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How to actually move out of Singapore

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PNGMK
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Re: How to actually move out of SG

Post by PNGMK » Mon, 20 Feb 2023 8:45 am

I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
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Re: How to actually move out of SG

Post by malcontent » Mon, 20 Feb 2023 8:49 am

I saw someone with a carry-on pet on a flight recently. I’m pretty sure it was an ANA flight to the US. That can work for smaller pets, just have to check around.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: How to actually move out of SG

Post by PNGMK » Mon, 20 Feb 2023 9:04 am

malcontent wrote:
Mon, 20 Feb 2023 8:49 am
I saw someone with a carry-on pet on a flight recently. I’m pretty sure it was an ANA flight to the US. That can work for smaller pets, just have to check around.
Good to know.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: How to actually move out of SG

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 20 Feb 2023 11:38 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Mon, 20 Feb 2023 7:52 am
Some airlines (and SQ is one of them) have cracked down on taking dogs in the cabin. I would check with Detla / United etc first. We need to take our cat back end of 2026 so I am interested in finding out the answer too.
Delta, United, American, and JetBlue all allow pets in cabin. However, there are very strict size restrictions and unfortunately, my dog, while small, is not small enough. A cat should be fine, unless it's a giant like a Maine coon. what you'll have to do is figure out transport for the first leg of the journey; British doesn't take pets directly and it's a pain in the you know what to arrange it on your own. SQ takes pets as checked baggage and cargo.

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Re: How to actually move out of SG

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 20 Feb 2023 11:41 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Mon, 20 Feb 2023 8:45 am
Singapore Air allow in hold pets.

https://www.singaporeair.com/en_UK/sg/t ... with-pets/
I'm not sure what you mean by in hold pets. There are only two ways to transport an animal with SQ, either as checked baggage or as cargo as they don't allow pets in cabin. The former is the cheapest option, for flights to the US, they charge by a per piece concept, where the animal and the carrier each count as one piece. Total shouldn't be more than $500. The cost to transport a pet in cargo depends not on weight, but volume. We were quoted $700 for our dog, but we'd have to drop him off at cargo whereas SQ would just take him at check-in.

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Re: How to actually move out of SG

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 20 Feb 2023 11:42 pm

malcontent wrote:
Mon, 20 Feb 2023 8:49 am
I saw someone with a carry-on pet on a flight recently. I’m pretty sure it was an ANA flight to the US. That can work for smaller pets, just have to check around.
Flights within the US tend to have a lot more lenient measures.

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Re: How to actually move out of SG

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 20 Feb 2023 11:42 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Mon, 20 Feb 2023 9:04 am
malcontent wrote:
Mon, 20 Feb 2023 8:49 am
I saw someone with a carry-on pet on a flight recently. I’m pretty sure it was an ANA flight to the US. That can work for smaller pets, just have to check around.
Good to know.
What's more important is getting the cat into the US first.

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Re: How to actually move out of SG

Post by PNGMK » Mon, 20 Feb 2023 11:48 pm

Lisafuller wrote:
Mon, 20 Feb 2023 11:38 pm
PNGMK wrote:
Mon, 20 Feb 2023 7:52 am
Some airlines (and SQ is one of them) have cracked down on taking dogs in the cabin. I would check with Detla / United etc first. We need to take our cat back end of 2026 so I am interested in finding out the answer too.
Delta, United, American, and JetBlue all allow pets in cabin. However, there are very strict size restrictions and unfortunately, my dog, while small, is not small enough. A cat should be fine, unless it's a giant like a Maine coon. what you'll have to do is figure out transport for the first leg of the journey; British doesn't take pets directly and it's a pain in the you know what to arrange it on your own. SQ takes pets as checked baggage and cargo.
If we were flying United all the way (Sin to SFO) could we not take the cat in the cabin? Honestly I'm sure I would want to unless it was sedated.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: How to actually move out of SG

Post by Lisafuller » Tue, 21 Feb 2023 1:48 am

PNGMK wrote:
Mon, 20 Feb 2023 11:48 pm
Lisafuller wrote:
Mon, 20 Feb 2023 11:38 pm
PNGMK wrote:
Mon, 20 Feb 2023 7:52 am
Some airlines (and SQ is one of them) have cracked down on taking dogs in the cabin. I would check with Detla / United etc first. We need to take our cat back end of 2026 so I am interested in finding out the answer too.
Delta, United, American, and JetBlue all allow pets in cabin. However, there are very strict size restrictions and unfortunately, my dog, while small, is not small enough. A cat should be fine, unless it's a giant like a Maine coon. what you'll have to do is figure out transport for the first leg of the journey; British doesn't take pets directly and it's a pain in the you know what to arrange it on your own. SQ takes pets as checked baggage and cargo.
If we were flying United all the way (Sin to SFO) could we not take the cat in the cabin? Honestly I'm sure I would want to unless it was sedated.
Technically you can, though this is contingent on there being room on the flight (the airlines all have a quota on in cabin pets, United's varies from 5-7). I wouldn't encourage this though, it's a very long flight, and as per their policy your pet is not allowed to leave the carrier for the duration of the flight, meaning you can't feed him, offer him water, pet him or even let him out to stretch. It'll ends up being a very rough trip, whereas in cargo/ baggage, the animals are put in a temperature controlled section of the plane, and are fed/watered by a staff member who makes sure everything is OK for the duration of the flight.

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Re: How to actually move out of SG

Post by silverken » Tue, 21 Mar 2023 9:48 am

malcontent wrote:
Fri, 27 Jan 2023 2:37 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Fri, 27 Jan 2023 1:56 am
Well guys, after over 20 years here we're getting ready to leave in the fall of 2023. It's actually a lot sooner than we realize, so before then I wanted to ask if anybody has any advice on things that need to be done before leaving. Appreciate information that includes timelines and specific recommendations. For now we have a condo that is fully paid off, a car with about two years left on the COE, and CPF.
I’m almost in the same boat, just one year behind you.

Am I right to say you and your SO have been US taxable the entire time in Singapore? My SO is not US taxable, so I plan to realize any gains (tax free) under her name prior to our move to the US. A nonresident alien spouse is truly the best tax advantaged account a US person can have, but prior to becoming US taxable, you’ll want to “scrub” any foreign accounts and assets under their name to the greatest extent possible to avoid FATCA/FBAR/PFIC, etc.

Keeping the condo and renting it out while you’re gone makes it FATCA reportable and the rental income taxable - both in Singapore and the US (but foreign tax credits should apply).

If your condo is US taxable, sells within 2 years and the proceeds are reinvested in a US home, you might be able to do a 1031 exchange and avoid capital gains taxes. But if it goes enbloc after 3 years… capital gains taxes would apply.

I only have one bank account here and I plan to keep it. I also have an SRS account that can’t be liquidated until 2030, so no way to avoid FATCA anyway. I plan to keep my cheap $12/mo mobile plan going with SingTel and apply for the SingTel Visa which has no annual fee if a SingTel bill is charged. I don’t expect to use my other credit cards, so they will probably go dormant and without any activity, and it will be hard to avoid an annual fee to keep them going, so will probably have to cancel.

I don’t have CPF but my wife does. That is a keeper as it’s mostly paying 4%. CPF becomes like any other foreign bank account, except it might not be FATCA reportable (it’s a gray area) but the interest paid is US taxable. However, it’s generally best to liquidate or get an exemption to CPF LIFE before age 70, because the payments are generally not US tax friendly.

You’ll probably want to sell the car when the time comes. Lots of people buy near end of life vehicles to try and minimize their expenses, and they have the option to extend the COE.
I have been trying to address similar issues for a while and still learning. Below are some of my understandings so far, (I could be wrong).
1. The most import thing is dealing with tax compliance and tax filing compliance, before leaving Singapore, in US later and future.
2. It will be tricky to realize any capital gain in Singapore without worldwide tax imposed by US if you are the account holder or joint account holder.
3. Real estate is not reportable for FATCA. Rental income for US person is always taxable by US and Singapore. If you own part of the condo, you are liable for US tax. Your rental income will be deposited in your bank account even if you are not in Singapore. Increase of bank deposit is an indication of having non-US source income. If you plan to transfer ownership to your spouse, you need to know tax and filing implications. Transfer ownership in Singapore also implies paying stamp duties.
4. Selling the house many months later after not residing in it could be a challenge to do 1031.
5. If your spouse is a non-resident alien returning back to US with you, your spouse will become a US person in no time so your spouse will need to deal with US tax issue. If your spouse became a US person, then dealing with FATCA is unavoidable if your spouse still has account in Singapore (including CPF) and has some kind of incomes (US sourced and non-US sourced) later. If your spouse is SC, then I think there is no way to escape CPF life except giving up Singapore citizenship. (or having another annuity plan as good as CPF life somewhere but you still need to convince CPFB).
6. US treats non-resident alien spouse in US very differently and badly if you need to deal with estate planning,
7. You are absolutely correct that US is not tax friendly. Receiving pay out from CPF Life could be expensive if expensive tax filing must be incurred. The cost of wiring payout to US could be expensive too even if you use "Wise".
8. Withdrawal from SRS is taxable in Singapore and US. Though you might be able to claim foreign tax credit, but that will complicate your tax filing in US.
9. You might want to explore alternative of Singpass which allows you to deal with IRAS in the future for SRS.
10. If you move back to community state (e.g. California), you might want to know all the implications.
11. Plan ahead how you want to transfer your asset (e.g. bank saving) back to US. Both Singapore and US bank are more than happy that you pay them expensive mark up, fees and use unfavorable exchange rate.
I think the approach is to keep it clean. Find out as much as possible for issues involved and have a plan to deal with them.
I hope we could share our findings among us in this forum.

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Re: How to actually move out of SG

Post by malcontent » Tue, 21 Mar 2023 12:41 pm

1. It is important, yes.
2. Ideally, realize any gains (but retain any losses) the year prior to establishing US personhood. Any gains and losses you “bring in” are not stepped up in basis when you become a US person. If you will only temporarily be a US person, you might still be able to escape taxes on the gains by not realizing them during your US personhood (avoiding deemed expat rules).
3. Real estate that you “reside in” is not FATCA reportable, but rental properties are. Everything else you said is correct, but you will likely qualify for a US foreign tax credit on Singapore taxes paid on the rental income.
4. To qualify for the 1031 exchange you need to reinvest the proceeds from one property into another within a certain time, this is true - but it works like a deferral, not an exemption.
5. Agree, except technically, government run social security type programs like CPF are excluded from FATCA reporting, but not FBAR.
6. It depends. If one spouse is a US citizen and the other is a NRA, the only estate planning scenario that is really “bad” is when US situs assets pass to the children from the NRA parent. Let’s say the USC spouse passes first, then the NRA spouse passes later but didn’t liquidate US situs assets prior to their demise - that is the only real gotcha. If the NRA parent had a gazillion dollars, and if they are all in non-US situs assets, it could pass to the children 100% tax free on an unlimited basis (this is also a great estate tax planning loophole for the ultra wealthy).
7. The cost of using Wise to transfer SGD to USD is around 0.5%. Tax filing is also not the big expense; it’s really how each payment is taxed, as ordinary income (the worst kind). You just need to decide how to handle CPF LIFE before age 70. For example, if you decide to retire for good in Hawaii, then just renounce and withdraw all the cash, tax free.
8. Withdrawal from SRS is not taxable in the US anymore than a withdrawal from any account is; it’s only the capital gains if you sell the underlying investment. I plan to do a in-kind transfer of my S27 shares held in SRS so I don’t trigger any capital gains tax when I withdraw from SRS. I will only owe Singapore tax.
9. Definitely keep Singpass going.
10. Not sure what you mean by this.
11. I don’t keep a lot of cash savings, it’s mostly invested; even what is sheltered under my NRA spouse - a simple ACAT transfer to another broker in the US will do the job cheaply and efficiently (after realizing all capital gains the year prior, of course).
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: How to actually move out of SG

Post by silverken » Thu, 23 Mar 2023 6:53 am

Thank you malcontent for his wonderful post.
Regarding 10 - In community state, different property types (separated and community properties) have implications for tax filing (if filed separately), liabilities to creditors/IRS, asset distribution if separated/divorce, etc. Joint account is a community property. if you wish to have clean separation or re-adjustment of asset allocation to separation and community properties for whatever reasons, we are better off to deal with it before transferring your asset to US. Transferring assets from community properties to separate properties for the worst case could cause all properties to be community properties.

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Re: How to actually move out of SG

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 20 Apr 2023 2:16 pm

Update to this, the hubby was diagnosed with squamous cell carcinoma about 3 weeks back. Have been so busy ferrying him to and from doctors appointments.

The doctors are very optimistic about his chances as it's quite early, but we now know for a fact that we won't be able to leave when our daughter does. The treatment is expected to finish in late August, after which he'll have to stay another three months to wait for a final scan before he is cleared and considered cancer free.

Times like this I'm grateful that we are PRs, and can benefit from subsidies.

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Re: How to actually move out of SG

Post by PNGMK » Thu, 20 Apr 2023 2:33 pm

Sorry to hear that Lisa, wishing your husband a full recovery. Skin cancer is such an issue in Australia. I've lost multiple relatives (3 to it and countless others have significant bits cut off or damage). It's not so common in Singapore - is it due to UV damage or you don't know?
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: How to actually move out of SG

Post by NYY1 » Thu, 20 Apr 2023 2:46 pm

Yes, also sorry to hear and wish him a full recovery. I assumed you were busy trying to help people pack up, but I guess unfortunately it was something else.

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