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Help with husband's PR application

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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velvizhi.palai
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Help with husband's PR application

Post by velvizhi.palai » Wed, 21 Dec 2022 2:26 am

It will be a year since my husband applied for PR in first week January 2022. We still have not heard from ICA, despite appealing status through MP in July, and he has applied through his Employment Pass before but it was rejected.

If anyone could enlighten what is going wrong (or on) it will help a lot.

Nationality: Hong Kong
Race: Chinese
Age: 33+ yrs
Qualifications: Good Degree in Aeronautical Engineering Degree from Uni in Netherlands
Employment: Mechanical Engineer in MNC Aerospace Company (Employed here since Jan 2018)
Salary: Estimating reaches 70k including bonuses (Need to recalculate based on bonuses as it varies.)
Years in Singapore since moved here: Reaching 6 years (Total about 12 years from when born.)
Married: In SG in 2017 to Indian SC of more than 20+ years (born India but moved here before 2 yrs old. Mother, 3 elder and 1 younger brothers all natural born Singaporeans. Late father was Indian but died PR.) Working Full Time in Civil Service for 15 yrs. Good track record. Annual wage is about 100K
Child: SG born in SG, 4 yrs. In Sparkletots since few months old.

Complications: Was a 2Gen SC as born in HK. Elder brother and younger brother born in SG and Singaporeans. Mother also natural born Singaporean. Father was HK, then became PR/SC before marriage. Father was expat in HK when husband was born and didn't know to get him SC at birth. Clocked only few years in SG Upper PRI/Lower SEC sch, before moving to Netherlands. Returned to do NS, was officer. Returned to complete his studies in Netherlands. Didn't know he lost citizenship till many years after the event when he was rejected from traveling on his SG Passport to friend's wedding in Vietnam. Didn't know about taking oath at 21 to confirm citizenship. Years after this loss, we got back together, and realised I prefer living in SG, so returned back to Singapore for me. We got married later in 2017 in SG after he emigrated back to his parents' place here in SG.

However, though trying all means since then, could not regain his lost citizenship. His roots are here surely, as his life; family is here. Spent a year trying to regain citizenship but futile after seeing 2 different MPs (not same as recent high profile MP we saw - well the assistants. This time didn't even glimpse MP, and got a very quick letter- to wait.)

Were told he has to restart citizenship process like a foreigner and it has been frustrating nonetheless.

First time he applied using his Work Pass after 2 years here as was afraid they'd view our marriage as of convenience given our circumstances. He is on S Pass as that is the condition his employer employed him back in 2018. Had LTVP or something like that before that. Unwilling to change it apart from PR as doesn't want to rock the boat. His work has asked him to apply for PR many times. They replied after many many months outside normal frame, almost thrice or more as long, citing increased cases due to Covid. But still rejected. Letter has no explanation for that.

Now, applied after more than a year. Under Spouse Sponsor. I've been checking app everyday since 3 mths till giving up a few months ago as it is very discouraging. No news. They said normally 4 months on application... He's had increments in salary but nothing great to update details. Updated this when went to see MP. He's doing well in job since he joined them and has a few salary adjustments and gets those employee of the month prizes frequently but nowhere to declare such 'achievements'. I feel like his workplace feels sorry for his circumstance and don't know how to compensate him otherwise... His pay started very low but has caught up in past year after he applied to another branch when he found his job is quite stagnated here.

He didn't have any CPF to clear out... If he has, he didn't. He's returned his IC since returning to SG in 2017. His mother's family (maternal grandparents, aunts, cousins) all in SG. His parents retired to KL a few years now as they too having trouble applying for BTO. Both brothers studying/working overseas.

Can anyone advise what to do as really losing hope here; but stuck; stalemate. Wondering if getting PR/SC is of any benefit at this stage as we have paid off our condo which can consider our forever home, and are comfortable even living off his salary as we are very frugal people and don't have much expense. His work has excellent benefits so medical and all he is covered.

However if he loses this job, then we are in difficult straits as don't want to deal with his residency status being unsure. We went through a year of that in 2017. Very stressful.

Any idea if this prolonged wait is normal or a sign of trouble? What should we do to improve his chances in subsequent application though yes, we'll give it a rest for another year at least after this - if kenna rejected, again.

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Re: Help with husband's PR application

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 21 Dec 2022 12:39 pm

Frankly, a 12 month wait is not to long for PR even in normal circumstances. If you have read a number of our threads on this over the past couple of years, waits of up to 24~27 months have elapsed before a final determination has been given (either rejected or successful - length of time actually has no bearing on the chances - only on ICA having satisfied all their questions/investigations). Your husband's situation is rather convoluted so I reckon you may well have to wait quite a while longer or you may get a determination any day. There is absolutely no way to hurry the decision and going to an MP is useless as ICA is not beholden to an MP's letter. ICA, like INS in the USA are gods unto themselves. Normally the only letters that even make it to an officers desk is one based on a rejection, but even then, I've never heard of ICA changing their minds unless something of relative importance was left out of the original application (must be from before the application date, not after). You just have to wait it out and if a bad result, go back and regroup and see where you can improve. Or use plan B if you have one.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: Help with husband's PR application

Post by MOCHS » Wed, 21 Dec 2022 2:29 pm

Just check the ICA portal once a month, less stressful that way.

Only when the “upload documents” button disappears, that’s when the result is coming soon. Then you check daily until you see the outcome.

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Re: Help with husband's PR application

Post by singaporeflyer » Thu, 22 Dec 2022 10:24 am

velvizhi.palai wrote:
Wed, 21 Dec 2022 2:26 am
It will be a year since my husband applied for PR in first week January 2022. We still have not heard from ICA, despite appealing status through MP in July, and he has applied through his Employment Pass before but it was rejected.

If anyone could enlighten what is going wrong (or on) it will help a lot.

Nationality: Hong Kong
Race: Chinese
Age: 33+ yrs
Qualifications: Good Degree in Aeronautical Engineering Degree from Uni in Netherlands
Employment: Mechanical Engineer in MNC Aerospace Company (Employed here since Jan 2018)
Salary: Estimating reaches 70k including bonuses (Need to recalculate based on bonuses as it varies.)
Years in Singapore since moved here: Reaching 6 years (Total about 12 years from when born.)
Married: In SG in 2017 to Indian SC of more than 20+ years (born India but moved here before 2 yrs old. Mother, 3 elder and 1 younger brothers all natural born Singaporeans. Late father was Indian but died PR.) Working Full Time in Civil Service for 15 yrs. Good track record. Annual wage is about 100K
Child: SG born in SG, 4 yrs. In Sparkletots since few months old.

Complications: Was a 2Gen SC as born in HK. Elder brother and younger brother born in SG and Singaporeans. Mother also natural born Singaporean. Father was HK, then became PR/SC before marriage. Father was expat in HK when husband was born and didn't know to get him SC at birth. Clocked only few years in SG Upper PRI/Lower SEC sch, before moving to Netherlands. Returned to do NS, was officer. Returned to complete his studies in Netherlands. Didn't know he lost citizenship till many years after the event when he was rejected from traveling on his SG Passport to friend's wedding in Vietnam. Didn't know about taking oath at 21 to confirm citizenship. Years after this loss, we got back together, and realised I prefer living in SG, so returned back to Singapore for me. We got married later in 2017 in SG after he emigrated back to his parents' place here in SG.

However, though trying all means since then, could not regain his lost citizenship. His roots are here surely, as his life; family is here. Spent a year trying to regain citizenship but futile after seeing 2 different MPs (not same as recent high profile MP we saw - well the assistants. This time didn't even glimpse MP, and got a very quick letter- to wait.)

Were told he has to restart citizenship process like a foreigner and it has been frustrating nonetheless.

First time he applied using his Work Pass after 2 years here as was afraid they'd view our marriage as of convenience given our circumstances. He is on S Pass as that is the condition his employer employed him back in 2018. Had LTVP or something like that before that. Unwilling to change it apart from PR as doesn't want to rock the boat. His work has asked him to apply for PR many times. They replied after many many months outside normal frame, almost thrice or more as long, citing increased cases due to Covid. But still rejected. Letter has no explanation for that.

Now, applied after more than a year. Under Spouse Sponsor. I've been checking app everyday since 3 mths till giving up a few months ago as it is very discouraging. No news. They said normally 4 months on application... He's had increments in salary but nothing great to update details. Updated this when went to see MP. He's doing well in job since he joined them and has a few salary adjustments and gets those employee of the month prizes frequently but nowhere to declare such 'achievements'. I feel like his workplace feels sorry for his circumstance and don't know how to compensate him otherwise... His pay started very low but has caught up in past year after he applied to another branch when he found his job is quite stagnated here.

He didn't have any CPF to clear out... If he has, he didn't. He's returned his IC since returning to SG in 2017. His mother's family (maternal grandparents, aunts, cousins) all in SG. His parents retired to KL a few years now as they too having trouble applying for BTO. Both brothers studying/working overseas.

Can anyone advise what to do as really losing hope here; but stuck; stalemate. Wondering if getting PR/SC is of any benefit at this stage as we have paid off our condo which can consider our forever home, and are comfortable even living off his salary as we are very frugal people and don't have much expense. His work has excellent benefits so medical and all he is covered.

However if he loses this job, then we are in difficult straits as don't want to deal with his residency status being unsure. We went through a year of that in 2017. Very stressful.

Any idea if this prolonged wait is normal or a sign of trouble? What should we do to improve his chances in subsequent application though yes, we'll give it a rest for another year at least after this - if kenna rejected, again.
Did he complete his 2 years BMT in NS?

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Re: Help with husband's PR application

Post by therat » Thu, 22 Dec 2022 11:01 am

Quote from https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/thai- ... ion-time-i

The ICA said that underage citizens who obtain Singapore citizenship through blood ties or via application must complete their ORAL once they reach 21 years old to retain their citizenship.

An ICA spokesman said that it sent Mr Xu a letter to inform him of the necessary procedures before he turned 21 and another reminder six months before his 22nd birthday.

According to the constitution, once a person's citizenship is revoked, it will not be recoverable.

============
ICA send 2 letters. Both letter didn't receive?

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Re: Help with husband's PR application

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 22 Dec 2022 9:56 pm

velvizhi.palai wrote:
Wed, 21 Dec 2022 2:26 am
It will be a year since my husband applied for PR in first week January 2022. We still have not heard from ICA, despite appealing status through MP in July, and he has applied through his Employment Pass before but it was rejected.

If anyone could enlighten what is going wrong (or on) it will help a lot.

Nationality: Hong Kong
Race: Chinese
Age: 33+ yrs
Qualifications: Good Degree in Aeronautical Engineering Degree from Uni in Netherlands
Employment: Mechanical Engineer in MNC Aerospace Company (Employed here since Jan 2018)
Salary: Estimating reaches 70k including bonuses (Need to recalculate based on bonuses as it varies.)
Years in Singapore since moved here: Reaching 6 years (Total about 12 years from when born.)
Married: In SG in 2017 to Indian SC of more than 20+ years (born India but moved here before 2 yrs old. Mother, 3 elder and 1 younger brothers all natural born Singaporeans. Late father was Indian but died PR.) Working Full Time in Civil Service for 15 yrs. Good track record. Annual wage is about 100K
Child: SG born in SG, 4 yrs. In Sparkletots since few months old.

Complications: Was a 2Gen SC as born in HK. Elder brother and younger brother born in SG and Singaporeans. Mother also natural born Singaporean. Father was HK, then became PR/SC before marriage. Father was expat in HK when husband was born and didn't know to get him SC at birth. Clocked only few years in SG Upper PRI/Lower SEC sch, before moving to Netherlands. Returned to do NS, was officer. Returned to complete his studies in Netherlands. Didn't know he lost citizenship till many years after the event when he was rejected from traveling on his SG Passport to friend's wedding in Vietnam. Didn't know about taking oath at 21 to confirm citizenship. Years after this loss, we got back together, and realised I prefer living in SG, so returned back to Singapore for me. We got married later in 2017 in SG after he emigrated back to his parents' place here in SG.

However, though trying all means since then, could not regain his lost citizenship. His roots are here surely, as his life; family is here. Spent a year trying to regain citizenship but futile after seeing 2 different MPs (not same as recent high profile MP we saw - well the assistants. This time didn't even glimpse MP, and got a very quick letter- to wait.)

Were told he has to restart citizenship process like a foreigner and it has been frustrating nonetheless.

First time he applied using his Work Pass after 2 years here as was afraid they'd view our marriage as of convenience given our circumstances. He is on S Pass as that is the condition his employer employed him back in 2018. Had LTVP or something like that before that. Unwilling to change it apart from PR as doesn't want to rock the boat. His work has asked him to apply for PR many times. They replied after many many months outside normal frame, almost thrice or more as long, citing increased cases due to Covid. But still rejected. Letter has no explanation for that.

Now, applied after more than a year. Under Spouse Sponsor. I've been checking app everyday since 3 mths till giving up a few months ago as it is very discouraging. No news. They said normally 4 months on application... He's had increments in salary but nothing great to update details. Updated this when went to see MP. He's doing well in job since he joined them and has a few salary adjustments and gets those employee of the month prizes frequently but nowhere to declare such 'achievements'. I feel like his workplace feels sorry for his circumstance and don't know how to compensate him otherwise... His pay started very low but has caught up in past year after he applied to another branch when he found his job is quite stagnated here.

He didn't have any CPF to clear out... If he has, he didn't. He's returned his IC since returning to SG in 2017. His mother's family (maternal grandparents, aunts, cousins) all in SG. His parents retired to KL a few years now as they too having trouble applying for BTO. Both brothers studying/working overseas.

Can anyone advise what to do as really losing hope here; but stuck; stalemate. Wondering if getting PR/SC is of any benefit at this stage as we have paid off our condo which can consider our forever home, and are comfortable even living off his salary as we are very frugal people and don't have much expense. His work has excellent benefits so medical and all he is covered.

However if he loses this job, then we are in difficult straits as don't want to deal with his residency status being unsure. We went through a year of that in 2017. Very stressful.

Any idea if this prolonged wait is normal or a sign of trouble? What should we do to improve his chances in subsequent application though yes, we'll give it a rest for another year at least after this - if kenna rejected, again.
This is certainly odd... how was he unaware that he lost citizenship?

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Re: Help with husband's PR application

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 22 Dec 2022 9:58 pm

singaporeflyer wrote:
Thu, 22 Dec 2022 10:24 am
velvizhi.palai wrote:
Wed, 21 Dec 2022 2:26 am
It will be a year since my husband applied for PR in first week January 2022. We still have not heard from ICA, despite appealing status through MP in July, and he has applied through his Employment Pass before but it was rejected.

If anyone could enlighten what is going wrong (or on) it will help a lot.

Nationality: Hong Kong
Race: Chinese
Age: 33+ yrs
Qualifications: Good Degree in Aeronautical Engineering Degree from Uni in Netherlands
Employment: Mechanical Engineer in MNC Aerospace Company (Employed here since Jan 2018)
Salary: Estimating reaches 70k including bonuses (Need to recalculate based on bonuses as it varies.)
Years in Singapore since moved here: Reaching 6 years (Total about 12 years from when born.)
Married: In SG in 2017 to Indian SC of more than 20+ years (born India but moved here before 2 yrs old. Mother, 3 elder and 1 younger brothers all natural born Singaporeans. Late father was Indian but died PR.) Working Full Time in Civil Service for 15 yrs. Good track record. Annual wage is about 100K
Child: SG born in SG, 4 yrs. In Sparkletots since few months old.

Complications: Was a 2Gen SC as born in HK. Elder brother and younger brother born in SG and Singaporeans. Mother also natural born Singaporean. Father was HK, then became PR/SC before marriage. Father was expat in HK when husband was born and didn't know to get him SC at birth. Clocked only few years in SG Upper PRI/Lower SEC sch, before moving to Netherlands. Returned to do NS, was officer. Returned to complete his studies in Netherlands. Didn't know he lost citizenship till many years after the event when he was rejected from traveling on his SG Passport to friend's wedding in Vietnam. Didn't know about taking oath at 21 to confirm citizenship. Years after this loss, we got back together, and realised I prefer living in SG, so returned back to Singapore for me. We got married later in 2017 in SG after he emigrated back to his parents' place here in SG.

However, though trying all means since then, could not regain his lost citizenship. His roots are here surely, as his life; family is here. Spent a year trying to regain citizenship but futile after seeing 2 different MPs (not same as recent high profile MP we saw - well the assistants. This time didn't even glimpse MP, and got a very quick letter- to wait.)

Were told he has to restart citizenship process like a foreigner and it has been frustrating nonetheless.

First time he applied using his Work Pass after 2 years here as was afraid they'd view our marriage as of convenience given our circumstances. He is on S Pass as that is the condition his employer employed him back in 2018. Had LTVP or something like that before that. Unwilling to change it apart from PR as doesn't want to rock the boat. His work has asked him to apply for PR many times. They replied after many many months outside normal frame, almost thrice or more as long, citing increased cases due to Covid. But still rejected. Letter has no explanation for that.

Now, applied after more than a year. Under Spouse Sponsor. I've been checking app everyday since 3 mths till giving up a few months ago as it is very discouraging. No news. They said normally 4 months on application... He's had increments in salary but nothing great to update details. Updated this when went to see MP. He's doing well in job since he joined them and has a few salary adjustments and gets those employee of the month prizes frequently but nowhere to declare such 'achievements'. I feel like his workplace feels sorry for his circumstance and don't know how to compensate him otherwise... His pay started very low but has caught up in past year after he applied to another branch when he found his job is quite stagnated here.

He didn't have any CPF to clear out... If he has, he didn't. He's returned his IC since returning to SG in 2017. His mother's family (maternal grandparents, aunts, cousins) all in SG. His parents retired to KL a few years now as they too having trouble applying for BTO. Both brothers studying/working overseas.

Can anyone advise what to do as really losing hope here; but stuck; stalemate. Wondering if getting PR/SC is of any benefit at this stage as we have paid off our condo which can consider our forever home, and are comfortable even living off his salary as we are very frugal people and don't have much expense. His work has excellent benefits so medical and all he is covered.

However if he loses this job, then we are in difficult straits as don't want to deal with his residency status being unsure. We went through a year of that in 2017. Very stressful.

Any idea if this prolonged wait is normal or a sign of trouble? What should we do to improve his chances in subsequent application though yes, we'll give it a rest for another year at least after this - if kenna rejected, again.
Did he complete his 2 years BMT in NS?
OP mentioned he returned to SG for NS and was an officer.

Lisafuller
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Re: Help with husband's PR application

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 22 Dec 2022 9:59 pm

therat wrote:
Thu, 22 Dec 2022 11:01 am
Quote from https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/thai- ... ion-time-i

The ICA said that underage citizens who obtain Singapore citizenship through blood ties or via application must complete their ORAL once they reach 21 years old to retain their citizenship.

An ICA spokesman said that it sent Mr Xu a letter to inform him of the necessary procedures before he turned 21 and another reminder six months before his 22nd birthday.

According to the constitution, once a person's citizenship is revoked, it will not be recoverable.

============
ICA send 2 letters. Both letter didn't receive?
Wondering the same thing. Though, if OP was overseas it's possible that neither letter reached him.

therat
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Re: Help with husband's PR application

Post by therat » Thu, 22 Dec 2022 11:27 pm

Lisafuller wrote:
Thu, 22 Dec 2022 9:59 pm
therat wrote:
Thu, 22 Dec 2022 11:01 am
Quote from https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/thai- ... ion-time-i

The ICA said that underage citizens who obtain Singapore citizenship through blood ties or via application must complete their ORAL once they reach 21 years old to retain their citizenship.

An ICA spokesman said that it sent Mr Xu a letter to inform him of the necessary procedures before he turned 21 and another reminder six months before his 22nd birthday.

According to the constitution, once a person's citizenship is revoked, it will not be recoverable.

============
ICA send 2 letters. Both letter didn't receive?
Wondering the same thing. Though, if OP was overseas it's possible that neither letter reached him.
alot of unknown information.
1. what age he come back from NS
2. Where or who he stay with during his NS.
3. when he left after NS, did he left any contact address

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velvizhi.palai
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Re: Help with husband's PR application

Post by velvizhi.palai » Wed, 28 Dec 2022 6:24 am

Hi,

I think the first 2 replies helped abate my anxiety a lot. Thanks a lot!

Good advise and yes, the expected 4-6 months on ICA website is definitely misleading.

Completed NS. BMT only few months right?

Letters unopened as sent to local address. Entire family living overseas for more than a decade.

Family moved to Netherlands at 14, returned to Singapore for NS for 2+ years, returned to Netherlands to continue study etc.

He never traveled, nor liked to otherwise, so didn't need passport till friend's wedding in Vietnam. Being in Europe, those small trips don't need passport because of Schengen scheme. Again, didn't travel till after this loss of citizenship issue, and I know as I forced him on Europe road trip before we got married. Even I didn't need passport apart from when I arrived and departed Europe.

I think ICA allowing foreign address on IC is a good move as it is acknowledgment that not all Singaporeans live in Singapore, or have an active address in Singapore. I don't think a decade ago++ they allowed foreign address.

Lastly, thanks all.

Lisafuller
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Re: Help with husband's PR application

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 29 Dec 2022 2:20 am

therat wrote:
Thu, 22 Dec 2022 11:27 pm
Lisafuller wrote:
Thu, 22 Dec 2022 9:59 pm
therat wrote:
Thu, 22 Dec 2022 11:01 am
Quote from https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/thai- ... ion-time-i

The ICA said that underage citizens who obtain Singapore citizenship through blood ties or via application must complete their ORAL once they reach 21 years old to retain their citizenship.

An ICA spokesman said that it sent Mr Xu a letter to inform him of the necessary procedures before he turned 21 and another reminder six months before his 22nd birthday.

According to the constitution, once a person's citizenship is revoked, it will not be recoverable.

============
ICA send 2 letters. Both letter didn't receive?
Wondering the same thing. Though, if OP was overseas it's possible that neither letter reached him.
alot of unknown information.
1. what age he come back from NS
2. Where or who he stay with during his NS.
3. when he left after NS, did he left any contact address
Assuming OP came back around 18 to 19 to serve.

Lisafuller
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Answers: 3

Re: Help with husband's PR application

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 29 Dec 2022 2:21 am

velvizhi.palai wrote:
Wed, 28 Dec 2022 6:24 am
Hi,

I think the first 2 replies helped abate my anxiety a lot. Thanks a lot!

Good advise and yes, the expected 4-6 months on ICA website is definitely misleading.

Completed NS. BMT only few months right?

Letters unopened as sent to local address. Entire family living overseas for more than a decade.

Family moved to Netherlands at 14, returned to Singapore for NS for 2+ years, returned to Netherlands to continue study etc.

He never traveled, nor liked to otherwise, so didn't need passport till friend's wedding in Vietnam. Being in Europe, those small trips don't need passport because of Schengen scheme. Again, didn't travel till after this loss of citizenship issue, and I know as I forced him on Europe road trip before we got married. Even I didn't need passport apart from when I arrived and departed Europe.

I think ICA allowing foreign address on IC is a good move as it is acknowledgment that not all Singaporeans live in Singapore, or have an active address in Singapore. I don't think a decade ago++ they allowed foreign address.

Lastly, thanks all.
So there was no attempt to update ICA on the overseas address?

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