cash out of CPF before the age of 70 (at which time, CPF LIFE is unavoidable). Earning a steady minimum 4% is too good to pass up.

And I have nothing against CPF LIFE, but annuity payments such as these are just not US tax friendly. There are two ways to deal with this when approaching age 70. The first way is to apply for an exemption:

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/member/retiremen ... m-cpf-life

My wife qualifies for US social security under my work record, including a spousal benefit equal to 50% of my benefit — or if anything happens to me, she gets my full benefit, for the rest of her life. That should be sufficient, but if not, the only other way is to renounce and withdraw, but that would mean sayonara to ever living in Singapore again.

[Lisafuller]

Well guys, after over 20 years here we're getting ready to leave in the fall of 2023. It's actually a lot sooner than we realize, so before then I wanted to ask if anybody has any advice on things that need to be done before leaving. Appreciate information that includes timelines and specific recommendations. For now we have a condo that is fully paid off, a car with about two years left on the COE, and CPF.

Do you wish to maintain access to any of Singapore's services such as Medicare or medical insurance?

Do you need to shield your savings from court action or potential law suits or divorce?

If yes then don't cancel the CPF accounts.

Quite honestly, I don't know if I ever intend to be back. By the time she's done with college, I'll be pretty close to retirement age, and at that point, I don't think I'll want to do a huge international move again. What would you do in this case?

[Lisafuller]

Well guys, after over 20 years here we're getting ready to leave in the fall of 2023. It's actually a lot sooner than we realize, so before then I wanted to ask if anybody has any advice on things that need to be done before leaving. Appreciate information that includes timelines and specific recommendations. For now we have a condo that is fully paid off, a car with about two years left on the COE, and CPF.

Do you wish to maintain access to any of Singapore's services such as Medicare or medical insurance?

Do you need to shield your savings from court action or potential law suits or divorce?

If yes then don't cancel the CPF accounts.

I see no good reason to cash out of CPF before the age of 70 (at which time, CPF LIFE is unavoidable). Earning a steady minimum 4% is too good to pass up.

And I have nothing against CPF LIFE, but annuity payments such as these are just not US tax friendly. There are two ways to deal with this when approaching age 70. The first way is to apply for an exemption:

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/member/retiremen ... m-cpf-life

My wife qualifies for US social security under my work record, including a spousal benefit equal to 50% of my benefit — or if anything happens to me, she gets my full benefit, for the rest of her life. That should be sufficient, but if not, the only other way is to renounce and withdraw, but that would mean sayonara to ever living in Singapore again.

You make a good point, but if I'm no longer living here, is there even any use keeping my PR?

[malcontent]

Do you wish to maintain access to any of Singapore's services such as Medicare or medical insurance?

Do you need to shield your savings from court action or potential law suits or divorce?

If yes then don't cancel the CPF accounts.

I see no good reason to cash out of CPF before the age of 70 (at which time, CPF LIFE is unavoidable). Earning a steady minimum 4% is too good to pass up.

And I have nothing against CPF LIFE, but annuity payments such as these are just not US tax friendly. There are two ways to deal with this when approaching age 70. The first way is to apply for an exemption:

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/member/retiremen ... m-cpf-life

My wife qualifies for US social security under my work record, including a spousal benefit equal to 50% of my benefit — or if anything happens to me, she gets my full benefit, for the rest of her life. That should be sufficient, but if not, the only other way is to renounce and withdraw, but that would mean sayonara to ever living in Singapore again.

You make a good point, but if I'm no longer living here, is there even any use keeping my PR?

You might not have a choice at your next REP renewal, but that doesn’t mean you have to withdraw your CPF.

And anyone reading this, feel free to correct me… but as I understand it, you also don’t have to renounce PR after your REP expires, it is just subject to cancellation. Allegedly you can still return to Singapore in this situation and attempt to get PR back and renew your REP, but obviously there are no guarantees.

Maybe you should also ask, what do you gain by renouncing?

[PNGMK]

It sounds as though you are "going finish" as we used to say in PNG when expats left for good.

[malcontent]

It sounds as though you are "going finish" as we used to say in PNG when expats left for good.

I guess there is always an expectation that most expats will either repat or go native.

Neither extreme has any appeal to me. I’d rather be a perpetual traveler than be forced to choose.

[Lisafuller]

It sounds as though you are "going finish" as we used to say in PNG when expats left for good.

Obviously, I'll come back to visit, but I don't think I'll ever live here permanently again.

[Lisafuller]

It sounds as though you are "going finish" as we used to say in PNG when expats left for good.

I guess there is always an expectation that most expats will either repat or go native.

Neither extreme has any appeal to me. I’d rather be a perpetual traveler than be forced to choose.

If you're a perpetual traveler, then you'll never have a real home. I guess you can say the world is your home, but I like the idea of having a homebase.

[Lisafuller]

I see no good reason to cash out of CPF before the age of 70 (at which time, CPF LIFE is unavoidable). Earning a steady minimum 4% is too good to pass up.

And I have nothing against CPF LIFE, but annuity payments such as these are just not US tax friendly. There are two ways to deal with this when approaching age 70. The first way is to apply for an exemption:

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/member/retiremen ... m-cpf-life

My wife qualifies for US social security under my work record, including a spousal benefit equal to 50% of my benefit — or if anything happens to me, she gets my full benefit, for the rest of her life. That should be sufficient, but if not, the only other way is to renounce and withdraw, but that would mean sayonara to ever living in Singapore again.

You make a good point, but if I'm no longer living here, is there even any use keeping my PR?

You might not have a choice at your next REP renewal, but that doesn’t mean you have to withdraw your CPF.

And anyone reading this, feel free to correct me… but as I understand it, you also don’t have to renounce PR after your REP expires, it is just subject to cancellation. Allegedly you can still return to Singapore in this situation and attempt to get PR back and renew your REP, but obviously there are no guarantees.

Maybe you should also ask, what do you gain by renouncing?

Well, renouncing means I can take all my assets with me, but now that I hear your point about accumulating interest, it does have its appeal. Aren't there any restrictions on having PR without actually living here?

[Lisafuller]

You make a good point, but if I'm no longer living here, is there even any use keeping my PR?

You might not have a choice at your next REP renewal, but that doesn’t mean you have to withdraw your CPF.

And anyone reading this, feel free to correct me… but as I understand it, you also don’t have to renounce PR after your REP expires, it is just subject to cancellation. Allegedly you can still return to Singapore in this situation and attempt to get PR back and renew your REP, but obviously there are no guarantees.

Maybe you should also ask, what do you gain by renouncing?

Well, renouncing means I can take all my assets with me, but now that I hear your point about accumulating interest, it does have its appeal. Aren't there any restrictions on having PR without actually living here?

I only say this because I can't imagine the government would be so kind as to allow me to reap the benefits of living here without actually living here/have SG as a safety net in case I get sick of the US.

[sundaymorningstaple]

You might not have a choice at your next REP renewal, but that doesn’t mean you have to withdraw your CPF.

And anyone reading this, feel free to correct me… but as I understand it, you also don’t have to renounce PR after your REP expires, it is just subject to cancellation. Allegedly you can still return to Singapore in this situation and attempt to get PR back and renew your REP, but obviously there are no guarantees.

Maybe you should also ask, what do you gain by renouncing?

Well, renouncing means I can take all my assets with me, but now that I hear your point about accumulating interest, it does have its appeal. Aren't there any restrictions on having PR without actually living here?

I only say this because I can't imagine the government would be so kind as to allow me to reap the benefits of living here without actually living here/have SG as a safety net in case I get sick of the US.

Lisa, you can leave it in CPF till the cows come home. They are earning much more than your 4% interest in the investments made with it by temasek and the other investment arm of the gahment. I have a long time Kiwi friend who is now living in Darwin, he worked here on a couple of projects back in the 80's when EP holders had to pay into CPF at a 20:20 rate like everybody else who were PR or SGCs This was eventually eliminated for Work Pass holders but those with the accounts were free to keep their funds there. I've been his postal drop here for over 20 years looking after his condo and interacting with the RE agents for the rentals, etc, etc. Anyway, he's left his contributions there for around 30 years and they have compounded nicely, needless to say. It's still sitting there. But he can withdraw it all anytime he wants. He's never been a PR.

[Lisafuller]

Well, renouncing means I can take all my assets with me, but now that I hear your point about accumulating interest, it does have its appeal. Aren't there any restrictions on having PR without actually living here?

I only say this because I can't imagine the government would be so kind as to allow me to reap the benefits of living here without actually living here/have SG as a safety net in case I get sick of the US.

Lisa, you can leave it in CPF till the cows come home. They are earning much more than your 4% interest in the investments made with it by temasek and the other investment arm of the gahment. I have a long time Kiwi friend who is now living in Darwin, he worked here on a couple of projects back in the 80's when EP holders had to pay into CPF at a 20:20 rate like everybody else who were PR or SGCs This was eventually eliminated for Work Pass holders but those with the accounts were free to keep their funds there. I've been his postal drop here for over 20 years looking after his condo and interacting with the RE agents for the rentals, etc, etc. Anyway, he's left his contributions there for around 30 years and they have compounded nicely, needless to say. It's still sitting there. But he can withdraw it all anytime he wants. He's never been a PR.

Right, but since I'm not of age to withdraw it yet, wouldn't renouncing my PR allow me to access it early?