Singapore Citizenship Rejected

[sundaymorningstaple]

Go back and search my posts for the issues faced by my Boss's son with regard to NS, Int'l schools, having a PR mother and and SG father and the resulting headaches he has today. I posted on this issue several times over the past 15 years or so. The government here is a vindictive one, especially if they smell a red herring. If what I think has happened, you will never get SGC here. In fact, I am surprised you are still able to get your re-entry permit renewed. This is the normal way for the government to force giving up of PR by making it onerous to to point you cannot leave without automatically, by default, giving it up by exiting Sg without the valid re-entry permit.

[mystic_river]

In all fairness, I don’t think ICA knew or had any idea at that point that he’s studying in a boarding school because he didn’t wanna do NS. I reckon he just got lucky that he didn’t get called up for NS because of his nationality.

So, based on the above, to ICA there aren’t really any red flags other than the fact that he did his A Levels, uni and post grad overseas (which to be fair isn’t uncommon) and I presume that’s why he has no issues renewing his PR.

[midnight999]

He’s the same case as I am. Didn’t get called up for NS because of his nationality.

OP, I’m a Pakistani PR too. Wasn’t called up for NS either. A veteran here (Mad Scientist) mentioned that some people of certain nationalities do not have to serve NS due to national security reasons.

But I would not consider that to be a blocker. I know of 2nd gen Pakistani PRs who were never called up for NS and still went on to become SG citizens.

Having said that, whether you ever actually get approved for SGC is another matter. I myself just got rejected a few months back even though I’ve been a PR since 2005 and spent a better part of my life in Singapore (studied in locals schools too). Will you or I ever get approved? I don’t know. But I’d make a plan B if you want to get rid of your Pakistani passport.

Do you mean that some people of certain nationalities who are Singapore PRs do not have to serve NS due to national security reasons?

I personally do not think that not doing NS should not be a blocker because they never called me up for NS in the first place.

I actually went to an International School in Singapore and not a local school but nevertheless did go to school here and did so for 13 years.

What plan B do you suggest if I want to get rid of my Pakistani passport because I really have not been able to think of or come up with any?

I really want SG citizenship because I intend to stay in Singapore in the long-term and do not want to return to Pakistan. It is also very convenient in terms of not needing a visa for most countries (has been classed as the world's best passport) compared to the Pakistani passport which needs a visa for almost everywhere. Plus, although I want to stay in Singapore for the long-term, if I was ever able to get a job outside of Singapore then I would be able to move back to Singapore whenever I want without having to worry about my PR and the likelihood of being able to renew my PR (due to living out of the country). As you can see there are so many freedoms, flexibilities and benefits of SG citizenship.

If you don't mind, would you be able to share your biodata at the time of submitting your SG citizenship application in terms of work industry and job, monthly and annual salary, when you moved to Singapore, whether or not you spent quite some time outside of the country since being a PR and if you were on student pass before PR etc?

I am asking because I am curious to know how similar or different your situation is to mine especially since we are both Pakistani PRs?

Some of the questions you have asked regarding plan B, CV of another person, comment on NS which is only your view and not the government's view, international school won't make any difference, etc makes me feel you are little lost. Sorry

I asked about a plan B because mystic_river suggested I should make a plan B if I want to get rid of my Pakistani passport and I have not been able to think of or come with up a plan B.

I only asked for mystic_river's biodata because he is a Pakistani PR who had his SG citizenship application rejected just like me. So I was curious know whether his biodata was similar to mine given that we were in the exact same situation.

As for NS they never called me up so that is beyond my control in any case and I cannot do anything about that.

I personally did not think that whether I went to international school or local school would have made a difference to my SG citizenship application but I am not 100% sure.

So I do not think that I am lost at all.

[midnight999]

You went to International School for most of your life before going abroad “so you won’t be called up to serve NS”

From ICA’s POV, how does that count as integrating into society? You’re surrounded by mostly expats, not locals. It’s already a red flag.

Did your parents convert to citizenship after all these years? If they didn’t, again, it’s another red flag since it kind of indicates they want to settle elsewhere.

Maybe marrying a local Singaporean can improve your chances but only apply after 2 years of marriage or it will look like a marriage of convenience.

My parents did not convert to citizenship after all these years. I guess that could possibly be a factor that led to the rejection of my SG citizenship application. It may be hard for them to get citizenship now because unlike myself who spends a lot of time in Singapore, in the last few years, they have been spending of time of in Pakistan and have only been coming to Singapore about 3 times a year for 3-4 weeks visits.

[mystic_river]

OP, when I said plan B, I meant getting a PR in Canada or Australia or anywhere else really. It’s relatively easier to get citizenship in Canada than in SG.

My profile is pretty similar to yours, though like what others said comparing profiles won’t help you much. Bottom line is, you’re gonna have a hard time getting citizenship because of your nationality and other factors that only ICA is aware of.

[smoulder]

OP, when I said plan B, I meant getting a PR in Canada or Australia or anywhere else really. It’s relatively easier to get citizenship in Canada than in SG.

My profile is pretty similar to yours, though like what others said comparing profiles won’t help you much. Bottom line is, you’re gonna have a hard time getting citizenship because of your nationality and other factors that only ICA is aware of.

Out of curiosity, why do you think that nationality is a factor in this? Are you in the others category or "Indian"?

[midnight999]

He’s the same case as I am. Didn’t get called up for NS because of his nationality.

OP, I’m a Pakistani PR too. Wasn’t called up for NS either. A veteran here (Mad Scientist) mentioned that some people of certain nationalities do not have to serve NS due to national security reasons.

But I would not consider that to be a blocker. I know of 2nd gen Pakistani PRs who were never called up for NS and still went on to become SG citizens.

Having said that, whether you ever actually get approved for SGC is another matter. I myself just got rejected a few months back even though I’ve been a PR since 2005 and spent a better part of my life in Singapore (studied in locals schools too). Will you or I ever get approved? I don’t know. But I’d make a plan B if you want to get rid of your Pakistani passport.

Do you mean that some people of certain nationalities who are Singapore PRs do not have to serve NS due to national security reasons?

I personally do not think that not doing NS should not be a blocker because they never called me up for NS in the first place.

I actually went to an International School in Singapore and not a local school but nevertheless did go to school here and did so for 13 years.

What plan B do you suggest if I want to get rid of my Pakistani passport because I really have not been able to think of or come up with any?

I really want SG citizenship because I intend to stay in Singapore in the long-term and do not want to return to Pakistan. It is also very convenient in terms of not needing a visa for most countries (has been classed as the world's best passport) compared to the Pakistani passport which needs a visa for almost everywhere. Plus, although I want to stay in Singapore for the long-term, if I was ever able to get a job outside of Singapore then I would be able to move back to Singapore whenever I want without having to worry about my PR and the likelihood of being able to renew my PR (due to living out of the country). As you can see there are so many freedoms, flexibilities and benefits of SG citizenship.

If you don't mind, would you be able to share your biodata at the time of submitting your SG citizenship application in terms of work industry and job, monthly and annual salary, when you moved to Singapore, whether or not you spent quite some time outside of the country since being a PR and if you were on student pass before PR etc?

I am asking because I am curious to know how similar or different your situation is to mine especially since we are both Pakistani PRs?

Based on whatever you have said in this thread, I feel your chance is going to be low. Hope to be wrong.

Do you mean that you think my chances are low because I went to an international school, studied overseas and did not do NS (which I was not even called up for in the first place so that is beyond my control)?

[singaporeflyer]

Do you mean that some people of certain nationalities who are Singapore PRs do not have to serve NS due to national security reasons?

I personally do not think that not doing NS should not be a blocker because they never called me up for NS in the first place.

I actually went to an International School in Singapore and not a local school but nevertheless did go to school here and did so for 13 years.

What plan B do you suggest if I want to get rid of my Pakistani passport because I really have not been able to think of or come up with any?

I really want SG citizenship because I intend to stay in Singapore in the long-term and do not want to return to Pakistan. It is also very convenient in terms of not needing a visa for most countries (has been classed as the world's best passport) compared to the Pakistani passport which needs a visa for almost everywhere. Plus, although I want to stay in Singapore for the long-term, if I was ever able to get a job outside of Singapore then I would be able to move back to Singapore whenever I want without having to worry about my PR and the likelihood of being able to renew my PR (due to living out of the country). As you can see there are so many freedoms, flexibilities and benefits of SG citizenship.

If you don't mind, would you be able to share your biodata at the time of submitting your SG citizenship application in terms of work industry and job, monthly and annual salary, when you moved to Singapore, whether or not you spent quite some time outside of the country since being a PR and if you were on student pass before PR etc?

I am asking because I am curious to know how similar or different your situation is to mine especially since we are both Pakistani PRs?

Based on whatever you have said in this thread, I feel your chance is going to be low. Hope to be wrong.

Do you mean that you think my chances are low because I went to an international school, studied overseas and did not do NS (which I was not even called up for in the first place so that is beyond my control)?

Yes. Not called is not your issue, I agree. But completing NS shows commitment to giving back to SG and sinking roots. I still know it is not your fault for not being called. But international school, moving overseas to study, etc were still within your control before and will be considered for integrating factors. You are asking the same questions again and again. Your chances are very low because of a combination of factors, not just 1.

[mystic_river]

OP, when I said plan B, I meant getting a PR in Canada or Australia or anywhere else really. It’s relatively easier to get citizenship in Canada than in SG.

My profile is pretty similar to yours, though like what others said comparing profiles won’t help you much. Bottom line is, you’re gonna have a hard time getting citizenship because of your nationality and other factors that only ICA is aware of.

Out of curiosity, why do you think that nationality is a factor in this? Are you in the others category or "Indian"?

I’ve actually been confused on this myself and have asked several people but the general consensus is that Pakistanis are under the “Indian” category.

As to why I think nationality is a factor in this? I mean I don’t know this for sure but I would think ICA does have a preference in nationalities too and not just race, and Pakistan is more likely than not, not a preferred nationality. I could be completely wrong but then again I’m also a pessimist.

[midnight999]

You went to International School for most of your life before going abroad “so you won’t be called up to serve NS”

From ICA’s POV, how does that count as integrating into society? You’re surrounded by mostly expats, not locals. It’s already a red flag.

Did your parents convert to citizenship after all these years? If they didn’t, again, it’s another red flag since it kind of indicates they want to settle elsewhere.

Maybe marrying a local Singaporean can improve your chances but only apply after 2 years of marriage or it will look like a marriage of convenience.

On my SG citizenship application, if I remember correctly, I think they only require you to put your highest qualification so I just put my Master's and Bachelor's degrees. I did not put my A Levels which I obtained from the UK and my GCSEs (AKA O Levels) which I obtained from an international school in Singapore.

[singaporeflyer]

You went to International School for most of your life before going abroad “so you won’t be called up to serve NS”

From ICA’s POV, how does that count as integrating into society? You’re surrounded by mostly expats, not locals. It’s already a red flag.

Did your parents convert to citizenship after all these years? If they didn’t, again, it’s another red flag since it kind of indicates they want to settle elsewhere.

Maybe marrying a local Singaporean can improve your chances but only apply after 2 years of marriage or it will look like a marriage of convenience.

On my SG citizenship application, if I remember correctly, I think they only require you to put your highest qualification so I just put my Master's and Bachelor's degrees. I did not put my A Levels which I obtained from the UK and my GCSEs (AKA O Levels) which I obtained from an international school in Singapore.

Do you think ICA won't know about your international schooling in Sg since you didn't mention in your application?

[singaporeflyer]

When did you get your PR ?

[midnight999]

When did you get your PR ?

I got my PR like 28 or 29 years ago when I was 1 or 2 years old. Tbh I don’t know exactly when I got it but I have had it for the vast majority of my life. I got it through my parents as they are PRs and had been PRs before I was born.

[midnight999]

You went to International School for most of your life before going abroad “so you won’t be called up to serve NS”

From ICA’s POV, how does that count as integrating into society? You’re surrounded by mostly expats, not locals. It’s already a red flag.

Did your parents convert to citizenship after all these years? If they didn’t, again, it’s another red flag since it kind of indicates they want to settle elsewhere.

Maybe marrying a local Singaporean can improve your chances but only apply after 2 years of marriage or it will look like a marriage of convenience.

On my SG citizenship application, if I remember correctly, I think they only require you to put your highest qualification so I just put my Master's and Bachelor's degrees. I did not put my A Levels which I obtained from the UK and my GCSEs (AKA O Levels) which I obtained from an international school in Singapore.

Do you think ICA won't know about your international schooling in Sg since you didn't mention in your application?

Good point. I reckon they will know about it.

[smoulder]

OP, when I said plan B, I meant getting a PR in Canada or Australia or anywhere else really. It’s relatively easier to get citizenship in Canada than in SG.

My profile is pretty similar to yours, though like what others said comparing profiles won’t help you much. Bottom line is, you’re gonna have a hard time getting citizenship because of your nationality and other factors that only ICA is aware of.

Out of curiosity, why do you think that nationality is a factor in this? Are you in the others category or "Indian"?

I’ve actually been confused on this myself and have asked several people but the general consensus is that Pakistanis are under the “Indian” category.

As to why I think nationality is a factor in this? I mean I don’t know this for sure but I would think ICA does have a preference in nationalities too and not just race, and Pakistan is more likely than not, not a preferred nationality. I could be completely wrong but then again I’m also a pessimist.

What race is on your IC?

As for the statement about how certain nationalities are preferred and some are not - some cases are well known. Examples - Malaysians are preferred, Vietnamese are not so much. And a few others - SMS has some interesting ideas about this. Do you know other examples of Pakistanis struggling more than say Indians or folks in the others category? One reason I could think of why they might be suspicious of Pakistanis as you suggest is that the SIA hijackers back in the 90s were from Pakistan - so that might be something. I was kind of thinking that SMS might have some ideas.