Is it even worth living in SG anymore as a foreigner?

[Wd40]

Isn’t this what free market economics is all about.

Works both ways. For years, demand was less hence rent has been cheap.

It is not a free market, when one section of society is allowed to buy and rent out and the other section of society can only rent and cannot buy.

[Wd40]

It depends bro.. for some people like me going back to India is not an option after 22 years and being 40+ its gonna be difficult to move to a new country.. so here I am stuck here for almost 10 years and still no stability, still cant have enough Money to get married nor start a family or even buy a decent house.

People who have options need to move.

ON the rental part my owner increased the rental of my shoe box condo by 30% from 2300 to 3000 and this will further make it difficult to save anything.
I would definitely leave and move back if I had just close to 300,000USD in the bank and no debts, liabilities!!

22 years is a long time indeed. I am surprised you didnt get PR. But why didnt you save enough money atleast? In 13 years I have made a networth of 1.2M SGD. So going back to India is not a problem. I might even get by without having to work there.

The thing is we have been living very frugally here right from the beginning and the main motivation is savings rate. We dont take taxi, or eat in expensive restaurants or go on expensive holidays.

We stay in a 3 Bedroom HDB in Jurong and current rent we are paying is 2.3K. Last year around this time we renewed it and the rent had jumped $500 a month so 1.8k to 2.3k was a big jump. Luckily we did 2 year contract and our renewal is due next september. The landlord was kind and even though at that time the rents had already jumped to like 2.6-2.8k, he allowed us 2.3k because we were there for 4 years already.

But now rents are already in the 3.8-4k range for my house, so come next renewal even if my owner is still kind I dont expect him to go below like 3.5k. So I need to factor in a $1.2k jump.

My current annual savings rate is ~70k per annum out of salary of 135k gross and last year I got a 10% hike which was due to promotion and normally hikes are much lower at 3-5%. So if my rent goes up by 15k per annum(1.2k X 12), that brings my savings down to 55k and since 2009, my avg annual savings has been 65k, so I need another 10% hike over the next 2 years bring me back on par with my trend savings rate and I hope rents stabilize around these levels. I am not sure if I will get a 10% cumulative hike over the next 2 years, but I will definitely push for it.

[truthhurts1]

It depends bro.. for some people like me going back to India is not an option after 22 years and being 40+ its gonna be difficult to move to a new country.. so here I am stuck here for almost 10 years and still no stability, still cant have enough Money to get married nor start a family or even buy a decent house.

People who have options need to move.

ON the rental part my owner increased the rental of my shoe box condo by 30% from 2300 to 3000 and this will further make it difficult to save anything.
I would definitely leave and move back if I had just close to 300,000USD in the bank and no debts, liabilities!!

22 years is a long time indeed. I am surprised you didnt get PR. But why didnt you save enough money atleast? In 13 years I have made a networth of 1.2M SGD. So going back to India is not a problem. I might even get by without having to work there.

The thing is we have been living very frugally here right from the beginning and the main motivation is savings rate. We dont take taxi, or eat in expensive restaurants or go on expensive holidays.

We stay in a 3 Bedroom HDB in Jurong and current rent we are paying is 2.3K. Last year around this time we renewed it and the rent had jumped $500 a month so 1.8k to 2.3k was a big jump. Luckily we did 2 year contract and our renewal is due next september. The landlord was kind and even though at that time the rents had already jumped to like 2.6-2.8k, he allowed us 2.3k because we were there for 4 years already.

But now rents are already in the 3.8-4k range for my house, so come next renewal even if my owner is still kind I dont expect him to go below like 3.5k. So I need to factor in a $1.2k jump.

My current annual savings rate is ~70k per annum out of salary of 135k gross and last year I got a 10% hike which was due to promotion and normally hikes are much lower at 3-5%. So if my rent goes up by 15k per annum(1.2k X 12), that brings my savings down to 55k and since 2009, my avg annual savings has been 65k, so I need another 10% hike over the next 2 years bring me back on par with my trend savings rate and I hope rents stabilize around these levels. I am not sure if I will get a 10% cumulative hike over the next 2 years, but I will definitely push for it.

Congratulations !! A net worth of 1,2million SGD is amazing.. I would most likely move to indian or Malaysia if I had that kind of money today.

Out of the 22 years that I been outside India 10 years have been in Singapore and the rest in other countries including a part of that in China. I have only been 3 times to India during these 22 years and the last time I was there was in 2015.

Lack of financial knowledge and urgency, instant gratification, living it up and enjoying the moment .. lol all of these are the reasons I couldn’t save much in those years.. I started this year with the SRS account and also a Prudential plan and wanna make sure I keep it up and keep saving much I can.
Hopefully its not too late!!

[Wd40]

Congratulations !! A net worth of 1,2million SGD is amazing.. I would most likely move to indian or Malaysia if I had that kind of money today.

Out of the 22 years that I been outside India 10 years have been in Singapore and the rest in other countries including a part of that in China. I have only been 3 times to India during these 22 years and the last time I was there was in 2015.

Lack of financial knowledge and urgency, instant gratification, living it up and enjoying the moment .. lol all of these are the reasons I couldn’t save much in those years.. I started this year with the SRS account and also a Prudential plan and wanna make sure I keep it up and keep saving much I can.
Hopefully its not too late!!

Thanks! It is never too late to gain financial literacy. The only thing I keep telling myself is a dollar saved is a dollar earned and it is a dollar you dont need to earn in the future. So the lesser savings you have the longer you need to work. That is the cost. Even by being frugal, there is a cost and it is life goes on and then we might look back and think we didnt really enjoy it and now there is lot of money but we cannot do anything with it.

So I wont judge anyone, we all should be aware of the cost of our actions and be willing to pay it. If we are willing to pay it then it is all good.

[smoulder]

It depends bro.. for some people like me going back to India is not an option after 22 years and being 40+ its gonna be difficult to move to a new country.. so here I am stuck here for almost 10 years and still no stability, still cant have enough Money to get married nor start a family or even buy a decent house.

People who have options need to move.

ON the rental part my owner increased the rental of my shoe box condo by 30% from 2300 to 3000 and this will further make it difficult to save anything.
I would definitely leave and move back if I had just close to 300,000USD in the bank and no debts, liabilities!!

22 years is a long time indeed. I am surprised you didnt get PR. But why didnt you save enough money atleast? In 13 years I have made a networth of 1.2M SGD. So going back to India is not a problem. I might even get by without having to work there.

The thing is we have been living very frugally here right from the beginning and the main motivation is savings rate. We dont take taxi, or eat in expensive restaurants or go on expensive holidays.

We stay in a 3 Bedroom HDB in Jurong and current rent we are paying is 2.3K. Last year around this time we renewed it and the rent had jumped $500 a month so 1.8k to 2.3k was a big jump. Luckily we did 2 year contract and our renewal is due next september. The landlord was kind and even though at that time the rents had already jumped to like 2.6-2.8k, he allowed us 2.3k because we were there for 4 years already.

But now rents are already in the 3.8-4k range for my house, so come next renewal even if my owner is still kind I dont expect him to go below like 3.5k. So I need to factor in a $1.2k jump.

My current annual savings rate is ~70k per annum out of salary of 135k gross and last year I got a 10% hike which was due to promotion and normally hikes are much lower at 3-5%. So if my rent goes up by 15k per annum(1.2k X 12), that brings my savings down to 55k and since 2009, my avg annual savings has been 65k, so I need another 10% hike over the next 2 years bring me back on par with my trend savings rate and I hope rents stabilize around these levels. I am not sure if I will get a 10% cumulative hike over the next 2 years, but I will definitely push for it.

In my opinion, if I were in your shoes, what's important at this stage is whether this is likely to be a point of no return or whether it is just a spike which means that the rents are going to come down soon. If it is the latter which I think it is, you should just think like an investor.

An investor focuses on the long term. If you take a snapshot of the market, there will be times when it seems less favorable for the investor's goals. But those are accepted as a given in the game. What's more important is that in the long term, the market will conditions will improve and the overall investment goals will be met.

So now rents are higher, but knowing your abilities to save, you will still be able to save much more than most others. Then eventually rents will come back down - if you are willing to wait.

Having said that, I recall that you mentioned that as an investor your CAGR was quite low and that you have only just realized that you can get way better gains through things like S&P500 ETFs. This high interest rate, high rent situation coincides with a big dip in the market as well. So is a fantastic opportunity to put your millions into the market and give your investment a dose of steroids!

[smoulder]

It depends bro.. for some people like me going back to India is not an option after 22 years and being 40+ its gonna be difficult to move to a new country.. so here I am stuck here for almost 10 years and still no stability, still cant have enough Money to get married nor start a family or even buy a decent house.

People who have options need to move.

ON the rental part my owner increased the rental of my shoe box condo by 30% from 2300 to 3000 and this will further make it difficult to save anything.
I would definitely leave and move back if I had just close to 300,000USD in the bank and no debts, liabilities!!

22 years is a long time indeed. I am surprised you didnt get PR. But why didnt you save enough money atleast? In 13 years I have made a networth of 1.2M SGD. So going back to India is not a problem. I might even get by without having to work there.

The thing is we have been living very frugally here right from the beginning and the main motivation is savings rate. We dont take taxi, or eat in expensive restaurants or go on expensive holidays.

We stay in a 3 Bedroom HDB in Jurong and current rent we are paying is 2.3K. Last year around this time we renewed it and the rent had jumped $500 a month so 1.8k to 2.3k was a big jump. Luckily we did 2 year contract and our renewal is due next september. The landlord was kind and even though at that time the rents had already jumped to like 2.6-2.8k, he allowed us 2.3k because we were there for 4 years already.

But now rents are already in the 3.8-4k range for my house, so come next renewal even if my owner is still kind I dont expect him to go below like 3.5k. So I need to factor in a $1.2k jump.

My current annual savings rate is ~70k per annum out of salary of 135k gross and last year I got a 10% hike which was due to promotion and normally hikes are much lower at 3-5%. So if my rent goes up by 15k per annum(1.2k X 12), that brings my savings down to 55k and since 2009, my avg annual savings has been 65k, so I need another 10% hike over the next 2 years bring me back on par with my trend savings rate and I hope rents stabilize around these levels. I am not sure if I will get a 10% cumulative hike over the next 2 years, but I will definitely push for it.

Congratulations !! A net worth of 1,2million SGD is amazing.. I would most likely move to indian or Malaysia if I had that kind of money today.

Out of the 22 years that I been outside India 10 years have been in Singapore and the rest in other countries including a part of that in China. I have only been 3 times to India during these 22 years and the last time I was there was in 2015.

Lack of financial knowledge and urgency, instant gratification, living it up and enjoying the moment .. lol all of these are the reasons I couldn’t save much in those years.. I started this year with the SRS account and also a Prudential plan and wanna make sure I keep it up and keep saving much I can.
Hopefully its not too late!!

Just reading about your situation, my honest opinion is that it is a blessing in disguise that you may not be able to settle in Singapore. Regardless of whether this rental situation is permanent or temporary, the fact is that at the best of times, Singapore is a difficult place to retire in. You better be well prepared or else it is pointless to be a foreigner choosing to retire here while just scraping through every month.

While I agree with Wd40 that it is never too late to learn financial literacy, I am a skeptic - I believe most people won't learn how to optimize investing. Having crossed 40, it is an uphill task to save enough to retire in Singapore.

[truthhurts1]

22 years is a long time indeed. I am surprised you didnt get PR. But why didnt you save enough money atleast? In 13 years I have made a networth of 1.2M SGD. So going back to India is not a problem. I might even get by without having to work there.

The thing is we have been living very frugally here right from the beginning and the main motivation is savings rate. We dont take taxi, or eat in expensive restaurants or go on expensive holidays.

We stay in a 3 Bedroom HDB in Jurong and current rent we are paying is 2.3K. Last year around this time we renewed it and the rent had jumped $500 a month so 1.8k to 2.3k was a big jump. Luckily we did 2 year contract and our renewal is due next september. The landlord was kind and even though at that time the rents had already jumped to like 2.6-2.8k, he allowed us 2.3k because we were there for 4 years already.

But now rents are already in the 3.8-4k range for my house, so come next renewal even if my owner is still kind I dont expect him to go below like 3.5k. So I need to factor in a $1.2k jump.

My current annual savings rate is ~70k per annum out of salary of 135k gross and last year I got a 10% hike which was due to promotion and normally hikes are much lower at 3-5%. So if my rent goes up by 15k per annum(1.2k X 12), that brings my savings down to 55k and since 2009, my avg annual savings has been 65k, so I need another 10% hike over the next 2 years bring me back on par with my trend savings rate and I hope rents stabilize around these levels. I am not sure if I will get a 10% cumulative hike over the next 2 years, but I will definitely push for it.

Congratulations !! A net worth of 1,2million SGD is amazing.. I would most likely move to indian or Malaysia if I had that kind of money today.

Out of the 22 years that I been outside India 10 years have been in Singapore and the rest in other countries including a part of that in China. I have only been 3 times to India during these 22 years and the last time I was there was in 2015.

Lack of financial knowledge and urgency, instant gratification, living it up and enjoying the moment .. lol all of these are the reasons I couldn’t save much in those years.. I started this year with the SRS account and also a Prudential plan and wanna make sure I keep it up and keep saving much I can.
Hopefully its not too late!!

Just reading about your situation, my honest opinion is that it is a blessing in disguise that you may not be able to settle in Singapore. Regardless of whether this rental situation is permanent or temporary, the fact is that at the best of times, Singapore is a difficult place to retire in. You better be well prepared or else it is pointless to be a foreigner choosing to retire here while just scraping through every month.

While I agree with Wd40 that it is never too late to learn financial literacy, I am a skeptic - I believe most people won't learn how to optimize investing. Having crossed 40, it is an uphill task to save enough to retire in Singapore.

Yes I won’t be able to most likely retire here, thats why I mentioned probably Malaysia is somewhere I will most probably go to

[smoulder]

At the moment, MM2H in west Malaysia is not going to be very easy with a requirement of 10k usd per month to qualify. A tall ask when you are retired. You might want to check out the retirement thread.

Also, what's the issue with retiring in India?

[malcontent]

The Sarawak version of MM2H was recently updated and now requires one full month stay in Sarawak each year. But they also added a sweetener, you can now work in Sarawak. I would say it is worth it for the lower hurdles to get MM2H if you don’t mind the month-long stay. Kuching isn’t all bad.

[truthhurts1]

At the moment, MM2H in west Malaysia is not going to be very easy with a requirement of 10k usd per month to qualify. A tall ask when you are retired. You might want to check out the retirement thread.

Also, what's the issue with retiring in India?

Need a lot of money to retire in India with a good standard of living. It’s completely wrong of people thinking that India is cheap, it’s not..
I don’t have a property there and I won’t be able to afford one now, it has become a situation where I have nowhere to go at this time except be in singapore for the long term, I am not thinking about retiring or retirement yet but I can buy a nice property in Malaysia at this time and it will be much cheaper than that in India ..

Also I don’t think I can live in India again a anymore, the traffic, the population , the country not being clean etc etc I get overwhelmed just by thinking about it

[smoulder]

At the moment, MM2H in west Malaysia is not going to be very easy with a requirement of 10k usd per month to qualify. A tall ask when you are retired. You might want to check out the retirement thread.

Also, what's the issue with retiring in India?

Need a lot of money to retire in India with a good standard of living. It’s completely wrong of people thinking that India is cheap, it’s not..
I don’t have a property there and I won’t be able to afford one now, it has become a situation where I have nowhere to go at this time except be in singapore for the long term, I am not thinking about retiring or retirement yet but I can buy a nice property in Malaysia at this time and it will be much cheaper than that in India ..

Also I don’t think I can live in India again a anymore, the traffic, the population , the country not being clean etc etc I get overwhelmed just by thinking about it

Fair enough.

[Wd40]

At the moment, MM2H in west Malaysia is not going to be very easy with a requirement of 10k usd per month to qualify. A tall ask when you are retired. You might want to check out the retirement thread.

Also, what's the issue with retiring in India?

Need a lot of money to retire in India with a good standard of living. It’s completely wrong of people thinking that India is cheap, it’s not..
I don’t have a property there and I won’t be able to afford one now, it has become a situation where I have nowhere to go at this time except be in singapore for the long term, I am not thinking about retiring or retirement yet but I can buy a nice property in Malaysia at this time and it will be much cheaper than that in India ..

Also I don’t think I can live in India again a anymore, the traffic, the population , the country not being clean etc etc I get overwhelmed just by thinking about it

India is very big, if you have like 1Million SGD, you can move to a new tier 2 place like Goa or Dehradun near the mountains and have an awesome life away from all the hustle and bustle of the city.

You seem to have stayed away from India for a long time. But I have been to Malaysia, Penang, Cameron, Langkawi, KL, Tioman, JB etc. To me in many aspects India is better than Malaysia. Atleast in India I am like home and dont look like a foreigner. In Malaysia, I remember going to Mersing an Indian restaurant and the local Indians there were staring at us in an unfriendly way. Even in Cameron highlands, the local Indians werent exactly friendly with us. They immediately know we are from India and I believe they have some preconceived notions about Indians.

I think outside of KL, it is very difficult to live as an Indian. I remember going to Batu Feringgi, Penang and trying to find an Indian restaurant, in the end we found a Pakistani restaurant only. The food was good, but still just felt a bit scary.

Also economy wise, Malaysia has just gone downhill after the Asian financial crisis, it just looks like a failed economy to me. While India since the year 2000 has grown into a major economy.

Purchasing power in Bangalore is better than KL:

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/c ... ala+Lumpur

[PNGMK]

Rent hikes are really hitting hard. A friend just renewed for at an increase of 38% (she bargained down from 54%). 9k now and apartments are listed in her building for 11k. While people are b...tching about the LL's there is a real issue with mortgage rates going up - some people are on variable rates and being hit hard already. Those with a lot of debt will have to sell out in a hurry which may help push market down.

[jalanjalan]

On the original question, if the goal is to live here long term, it really isn't very feasible without PR. Unless of course you are incredibly wealthy. All the expats I know are hoping to get PR, or making a plan B. I don't see it getting any easier in the next few years.

[Wd40]

Rent hikes are really hitting hard. A friend just renewed for at an increase of 38% (she bargained down from 54%). 9k now and apartments are listed in her building for 11k. While people are b...tching about the LL's there is a real issue with mortgage rates going up - some people are on variable rates and being hit hard already. Those with a lot of debt will have to sell out in a hurry which may help push market down.

I just feel we have been lucky so far to be able to live in Singapore and enjoy relatively low rents for the space we get. I have been paying like 1.8-2.3k for 1200 sqft of space in this landscarce city state. Singapore ought to have Hong Kong like property dynamics given the similar size of country, economy and being a sought after city to live in Asia.

The only problem is Singapore housing configuration is just too big and hence when the psft rents increase, the quantum is just too much for a 3 bedroom apartment and the only way out is sharing rooms.

Singapore should have done more expat friendly housing configurations, maybe like higher end dormitories so that expats can live in an enclave.