Should I apply PEP or PR ?

[jakejungle]

Hi guys,

I intend to apply PR this year.
Background: Vietnamese, in SG for 8 years, grad from NTU, currently doing SWE (IT) industry.

My friends say my background stands a high chance for PR, but I saw many cases of my seniors who applied and failed (quite a similar backgrounds).

On the other hand, I saw that there is PEP (Personalized EP), which I actually also qualified to apply.

So should I apply for PEP first, does having PEP increase the chance for PR application?

Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks

[sundaymorningstaple]

It only gives you one extra year to decide if you want to apply for PR but currently with PR approvals taking between 12 & 24 months. You probably would be wiser to stay on an EP as if you go to a PEP it is non-renewable and non-extendable. Then if not successful you need to hope your company still has internal headcount available to apply for a new EP. You could very easily find yourself in deep brown stuff if you are not careful. But. If you are a gambling man......

[jakejungle]

It only gives you one extra year to decide if you want to apply for PR but currently with PR approvals taking between 12 & 24 months. You probably would be wiser to stay on an EP as if you go to a PEP it is non-renewable and non-extendable. Then if not successful you need to hope your company still has internal headcount available to apply for a new EP. You could very easily find yourself in deep brown stuff if you are not careful. But. If you are a gambling man......

Tahnks for the answer.
Currently I am a EP holders (expiring in 2024). So if I go for PEP and successful , it will be converted to PEP for 3 years, and after that my company just need to reapply EP for me right. What is the gambling part here, can you help to elaborate, thanks

[sundaymorningstaple]

Depends on who you work for. Lots of large companies and especially MNCs have internal headcounts for their own staff. They use external staffing companies for additional personnel and some of them can stay for many years. The benefit of that is they don't need to maintain a large permanent staff. Easy to get rid of or hire temp/contract staff who are under the employment of the manpower supplier when it's time to downsize/upsize. While you may be a full time employee now, if you opt out for PEP, unrenewable, You position may well be jeopardized within the company if they no longer have an in-company quota for another foreigner (they may well be over staffed with foreigners. This is the gamble you take. The odds? I have no idea, but I've had to juggle quota and manpower between 7 companies before I retired (all owned by the same group but all individual companies) Sometime it's gets rough and sometimes there are ramifications where you lose staff you don't want to lose. It happens. Can you see the company 3 years down the road and tell where they are going to be from a business perspective (especially after something like the last 3 years?) I'm not say do or don't but just throwing my thoughts out there from a retired HR Mgr's perspective.

[NYY1]

Also, what advantage does PEP give over EP if applying for PR (original question)? I don't see how it helps (although I could be wrong).

In addition to the issues raised above, your current employer may also wonder why one wanted to switch to PEP? May not matter or it could send the wrong signals.

Unless one is concerned about getting whacked in the near-term, my gut reaction is stay on EP. PEP buys you a bit more time if you lose your job. However, given that you can't be unemployed for more than 6 months and still need to meet the annual salary requirements, most people will still be under the gun to find something soon.

Best of luck if you go ahead and apply for PR this year.

[jakejungle]

Depends on who you work for. Lots of large companies and especially MNCs have internal headcounts for their own staff. They use external staffing companies for additional personnel and some of them can stay for many years. The benefit of that is they don't need to maintain a large permanent staff. Easy to get rid of or hire temp/contract staff who are under the employment of the manpower supplier when it's time to downsize/upsize. While you may be a full time employee now, if you opt out for PEP, unrenewable, You position may well be jeopardized within the company if they no longer have an in-company quota for another foreigner (they may well be over staffed with foreigners. This is the gamble you take. The odds? I have no idea, but I've had to juggle quota and manpower between 7 companies before I retired (all owned by the same group but all individual companies) Sometime it's gets rough and sometimes there are ramifications where you lose staff you don't want to lose. It happens. Can you see the company 3 years down the road and tell where they are going to be from a business perspective (especially after something like the last 3 years?) I'm not say do or don't but just throwing my thoughts out there from a retired HR Mgr's perspective.

Because i am comparing me staying as EP versus converting to PEP. The risk that you mentioned that after 3 years, the company quota may changed and they not able to apply EP for me anymore. That's true, but isn't it the same if I stay as EP ? After 3 year, my EP expired and they still need to apply to renew.
Unless what you mean is EP renewable is easier? Or you mean I should save my PEP application when I'm in a company that doesn't have many EP quota?

[jakejungle]

Also, what advantage does PEP give over EP if applying for PR (original question)? I don't see how it helps (although I could be wrong).

In addition to the issues raised above, your current employer may also wonder why one wanted to switch to PEP? May not matter or it could send the wrong signals.

Unless one is concerned about getting whacked in the near-term, my gut reaction is stay on EP. PEP buys you a bit more time if you lose your job. However, given that you can't be unemployed for more than 6 months and still need to meet the annual salary requirements, most people will still be under the gun to find something soon.

Best of luck if you go ahead and apply for PR this year.

I don't know to be honest, because the result of PR is very random. I guess my rationale is PEP (at least to my opinion) is a bit superior to normal EP, therefore may have much more chance in PR review ?

I have discussed this with the HR, actually my company EP quota is not many, so switch to PEP actually help them, and they also encourage me to do so.
One of the reason is PEP criteria of salary is increasing to double from next Sep ( ~23k), which I think I will no longer be qualified anymore (in near future I guess), that's why I'm thinking to take the chance in this stage before they increase the criteria

[NYY1]

Also, what advantage does PEP give over EP if applying for PR (original question)? I don't see how it helps (although I could be wrong).

In addition to the issues raised above, your current employer may also wonder why one wanted to switch to PEP? May not matter or it could send the wrong signals.

Unless one is concerned about getting whacked in the near-term, my gut reaction is stay on EP. PEP buys you a bit more time if you lose your job. However, given that you can't be unemployed for more than 6 months and still need to meet the annual salary requirements, most people will still be under the gun to find something soon.

Best of luck if you go ahead and apply for PR this year.

I don't know to be honest, because the result of PR is very random. I guess my rationale is PEP (at least to my opinion) is a bit superior to normal EP, therefore may have much more chance in PR review ?

I have discussed this with the HR, actually my company EP quota is not many, so switch to PEP actually help them, and they also encourage me to do so.
One of the reason is PEP criteria of salary is increasing to double from next Sep ( ~23k), which I think I will no longer be qualified anymore (in near future I guess), that's why I'm thinking to take the chance in this stage before they increase the criteria

A few thoughts:

#1. As mentioned, I don't see a difference between EP and PEP for PR application. But I don't know this for fact so do what you feel is best or see if anyone else replies.

#2. I think what the post above is saying is a) company wants you to move to PEP so they can hire another EP (or renew someone else if they are over quota), b) assume the new EP gets renewed in two years and then you need to move back from PEP to EP in three years but there is no quota remaining at the company. Then what?

You are correct that if you are the most valuable employee in the company, they will bump someone else and find a way to retain you. And if you are on EP but they want to part ways and have no space or need to make space for someone else, they will let you go. Still, between these two outcomes it seems safer to be occupying one of the EP seats vs. playing musical chairs where you risk having no place to sit when the music stops. In the case where you are in the EP quota, the company would only be out of balance if there was a change in the local to EP employment ratios. This is definitely possible but a lot of things have to keep occurring in sequence. In contrast, if the company is always at the EP limit, there is never any space to take back someone on PEP absent other changes (i.e. let someone else go).

#3. As for EP renewal vs. new EP (after PEP), I think all we can know for sure is that the former can't be (or is unlikely to be) any more difficult (may not be any easier). But you are also correct that the time to apply for PEP is coming to a close due to the changing salary requirement later this year.

Has your company said how they plan to deal with the PEP expiry in three years (if moving from EP helps them now)? Maybe it doesn't really matter; three years is a long time in the current workforce and things change.

BTW, based on your time here, did you take the A Levels in Singapore or only come when starting at NTU?

Either way, best of luck and regards.

[PNGMK]

PEP is pointless except in very specific and unique cases where a person with unique skills is coming into Singapore for a limited period on their own cognizance and it a high earner (like $15k pm minimum) . It's a hangover from the old "professional employment pass" and should be deprecated.

[jakejungle]

Also, what advantage does PEP give over EP if applying for PR (original question)? I don't see how it helps (although I could be wrong).

In addition to the issues raised above, your current employer may also wonder why one wanted to switch to PEP? May not matter or it could send the wrong signals.

Unless one is concerned about getting whacked in the near-term, my gut reaction is stay on EP. PEP buys you a bit more time if you lose your job. However, given that you can't be unemployed for more than 6 months and still need to meet the annual salary requirements, most people will still be under the gun to find something soon.

Best of luck if you go ahead and apply for PR this year.

I don't know to be honest, because the result of PR is very random. I guess my rationale is PEP (at least to my opinion) is a bit superior to normal EP, therefore may have much more chance in PR review ?

I have discussed this with the HR, actually my company EP quota is not many, so switch to PEP actually help them, and they also encourage me to do so.
One of the reason is PEP criteria of salary is increasing to double from next Sep ( ~23k), which I think I will no longer be qualified anymore (in near future I guess), that's why I'm thinking to take the chance in this stage before they increase the criteria

A few thoughts:

#1. As mentioned, I don't see a difference between EP and PEP for PR application. But I don't know this for fact so do what you feel is best or see if anyone else replies.

#2. I think what the post above is saying is a) company wants you to move to PEP so they can hire another EP (or renew someone else if they are over quota), b) assume the new EP gets renewed in two years and then you need to move back from PEP to EP in three years but there is no quota remaining at the company. Then what?

You are correct that if you are the most valuable employee in the company, they will bump someone else and find a way to retain you. And if you are on EP but they want to part ways and have no space or need to make space for someone else, they will let you go. Still, between these two outcomes it seems safer to be occupying one of the EP seats vs. playing musical chairs where you risk having no place to sit when the music stops. In the case where you are in the EP quota, the company would only be out of balance if there was a change in the local to EP employment ratios. This is definitely possible but a lot of things have to keep occurring in sequence. In contrast, if the company is always at the EP limit, there is never any space to take back someone on PEP absent other changes (i.e. let someone else go).

#3. As for EP renewal vs. new EP (after PEP), I think all we can know for sure is that the former can't be (or is unlikely to be) any more difficult (may not be any easier). But you are also correct that the time to apply for PEP is coming to a close due to the changing salary requirement later this year.

Has your company said how they plan to deal with the PEP expiry in three years (if moving from EP helps them now)? Maybe it doesn't really matter; three years is a long time in the current workforce and things change.

BTW, based on your time here, did you take the A Levels in Singapore or only come when starting at NTU?

Either way, best of luck and regards.

thanks for the explanation,
well i came singapore only to start NTU

[taxico]

…actually my company EP quota is not many, so switch to PEP actually help them, and they also encourage me to do so.

for this reason alone, you should stay on EP. do not do whatever the company wants you to do. it’s for their benefit first and foremost.

the only person looking out for yourself is… you.

[IvanSamsonov]

PEP eligible salary gonna be 22500 (base) for all applications approved after september or august this year. So if you don't earn that much I suggest you to apply for PEP now

There is no issue to go back to EP in MNC. At least my company stopped hiring contractors, only FTE.

[sundaymorningstaple]

There is no issue to go back to EP in MNC. At least my company stopped hiring contractors, only FTE.

You obviously either have had too much Absolut or . . . .

[tiktok]

It's useful as an insurance policy too. If you get laid off, you won't be under the gun to find a new job in 30 days. When you have kids in school here this is more of a concern.

PEP is pointless except in very specific and unique cases where a person with unique skills is coming into Singapore for a limited period on their own cognizance and it a high earner (like $15k pm minimum) . It's a hangover from the old "professional employment pass" and should be deprecated.

[sundaymorningstaple]

It's useful as an insurance policy too. If you get laid off, you won't be under the gun to find a new job in 30 days. When you have kids in school here this is more of a concern.

PEP is pointless except in very specific and unique cases where a person with unique skills is coming into Singapore for a limited period on their own cognizance and it a high earner (like $15k pm minimum) . It's a hangover from the old "professional employment pass" and should be deprecated.

It's an insurance policy that can bite you in the arse. You apply for PEP and are successful. Your employer, due to a resurgence of covid, downsizes or closes up shop and your current salary just over 12K (I won't throw the new figure into the mix to save confusion-easy enough to do the math). You lose your job on Jan 1. You have 6 months to find a new position that will support the required annual salary requirements of 144K. Lets say you don't find a new offer until 3 months have expired. 25% of the year is gone. You annual PEP salary requirement is still 144K. In order to keep your PEP you would need a minimum salary of 144K / 9 mos = 16K/mo new salary. If you went 6 month(max before losing PEP) the new salary would need to be 24K/month. Add to that you would still be incurring your normal living costs and a one day over the 6 months and your PEP is gone. With the new base coming into play it's going to be even worse. Guess which ethnic group is going to really get burned near the end of this year.