PR, Citizenship profile evaluation 2023

[NYY1]

Dear group members,

I would like to seek your opinion on the outcome of our Singapore Citizenship application. Greatly appreciate if you could share your insights on this. Thanks in advance!

Length of stay in Singapore: Since 2011, continuous stay
Family size: Wife, son (9 years), myself
Visa status: Singapore PR holder since Feb 2020 (whole family)
Nationality and Race: Indian (whole family)
My Age: 40 years
Marital status: Married for 10 years
Applied for: Citizenship applied in April 2022 (whole family)
Education: Bachelor of Tech (Computer Science from India); Wife (Master of Arts)
Occupation: IT Consultant (Cloud and related tech); wife doesn't work
Employer: Large IT Company (Global footprint)
Salary: ~ SGD 200K

Just curious, did you get PR on first application and is your son in a local or International School?

[Wd40]

Dear group members,

I would like to seek your opinion on the outcome of our Singapore Citizenship application. Greatly appreciate if you could share your insights on this. Thanks in advance!

Length of stay in Singapore: Since 2011, continuous stay
Family size: Wife, son (9 years), myself
Visa status: Singapore PR holder since Feb 2020 (whole family)
Nationality and Race: Indian (whole family)
My Age: 40 years
Marital status: Married for 10 years
Applied for: Citizenship applied in April 2022 (whole family)
Education: Bachelor of Tech (Computer Science from India); Wife (Master of Arts)
Occupation: IT Consultant (Cloud and related tech); wife doesn't work
Employer: Large IT Company (Global footprint)
Salary: ~ SGD 200K

There you go another SGD 200k Indian getting PR. @smoulder

[smoulder]

Dear group members,

I would like to seek your opinion on the outcome of our Singapore Citizenship application. Greatly appreciate if you could share your insights on this. Thanks in advance!

Length of stay in Singapore: Since 2011, continuous stay
Family size: Wife, son (9 years), myself
Visa status: Singapore PR holder since Feb 2020 (whole family)
Nationality and Race: Indian (whole family)
My Age: 40 years
Marital status: Married for 10 years
Applied for: Citizenship applied in April 2022 (whole family)
Education: Bachelor of Tech (Computer Science from India); Wife (Master of Arts)
Occupation: IT Consultant (Cloud and related tech); wife doesn't work
Employer: Large IT Company (Global footprint)
Salary: ~ SGD 200K

There you go another SGD 200k Indian getting PR. @smoulder

There was an MD in a bank who's wife posted here a couple of years ago. Salary of 500k and still on an EP. Why?

[Wd40]

There was an MD in a bank who's wife posted here a couple of years ago. Salary of 500k and still on an EP. Why?

I am not saying every high salaried Indian is going to get PR, absolutely not. All I am saying is the Indians who end up getting PR are likely to be high salaried. What is high salary? Anything that is significantly above the median Singapore household income, so anything about 150k. Personally I would love to see Indian with 8K salary get PR. But I dont see it, unless there is some other factor like married to a local or a PhD, why? Can a cloud developer not accept an 8k salary?

[smoulder]

There was an MD in a bank who's wife posted here a couple of years ago. Salary of 500k and still on an EP. Why?

I am not saying every high salaried Indian is going to get PR, absolutely not. All I am saying is the Indians who end up getting PR are likely to be high salaried. What is high salary? Anything that is significantly above the median Singapore household income, so anything about 150k. Personally I would love to see Indian with 8K salary get PR. But I dont see it, unless there is some other factor like married to a local or a PhD, why? Can a cloud developer not accept an 8k salary?

I think it's a lot more nuanced than just salary. I know you don't want to consider that there is an element of family ties which is equated to integration.

It is hard to say without hard data, but I think the typical profiles are of those towards the upper end of the Bell curve, but still on the curve. Those who are too far up the curve are probably not usually successful.

Now there's the family ties bit. I think it's not necessary but definitely a possibility that many of the Indians who come in this category are usually males married to Singaporean women. Suffice to say that they are often not low earning corporates - so here too, it might seem that salary is the prime reason for the ICA, but in likelihood it is family ties which is the main driver and salary is an additional box that is ticked.

[singaporeflyer]

There was an MD in a bank who's wife posted here a couple of years ago. Salary of 500k and still on an EP. Why?

I am not saying every high salaried Indian is going to get PR, absolutely not. All I am saying is the Indians who end up getting PR are likely to be high salaried. What is high salary? Anything that is significantly above the median Singapore household income, so anything about 150k. Personally I would love to see Indian with 8K salary get PR. But I dont see it, unless there is some other factor like married to a local or a PhD, why? Can a cloud developer not accept an 8k salary?

I think it's a lot more nuanced than just salary. I know you don't want to consider that there is an element of family ties which is equated to integration.

It is hard to say without hard data, but I think the typical profiles are of those towards the upper end of the Bell curve, but still on the curve. Those who are too far up the curve are probably not usually successful.

Now there's the family ties bit. I think it's not necessary but definitely a possibility that many of the Indians who come in this category are usually males married to Singaporean women. Suffice to say that they are often not low earning corporates - so here too, it might seem that salary is the prime reason for the ICA, but in likelihood it is family ties which is the main driver and salary is an additional box that is ticked.

Some form of local education also ticks an additional box.

[smoulder]

I am not saying every high salaried Indian is going to get PR, absolutely not. All I am saying is the Indians who end up getting PR are likely to be high salaried. What is high salary? Anything that is significantly above the median Singapore household income, so anything about 150k. Personally I would love to see Indian with 8K salary get PR. But I dont see it, unless there is some other factor like married to a local or a PhD, why? Can a cloud developer not accept an 8k salary?

I think it's a lot more nuanced than just salary. I know you don't want to consider that there is an element of family ties which is equated to integration.

It is hard to say without hard data, but I think the typical profiles are of those towards the upper end of the Bell curve, but still on the curve. Those who are too far up the curve are probably not usually successful.

Now there's the family ties bit. I think it's not necessary but definitely a possibility that many of the Indians who come in this category are usually males married to Singaporean women. Suffice to say that they are often not low earning corporates - so here too, it might seem that salary is the prime reason for the ICA, but in likelihood it is family ties which is the main driver and salary is an additional box that is ticked.

Some form of local education also ticks an additional box.

Agreed - I probably simplified it a bit myself.

[Lisafuller]

if you read some of the post here they will recommend to apply after two years of marriage. i think you had applied too early.

Yup, 2-3 years usually.

[Lisafuller]

if you read some of the post here they will recommend to apply after two years of marriage. i think you had applied too early.

I agree with you, I'm open for rejection now. I will apply again once my wife gets citizenship or after a baby.

After a baby you have a much more solid chance.

[Lisafuller]

There is no such thing called campus interview in Singapore
I was never on Spass. I was on student pass.
I had some exp before coming to sg.
Finding a job in Singapore is not easy and there is no MOE subsidy for foreigners anymore. It's gonna be more difficult.

Thanks. I wonder what made you choose SG PG diploma then?

I think he said he had the Tuition Grant (served 3 year bond). There were some other comments (maybe from you) that a colleague or friend's child didn't get it. I am not sure what the current state of the Tuition Grant is; it is still listed on NUS/NTU website but one needs to apply and possibly they are given out more selectively these days?

TG is still available - offered to all Singaporeans and PRs if I'm not mistaken

[Lisafuller]

Thanks. I wonder what made you choose SG PG diploma then?

I think he said he had the Tuition Grant (served 3 year bond). There were some other comments (maybe from you) that a colleague or friend's child didn't get it. I am not sure what the current state of the Tuition Grant is; it is still listed on NUS/NTU website but one needs to apply and possibly they are given out more selectively these days?

I believe the tuition grant whether you get it or not, you only find out in hindsight, as my colleague was saying her nephew eventually didnt get the grant but he has already started his semester. I wonder what made OP to come to Singapore and take that risk. Lucky he got a grant and found a job here. But I dont think it is worth that risk, he could have easily moved to Canada, Australia or UK or even just stayed in India. His biggest upside, seems to be acquiring a PR wife, but if he is not given PR, then it is pretty useless also.

You find out about the grant at the same time as your admission offer.

[Lisafuller]

I think he said he had the Tuition Grant (served 3 year bond). There were some other comments (maybe from you) that a colleague or friend's child didn't get it. I am not sure what the current state of the Tuition Grant is; it is still listed on NUS/NTU website but one needs to apply and possibly they are given out more selectively these days?

I believe the tuition grant whether you get it or not, you only find out in hindsight, as my colleague was saying her nephew eventually didnt get the grant but he has already started his semester. I wonder what made OP to come to Singapore and take that risk. Lucky he got a grant and found a job here. But I dont think it is worth that risk, he could have easily moved to Canada, Australia or UK or even just stayed in India. His biggest upside, seems to be acquiring a PR wife, but if he is not given PR, then it is pretty useless also.

I thought it (obtain Grant or not) when admission offers were made? As when you accept you need to confirm whether you are accepting with or without the Grant. But I am not close to this right now and don't know anyone that has recently taken it. As you allude to, I don't know how many people could make a fair assessment and decision without knowing whether they have it or not (given the cost differential).

Yup! My daughter has plenty of friends on TG at NUS/SMU/NTU - grant is offered at the same time the admission offer is issued, the large majority choose to take it, but a select few who can afford it and really don't want to work in Singapore forgo it.

[Lisafuller]

I think he said he had the Tuition Grant (served 3 year bond). There were some other comments (maybe from you) that a colleague or friend's child didn't get it. I am not sure what the current state of the Tuition Grant is; it is still listed on NUS/NTU website but one needs to apply and possibly they are given out more selectively these days?

I believe the tuition grant whether you get it or not, you only find out in hindsight, as my colleague was saying her nephew eventually didnt get the grant but he has already started his semester. I wonder what made OP to come to Singapore and take that risk. Lucky he got a grant and found a job here. But I dont think it is worth that risk, he could have easily moved to Canada, Australia or UK or even just stayed in India. His biggest upside, seems to be acquiring a PR wife, but if he is not given PR, then it is pretty useless also.

I did not know my wife when I first came to Singapore.

Choosing Singapore over other countries for someone coming from Tamil Nadu could have other reasons as well.

1) Firstly, my Mother's father was a citizen; my Father's father was a PR. Both are passed away and did not bring their respective kids to Sg. I always had a deep connection to this country since my childhood.

2) I do have a lot of close relatives here even now.

3) During 2015, MOE subsidiary was common to almost all PG programs and guaranteed for all students.

4) It is NUS.

Honestly, even if you don't get it this time, you may very well get it the next. It's good that you were educated here and that you have family ties to SG. Best of luck.

[Lisafuller]

There was an MD in a bank who's wife posted here a couple of years ago. Salary of 500k and still on an EP. Why?

I am not saying every high salaried Indian is going to get PR, absolutely not. All I am saying is the Indians who end up getting PR are likely to be high salaried. What is high salary? Anything that is significantly above the median Singapore household income, so anything about 150k. Personally I would love to see Indian with 8K salary get PR. But I dont see it, unless there is some other factor like married to a local or a PhD, why? Can a cloud developer not accept an 8k salary?

I think it's a lot more nuanced than just salary. I know you don't want to consider that there is an element of family ties which is equated to integration.

It is hard to say without hard data, but I think the typical profiles are of those towards the upper end of the Bell curve, but still on the curve. Those who are too far up the curve are probably not usually successful.

Now there's the family ties bit. I think it's not necessary but definitely a possibility that many of the Indians who come in this category are usually males married to Singaporean women. Suffice to say that they are often not low earning corporates - so here too, it might seem that salary is the prime reason for the ICA, but in likelihood it is family ties which is the main driver and salary is an additional box that is ticked.

Great points, definitely agree. When they are married, have established ties here, and are earning a reasonable amount, the odds are very much in their favor.

[NYY1]

I believe the tuition grant whether you get it or not, you only find out in hindsight, as my colleague was saying her nephew eventually didnt get the grant but he has already started his semester. I wonder what made OP to come to Singapore and take that risk. Lucky he got a grant and found a job here. But I dont think it is worth that risk, he could have easily moved to Canada, Australia or UK or even just stayed in India. His biggest upside, seems to be acquiring a PR wife, but if he is not given PR, then it is pretty useless also.

I thought it (obtain Grant or not) when admission offers were made? As when you accept you need to confirm whether you are accepting with or without the Grant. But I am not close to this right now and don't know anyone that has recently taken it. As you allude to, I don't know how many people could make a fair assessment and decision without knowing whether they have it or not (given the cost differential).

Yup! My daughter has plenty of friends on TG at NUS/SMU/NTU - grant is offered at the same time the admission offer is issued, the large majority choose to take it, but a select few who can afford it and really don't want to work in Singapore forgo it.

SCs automatically receive the Tuition Grant and there is no bond, hence there is nothing for an SC to decide (the question is more whether you want PSC or some other scholarship that requires SCs to serve 4-6 years bond). PRs and ISs still need to apply for the Tuition Grant and serve the bond, hence some may decide to pay the unsubsidized rate.