Is it even worth living in SG anymore as a foreigner?

[malcontent]

HDB has become too upmarket, they need to return to their core objective — to provide affordable housing for the masses. Most of the innovations I have seen from the HDB over the past few decades are bells and whistles… those should be left to the private market. They shouldn’t even have entered into the EC market, it was waste — instead they should have deregulated the private market to build economical EC type units or allow basic, facility-free apartments that don’t require security guards (or the hefty maintenance fees that goes with it).

Instead, they should focus on innovations that save money and save space, the two most essential things people who can’t afford sky high prices need. Also, they should return to building jumbo flats for bigger families, how else can you expect people to have more kids?

[sundaymorningstaple]

8)In some countries Indians have a good name, like in the US, we are looked at as "IT guys" but not so in Malaysia, there is a dark history. I would rather be part of the majority in India and part of the favorable part of the demographics than going to Malaysia and becoming part of the non-favorable part of demographics. Singapore has already given a light taste of it. Malaysia would be 100 times worse.

I had a chuckle over your comment about Indians in the US. I've been here a long time (passed 4 decades in June). When I left the US in 1982, Lots of educated Indians already there, and were all looked at, not as CEO's & IT guys but as Pediatricians. They were sent to the US for medical school and all those who were qualified for Pediatrics were offered positions, not just in big city hospitals but everywhere. We even had a female Indian pediatrician in my home town hospital (pop. 9,600 when I left). Things change with the times.

[Wd40]

Isn’t this what free market economics is all about.

Works both ways. For years, demand was less hence rent has been cheap.

It is not a free market, when one section of society is allowed to buy and rent out and the other section of society can only rent and cannot buy.

It is still a free market. I've sold my prev condo to a foreign couple who's forked out the 20% stamp duty. It's just whether you're willing to do so, but then again if you feel like you're transient here, by all means continue to rent.

The rental market moves in cycles, and I'm sure you remember 2012 when rentals were at the prev peak. It subsequently fell into a decline, before roaring up strongly last year and this.

In any case, young adults who's in their 20s are getting priced out of condos, and new HDBs queue number is like a lottery. So locals have a reason to moan as you do.

As for dormitories for expats, yeah there are some high end ones. It's probably more expensive than what you currently have. And like all dormitories, it isn't quite family friendly.

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/economic ... se-40-cent

It seems this forum is now dominated by expats turned locals rather than expats. It is as if I am in Hardwarezone and not Singapore Expats forum

In my 13 years here, rents never jumped like this 50-100%. When I first came here in 2009 rents were $1800 for a 2 bedder HDB, they climbed gradually upto $2300 peak in 2013 and then again fell back to $1800 by 2018. But now we have sudden jump conditions after the onset of the pandemic and now suddenly 2 bedder HDB is $3500 Initially it was because Malaysian workers couldnt go back to JB every day, so there was a surge in demand from them. Now it is something else. So clearly there is a problem, but expats are kind of invisible here with no voice.

[midlet2013]

It is not a free market, when one section of society is allowed to buy and rent out and the other section of society can only rent and cannot buy.

It is still a free market. I've sold my prev condo to a foreign couple who's forked out the 20% stamp duty. It's just whether you're willing to do so, but then again if you feel like you're transient here, by all means continue to rent.

The rental market moves in cycles, and I'm sure you remember 2012 when rentals were at the prev peak. It subsequently fell into a decline, before roaring up strongly last year and this.

In any case, young adults who's in their 20s are getting priced out of condos, and new HDBs queue number is like a lottery. So locals have a reason to moan as you do.

As for dormitories for expats, yeah there are some high end ones. It's probably more expensive than what you currently have. And like all dormitories, it isn't quite family friendly.

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/economic ... se-40-cent

It seems this forum is now dominated by expats turned locals rather than expats. It is as if I am in Hardwarezone and not Singapore Expats forum

In my 13 years here, rents never jumped like this 50-100%. When I first came here in 2009 rents were $1800 for a 2 bedder HDB, they climbed gradually upto $2300 peak in 2013 and then again fell back to $1800 by 2018. But now we have sudden jump conditions after the onset of the pandemic and now suddenly 2 bedder HDB is $3500 Initially it was because Malaysian workers couldnt go back to JB every day, so there was a surge in demand from them. Now it is something else. So clearly there is a problem, but expats are kind of invisible here with no voice.

My wife and I are PR for more than 8 years but we did not buy a house yet. Mostly out of choice cuz I think investing is financially more savvy.

We had a good run renting too since 2012. We just renewed for 2 years in June and got out 2 room condo renewed for 2900. Not bad given the situation. I have to say, that after a fair share of so-so landlords, our current one is really nice. I was expecting 3300-3500 so was surprised at 2900. Not bad.

However, I don't want to focus my energy on savings or costs or prices. I only focus on learning and improving myself at work n investing and that always turns out to be better than worrying abt sad realities of life.

So, I am probably not an expat giver PR but I rent despite having PR for a decade. Just feel it offers flexibility, freedom. I also rent away from MRT so prices r ok cuz I prefer driving.

I believe in enjoying life over worrying

[NYY1]

It seems this forum is now dominated by expats turned locals rather than expats. It is as if I am in Hardwarezone and not Singapore Expats forum

In my 13 years here, rents never jumped like this 50-100%. When I first came here in 2009 rents were $1800 for a 2 bedder HDB, they climbed gradually upto $2300 peak in 2013 and then again fell back to $1800 by 2018. But now we have sudden jump conditions after the onset of the pandemic and now suddenly 2 bedder HDB is $3500 Initially it was because Malaysian workers couldnt go back to JB every day, so there was a surge in demand from them. Now it is something else. So clearly there is a problem, but expats are kind of invisible here with no voice.

Maybe. Or maybe not everyone here is infected with the mememe syndrome. Give it some thought whether the citizens and society as a whole or the expats are any government's main concern. Yet time and time again all we see here is people complaining about how something doesn't fit them them them to a t.

For example, I am quite sure many young adults here would like the same 400-500 sq ft (+/-) "apartments" to live in once they graduate. The 2 Room HDB exists but you need to be 35 years old (if single) to buy one. Build more 2 Room Flats and lower the qualifying age (I'm not saying they should do this, as it will create other secondary issues without other tweaks)? Or solve the issue you raise? People mention private developments but those aren't going to be cheap. The land cost alone is $600-$1,700 psf depending on the location unless you guys want that subsidized too.

I remember I once had dinner with a few university admissions counsellors. They bust out laughing when talking about expat parents and where they think their kids will go to university. The kids were good students and great people; many things to admire and no reason to believe they won't be successful. But the parents were delusional about where their children stood in the university admissions process. They (the counsellors) blamed it on everyone thinking they are so so so important when in reality most are just some other Joe, entirely replaceable in a couple of weeks. Again, doesn't mean the parents and kids weren't great people, but the world doesn't revolve around them.

[NYY1]

...
However, I don't want to focus my energy on savings or costs or prices. I only focus on learning and improving myself at work n investing and that always turns out to be better than worrying abt sad realities of life.
...

Good advice. Truth is Singapore and other cities like it are not places to "coast." Even within a country, the Tier 1 urban areas attract people that want to work hard and advance themselves. Many find that by the time they hit 40 (or so) the treadmill is running too fast and they prefer something else. Nothing wrong from a "good person" or individual choice standpoint. But the point is that it's hard to have a "free and easy" lifestyle in these places; one needs to work hard to keep up with the ever advancing standards and price levels.

[the observer]

It is not a free market, when one section of society is allowed to buy and rent out and the other section of society can only rent and cannot buy.

It is still a free market. I've sold my prev condo to a foreign couple who's forked out the 20% stamp duty. It's just whether you're willing to do so, but then again if you feel like you're transient here, by all means continue to rent.

The rental market moves in cycles, and I'm sure you remember 2012 when rentals were at the prev peak. It subsequently fell into a decline, before roaring up strongly last year and this.

In any case, young adults who's in their 20s are getting priced out of condos, and new HDBs queue number is like a lottery. So locals have a reason to moan as you do.

As for dormitories for expats, yeah there are some high end ones. It's probably more expensive than what you currently have. And like all dormitories, it isn't quite family friendly.

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/economic ... se-40-cent

It seems this forum is now dominated by expats turned locals rather than expats. It is as if I am in Hardwarezone and not Singapore Expats forum

In my 13 years here, rents never jumped like this 50-100%. When I first came here in 2009 rents were $1800 for a 2 bedder HDB, they climbed gradually upto $2300 peak in 2013 and then again fell back to $1800 by 2018. But now we have sudden jump conditions after the onset of the pandemic and now suddenly 2 bedder HDB is $3500 Initially it was because Malaysian workers couldnt go back to JB every day, so there was a surge in demand from them. Now it is something else. So clearly there is a problem, but expats are kind of invisible here with no voice.

Man, in 2007 the 2 bedder hdb was just $1200-$1300.
So 2009 for $1800 is 50% higher already. 2013 is double.

https://www.hdb.gov.sg/residential/rent ... statistics

And in 2005 I was renting with my friends a 5 room hdb for $1700 at Toa Payoh.

Fwiw, i do think this Singapore Expat forum is used by many expats who want to become local. ie. judging by the number of posts on seeking advise on how to become PR/Citizen, when best to apply, criterias etc.

Also, I shouldn't have made references to you in my earlier posts. Pardon me, if you've felt slighted by it.

[the observer]

Rents are going up like crazy. Some of my colleague's recent rental renewals are at 4k for simple 1bedroom condo and 3 bedroom HDB! If you have like 2 kids in intl school and pay like 2k each and 4k rent, how can anybody survive here with a salary of 10k?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... r-pressure

In my 13 years here, this is the 1st time, I am wondering if it even makes sense to continue staying here.

To answer your question, if your salary doesn't keep up with inflation, you vote with your feet.
Firstly, to another company.
If not, then to another country.

[bro75]

It is very tough now for non homeowners. My former tenants are asking for their old rooms back but we converted the rooms to a home office for WFH and my daughter also wants her own room now. I heard that the increase in rental fees is more than 50%. I believe hybrid and WFH made rooms for rent scarcer.

[the observer]

It is very tough now for non homeowners. My former tenants are asking for their old rooms back but we converted the rooms to a home office for WFH and my daughter also wants her own room now. I heard that the increase in rental fees is more than 50%. I believe hybrid and WFH made rooms for rent scarcer.

Combination of factors.

Wfh
Influx of migration
Slow completion of homes.

Problem is many were predicting an exodus during COVID, but turned out that there’s been a huge influx instead. Now mncs are relocating depts from HK to Singapore, adding fuel to the fire.

With rentals on fire, they’re gonna pass on the cost.
Food is already up. But that can be mitigated by dining out less and eating in more.

Tuition fee for expats kids are fixed annually.
I think next year it’s gonna shoot.

Expecting a new thread about this soon.

[jalanjalan]

It is very tough now for non homeowners. My former tenants are asking for their old rooms back but we converted the rooms to a home office for WFH and my daughter also wants her own room now. I heard that the increase in rental fees is more than 50%. I believe hybrid and WFH made rooms for rent scarcer.

We gave up our office of many years during covid, as we couldn't even enter the building for some months. We've converted space in our home for permanent WFH, and don't intend to rent a commercial property again. For small businesses that can be done remotely, this is a big cost savings and much less stressful.
We didn't rent out rooms for residential before this, but yeah, now that would be impossible. Even if we did go back to an office, renting out a room would barely offset a commercial rental, so no point.

[truthhurts1]

It is very tough now for non homeowners. My former tenants are asking for their old rooms back but we converted the rooms to a home office for WFH and my daughter also wants her own room now. I heard that the increase in rental fees is more than 50%. I believe hybrid and WFH made rooms for rent scarcer.

Combination of factors.

Wfh
Influx of migration
Slow completion of homes.

Problem is many were predicting an exodus during COVID, but turned out that there’s been a huge influx instead. Now mncs are relocating depts from HK to Singapore, adding fuel to the fire.

With rentals on fire, they’re gonna pass on the cost.
Food is already up. But that can be mitigated by dining out less and eating in more.

Tuition fee for expats kids are fixed annually.
I think next year it’s gonna shoot.

Expecting a new thread about this soon.

Lol seems like someone is trying to rent their apartment and trying to justify the increase.
The increase is nothing but greed, the number of new foreigners leaving are more than the ones coming in. There is a huge demand in the 1-2 bedroom apartments are lot of people are downgrading and more local people want to live seperately from parents

[NYY1]

Combination of factors.

Wfh
Influx of migration
Slow completion of homes.

Problem is many were predicting an exodus during COVID, but turned out that there’s been a huge influx instead. Now mncs are relocating depts from HK to Singapore, adding fuel to the fire.

With rentals on fire, they’re gonna pass on the cost.
Food is already up. But that can be mitigated by dining out less and eating in more.

Tuition fee for expats kids are fixed annually.
I think next year it’s gonna shoot.

Expecting a new thread about this soon.

Lol seems like someone is trying to rent their apartment and trying to justify the increase.
The increase is nothing but greed, the number of new foreigners leaving are more than the ones coming in. There is a huge demand in the 1-2 bedroom apartments are lot of people are downgrading and more local people want to live seperately from parents

Part in bold underlined is factually incorrect. PR, EP, and S Pass counts were all up June 2022 (vs. June 2021). DP holders were down y/y, but collectively this group (of four components) was up 3.3%.

Fortunately or unfortunately, some of the things that are driving demand for space are unlikely to reverse (this is not to say the current trend will continue forever or there won't be a pullback).

More likely, there's a recalibration of the foreigners working here (again, irrespective of whether that itself is good or bad)...

[the observer]

It is very tough now for non homeowners. My former tenants are asking for their old rooms back but we converted the rooms to a home office for WFH and my daughter also wants her own room now. I heard that the increase in rental fees is more than 50%. I believe hybrid and WFH made rooms for rent scarcer.

Combination of factors.

Wfh
Influx of migration
Slow completion of homes.

Problem is many were predicting an exodus during COVID, but turned out that there’s been a huge influx instead. Now mncs are relocating depts from HK to Singapore, adding fuel to the fire.

With rentals on fire, they’re gonna pass on the cost.
Food is already up. But that can be mitigated by dining out less and eating in more.

Tuition fee for expats kids are fixed annually.
I think next year it’s gonna shoot.

Expecting a new thread about this soon.

Lol seems like someone is trying to rent their apartment and trying to justify the increase.
The increase is nothing but greed, the number of new foreigners leaving are more than the ones coming in. There is a huge demand in the 1-2 bedroom apartments are lot of people are downgrading and more local people want to live seperately from parents

Wouldn’t be me. Can’t afford a 2nd property.

But this made the news.

https://www.asiaone.com/money/so-ridicu ... ecord-4600

[jwoods1864]

I'm currently only paying 1850 for a one bedroom apartment around Beauty World. I see similar apartments going for 3400 now. It is safe to say that the renewal in June will be hard to swallow. It will probably be double!


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