Moving back to Singapore - Local or International School

[olivepicklejuice]

Hi,

First - apologies if our situation has already been discussed at length before. We'd like to get opinion on our dilemma that we're currently having.

We have 2 children and are in the process of moving back to Singapore after 6 years in Oz. We hold SPR and have an option for our kids to be enrolled at local primary school.

Our eldest is currently in year 5 and is pretty upset to be leaving her current school and not able to graduate primary school with her friends next year.

Our options are as follow:
1.) Move back in time for new primary school year in January 2023 and send the kids to local school. This means our daughter will have to repeat year 5 due to her age (different cutoff between SG and OZ).

2.) Let my hubby make the move first and we follow in Dec 2023 to allow our daughter to complete her primary school and then move back. Our daughter will however need to start year 6 and will only have a short time to adjust to new curriculum before her year 6 exams. We are worried this will put too much pressure on the child.

3.) Third option is to send her to International School to start secondary school. We are not sure though whether this will be a good option considering we would like to make Singapore our new home in the foreseeable future.How hard will it be for SPR to go into local uni as an international high school graduate?

looking forward to hear any feedback.

[NYY1]

Hi,

First - apologies if our situation has already been discussed at length before. We'd like to get opinion on our dilemma that we're currently having.

We have 2 children and are in the process of moving back to Singapore after 6 years in Oz. We hold SPR and have an option for our kids to be enrolled at local primary school.

Our eldest is currently in year 5 and is pretty upset to be leaving her current school and not able to graduate primary school with her friends next year.

Our options are as follow:
1.) Move back in time for new primary school year in January 2023 and send the kids to local school. This means our daughter will have to repeat year 5 due to her age (different cutoff between SG and OZ).

2.) Let my hubby make the move first and we follow in Dec 2023 to allow our daughter to complete her primary school and then move back. Our daughter will however need to start year 6 and will only have a short time to adjust to new curriculum before her year 6 exams. We are worried this will put too much pressure on the child.

3.) Third option is to send her to International School to start secondary school. We are not sure though whether this will be a good option considering we would like to make Singapore our new home in the foreseeable future.How hard will it be for SPR to go into local uni as an international high school graduate?

looking forward to hear any feedback.

Hi. For the local route, if you are going to take PSLE (Year 6) in 2024, I think most would recommend trying to get back in January 2023. Do note that your child will have to take Mother Tongue (Chinese, Malay, Tamil or other Non-Tamil Indian Language) as a subject at PSLE or get an exemption; not sure where your child's 2nd language skills are currently at. The other option is to return in Jan 2025 (if otherwise logistically possible) and take SPERS, which only tests Math and English.

For your third question, I think (?) if you stick with an IB School then it should not pose any additional difficulties to enter local uni. I believe you can still enter local uni as a PR with foreign qualifications, but how the standard is viewed may be different. Note that a PR into the local uni still needs to meet the Mother Tongue Language requirement (which would be met via Language Acquisition or Category 2 under the IB curriculum) if not otherwise exempted.

There are three "local International Schools" that you could consider; Hwa Chong International, ACS International, and St Joseph Institution International. The first two only start in Sec 1 (Year 7) while SJII also has a primary school.

[malcontent]

Hi,

First - apologies if our situation has already been discussed at length before. We'd like to get opinion on our dilemma that we're currently having.

We have 2 children and are in the process of moving back to Singapore after 6 years in Oz. We hold SPR and have an option for our kids to be enrolled at local primary school.

Our eldest is currently in year 5 and is pretty upset to be leaving her current school and not able to graduate primary school with her friends next year.

Our options are as follow:
1.) Move back in time for new primary school year in January 2023 and send the kids to local school. This means our daughter will have to repeat year 5 due to her age (different cutoff between SG and OZ).

2.) Let my hubby make the move first and we follow in Dec 2023 to allow our daughter to complete her primary school and then move back. Our daughter will however need to start year 6 and will only have a short time to adjust to new curriculum before her year 6 exams. We are worried this will put too much pressure on the child.

3.) Third option is to send her to International School to start secondary school. We are not sure though whether this will be a good option considering we would like to make Singapore our new home in the foreseeable future.How hard will it be for SPR to go into local uni as an international high school graduate?

looking forward to hear any feedback.

If you are wholly dedicated to sinking roots in Singapore long-term, then option #1 is the only one that makes sense — just rip the bandage off, get both kids into the local system as early as possible… your children will adapt. You should also look to apply for citizenship sooner rather than later. There is no point wasting time and money as a PR if you are dedicated to staying.

I would only consider options 2 and 3 to the extent you are less than fully dedicated to making Singapore your permanent home in the long-term and want to keep your options open. One exception is if you have a child that is truly a square peg that wouldn’t fit in Singapore’s round hole of education. But in such a case, it would be best not to move back, in all honesty.

[therat]

My thought.
Option 1 will be better.
Dont join the school in Primary 6 too stress for the kid
Primary 6 will be taking PSLE which test primary 5 and 6 lesson.
PSLE result will determinate which road you will take for Secondary school

I found this map, can show you a better picture how it look like

[PNGMK]

The absolutely harsh reality is that your kid will probably do poorly in PSLE and end up in a shite school because preparing for PSLE is a 6 years program (a local neighborhood school is NOT such a bad thing - better to be good in a shite school than do badly in a good school). If you duck PSLE then you're going to end up balloting for a place for a secondary school and MOE will probably stick your kid in a school a long way away.

I would come back ASAP. Get the kid into a local primary. Accept the PSLE result and then move them into a local secondary school and focus hard on getting good O levels and then determining if you move them into an IB / Australian or GCSE school.

If your adamant on allowing her to complete primary school in Australia then you're closing options for secondary schools right down. You'll end up putting her on a bus for a 90 min ride to some far flung secondary school.

Ultimately where do you want them to go to Uni? That needs to be factored in as well. Assuming Australia they will either need O levels from here and then 1 or 2 years in the Australian state at a pre Uni college (like Canning College in WA) or they will need A levels with good marks from a local JC (which means they MUST do well here in the O levels). For local the GOOD local unis you absolutely need good A level marks and it is highly competitive. The Poly / Uni route is viable as well for O level students (my son went that route and it's perfectly ok). NUS and NTU are now ranked as some of the best Unis in the world (top 20 or so) but as a result it's really hard to get in now.

I would probably avoid the International Australian School here. It's ok but bloody expensive.

I am not a fan of IB. (My wife is a high school teacher in an International School - she's basically said IB is for softcocks).

[therat]

abt IB, please take note.
1. It is a 6 yr straight from PSLE to A level. It dont have O level.
Some oversea University dont realize A level, they only realize O level. Which mean the child need to go and take O level. Some stay back 1 yrs just to take that O level

2. if the A level result not good, or didn't manage to finish. The highest cerf the child have is PSLE cerf.

If take IB road, the kid have to ensure/make sure finish IB with flying A level result.

[PNGMK]

abt IB, please take note.
1. It is a 6 yr straight from PSLE to A level. It dont have O level.
Some oversea University dont realize A level, they only realize O level. Which mean the child need to go and take O level. Some stay back 1 yrs just to take that O level

2. if the A level result not good, or didn't manage to finish. The highest cerf the child have is PSLE cerf.

If take IB road, the kid have to ensure/make sure finish IB with flying A level result.

Yes O level is a surprisingly well recognized cert. IB sucks. Just saying it again.

[NYY1]

abt IB, please take note.
1. It is a 6 yr straight from PSLE to A level. It dont have O level.
Some oversea University dont realize A level, they only realize O level. Which mean the child need to go and take O level. Some stay back 1 yrs just to take that O level

2. if the A level result not good, or didn't manage to finish. The highest cerf the child have is PSLE cerf.

If take IB road, the kid have to ensure/make sure finish IB with flying A level result.

I think you are confusing IB (International Baccalaureate) and IP (Integrated Programme). IP does not do O Level but it can end in A Level (RI, et) or IB (ACS(I), etc).

For IP (A Level or IB) schools, there are some off ramps if the student is unfortunately struggling. Some schools will move to O Level track or the student can do something else after Sec 4 (apply Poly with IP4 certificate, try to take IB in one of the International Schools, or go overseas if the parents can afford).

For the three "local International Schools," it is setup as 6 years after PSLE and some will take the IGCSE after Sec 4/Year 10 followed by IB (IBDP) in Years 11-12.

[NYY1]

...
I am not a fan of IB. (My wife is a high school teacher in an International School - she's basically said IB is for softcocks).

Yes O level is a surprisingly well recognized cert. IB sucks. Just saying it again.

I got your message .

I prefer the A Level but I think it (IB) has as much to do with the school (resources, culture, etc) and student intake as the curriculum itself? Over the years, the A Level and IP A Level track has kind of morphed into a lot of what IB tries to develop. I'll give the A Level an edge on the math and science side but it depends on what the school offers for the HL/SL splits and the other capabilities.

Said another way, I think the kids coming out of ACS(I) from MGS/ACS(I) (or JAE/O Level intake) are on par with the A Level kids (IP or JAE/O Level) from the traditional JCs here.

Of course, ACS(I) is not your typical IB school. Many other IB schools will be accommodating to a wider range of students, both on academic ability and academic objectives.

[NYY1]

I will also add that coming back in early-2023 is sufficient time to see your child do "well" at PSLE (whatever "well" means). It all depends on the child's capabilities, what she has learnt so far in Australia (and if there are any gaps vs. the local standards), and her ability to adjust to the local system (some kids need a few months, some kids just don't learn well in the local system).

There have been kids on LOA (Leave of Absence) that have come back to take PSLE and they did well (i.e. qualified for any secondary school). Per above, it all depends on a number of factors, including the parents'/student's expectations.

Lastly, as I mentioned, SPERS is an alternative route to come back after PSLE. It is a merit based placement scheme and there have been kids that obtained spots in the most popular secondary schools this way. I won't say there are a lot of seats available but it is possible. SPERS is different from the Assured School Placement (ASP) route.

Anyways, good luck and regards!

[olivepicklejuice]

Hi,

Thank you for all the inputs, they are definitely very helpful.

Our daughter is doing very well currently, she's an SRC (class captain) and did get accepted into the OC (opportunity class) program for year 5/6. We did not proceed as she preferred to stay at her current school. She also has a good chance to go into one of the selective high school if we do stay in Sydney.

In saying that, I understand that Singapore's education standard might be different to Australia with more emphasis on maths, science and mother tongue (Mandarin for our case). These are not her best subjects as she's more into English and creative writing. Her "thinking skill" subject is also not bad.

One of our consideration is by putting her into a local school, on top of adjusting to different culture, making new friends, etc - she will also not do as well academically and will negatively impact her confidence and learning enthusiasm.

Not sure whether my fear has any validation, whether the gap in maths and science between the 2 systems is that wide....?

As a side question, is there any creative writing programs at school or outside school in Singapore? (e.g. something similar to young writer club here in NSW).

Also, could you please tell me a bit more about IP?

Regards,
ConfusedMum

[olivepicklejuice]

Thank you all for your replies. They have been very helpful.

My daughter is currently doing well at her school. She is currently an SRC (Class Captain) snd she did also get an offer to join Opportunity Class for year 5/6 at a different school. However, we didn’t pursue this path because she prefers to stay at her current school (the program is only offered at selected school on each region in NSW). She also has pretty high chance to enter one of the selective school in NSW.

In saying that, I understand that there is different emphasis between Australia and Singapore education system. Singapore education has more emphasis on maths, science and mother tongue. Those are not her best subjects. She is doing very well in English, creative writing and “problem solving” subjects.

My worry is that if I put her into local school, other than the time needed to adjust to local culture and making new friends, academically, she might not be doing as well as she is doing here. It might affect her confidence level and enthusiasm for learning.

Not sure whether my fear has any validation, is the gap between the 2 systems really that wide….?

On a side note, is there any creative writing program in Singapore school or outside school (similar to Young Writer program in NSW)?

Also, could you please tell me more about IP program?

Regards,
Confused mum

[NYY1]

Thank you all for your replies. They have been very helpful.
...
On a side note, is there any creative writing program in Singapore school or outside school (similar to Young Writer program in NSW)?

Also, could you please tell me more about IP program?

Regards,
Confused mum

Hi and no problem. I'll answer two of the easier ones first and try to tackle the more difficult one in a different reply.

Integrated Programme (IP):
Generally speaking, Singapore education is Primary (6 years, ending with PSLE), Secondary (4 years, ending with O Level), and Post-Secondary (2-3 years, either Junior College or Poly). Kids in IP bypass the O Levels and go straight to the Junior College (JC) level, provided they meet annual promotion criteria. To qualify for IP at PSLE, the student generally needs to be in the Top 10% of the Primary cohort. The total university intake is probably in the 30%-40% range, so it (IP) is a somewhat different track offered to those that are likely to go to university (to the extent this can be assessed at age 12). The general idea is to free up time preparing for the O Levels and expand what kids are doing in school beyond pen and paper exams.

https://www.moe.gov.sg/secondary/course ... -programme

Creative Writing:
There are some additional programmes at both the primary and secondary level, but they are not necessarily common or open to everyone. English will still be a subject in all primary and secondary schools but how many additional opportunities are available will vary by school.

a) The following "Creatives" are different programmes students can apply for if they are in a local school.

See the "Creative Writing Programme"
https://www.moe.gov.sg/education-in-sg/ ... y-learners

See the "Creative Arts Programme"
https://www.moe.gov.sg/education-in-sg/ ... programmes

b) There is (or was pre-covid) a national competition kids can enter and develop their skills further.
https://singaporeyoungwriterspress.com/

c) Lastly, one of the specialized independent schools, SOTA (School of the Arts), has a literary arts programme that one can apply for during P6. SOTA is an IB School (i.e. consider comments above) and provides a student with Year 7 - Year 12 education. Admission is not through PSLE but via DSA (Direct School Admission), where they will evaluate a student's specific abilities in writing, art, music, dance, etc. SOTA also has an annual creative writing competition for Primary 6 students.

https://www.sota.edu.sg/
https://www.sota.edu.sg/docs/default-so ... cants).pdf
https://www.sota.edu.sg/docs/default-so ... ubject.pdf
https://www.sota.edu.sg/p6cwcom2022

[therat]

DSA need school exam result from pri 4 onward, award, any participate at zone level, national level, interview, etc.

[NYY1]

DSA need school exam result from pri 4 onward, award, any participate at zone level, national level, interview, etc.

DSA is open to "Returning Singaporeans (SC and PR)," one need not be studying in the local schools at the time of application. And yes, there are successful cases. I believe the schools evaluate the student's capabilities in the area he/she applied for and make a general assessment on overall academic ability (transcripts, etc).